itimebomb2 Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 So strange... I actually recognized two of the interviewers today. I don't have any real relationship with either - but we definitely recognized each other. I also happened to do sort of poorly on those stations... what should i do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onamountain Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 If the interviewer knows you, don't they have to declare a conflict of interest and toss out your evaluation? Maybe the weight of your other stations would be re-distributed. Or maybe your interviewers just wouldn't do anything about it. I doubt there's anything you need to do (or can do) at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashley Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 You are supposed to say something as soon as you recognize them and then they step out and get replaced with someone else (there should be other trained leaders in the halls). If you've already interviewed then you might be out of luck. You could say some thing now but it might look bad - especially if they were your lowest scoring stations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnussey Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 Actually, I think it's fine. If you are not a great friend or relative--you should be okay. Recognizing someone isn't the same as knowing someone. I'm sure there are a number of applicants to their own "home" school can probably recognize interviewers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itimebomb2 Posted March 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 You are supposed to say something as soon as you recognize them and then they step out and get replaced with someone else (there should be other trained leaders in the halls). If you've already interviewed then you might be out of luck. You could say some thing now but it might look bad - especially if they were your lowest scoring stations... seriously? this option never occurred to me... nobody told me about it, thats for sure. plus it would mess up the whole system if a random person did a single evaluation in a set where the station is supposed to be controlled by a single evaluator... that explanation really doesnt make much sense to me - where did you gather that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnussey Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 seriously? this option never occurred to me... nobody told me about it, thats for sure. plus it would mess up the whole system if a random person did a single evaluation in a set where the station is supposed to be controlled by a single evaluator... that explanation really doesnt make much sense to me - where did you gather that? You know, I would have simply asked "I've met you before, is that a problem?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itimebomb2 Posted March 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 You know, I would have simply asked "I've met you before, is that a problem?" well they clearly recognized me, and being that they know the process way better than me, i assumed that they would mention whatever needed to be mentioned, or at least outline my options for me. as it were, nothing happened and we simply proceeded. oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 If there had been a problem, they would have immediately recused themselves. The fact that neither did speaks volumes, i.e., no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biomed1010 Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 If there had been a problem, they would have immediately recused themselves. The fact that neither did speaks volumes, i.e., no problem. I second this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notERDoc Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 Just to clarify, there is no "replacement" or stepping out on the part of interviewers - that would indeed be very confusing. However, there ARE procedures for when there are situations like this in place, but the interviewee doesn't need to do anything further Just relax - you've done all you can now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avalanche Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 You are supposed to say something as soon as you recognize them and then they step out and get replaced with someone else (there should be other trained leaders in the halls). If you've already interviewed then you might be out of luck. You could say some thing now but it might look bad - especially if they were your lowest scoring stations... As an interviewer for Mac, I can guarantee that is not the procedure. They will just make a note of it on their evaluations that they know you. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnewbie Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Wow, so Mac uses a first year med student to do a MMI station. I thought Mac would be more professional and take the admission process more seriously. I feel insulted that someone one year ahead of me would be allowed to make any kind of judgement as to my suitability for the Mac program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamP Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Wow, so Mac uses a first year med student to do a MMI station.I thought Mac would be more professional and take the admission process more seriously. I feel insulted that someone one year ahead of me would be allowed to make any kind of judgement as to my suitability for the Mac program. ahaha are you serious? if it makes you feel any better there were probably only 1 or 2 first years at your stations so they are only making a 1/10 to 1/5 judgment on you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Take a look at McMaster's manual for interviewers. You can see that there is a space on the form to declare a conflict of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notERDoc Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Wow, so Mac uses a first year med student to do a MMI station.I thought Mac would be more professional and take the admission process more seriously. I feel insulted that someone one year ahead of me would be allowed to make any kind of judgement as to my suitability for the Mac program. Sorry you feel that way, but if you are referring to me, then perhaps you would feel better that I'm not in first year? Regardless, it's too bad that you don't have more respect for your (possible) future peers. Sure hope your assumption that current first year students are "one year ahead of" you pans out. PS Feel free to pick another medical school, oldnewbie, if you feel Mac is so unprofessional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janny_jan Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 I dont understand? Who better to decide who will succeed in their school than the people who have been through or are currently in the program? A couple of my interviewers came into the lecture hall to hang out with the current Mac students where we were eating lunch so I assumed they were also students. None of them were unprofessional whatsoever during the questions. They asked great prompt qs and seemed very into it all. Its funny...my friendliest interviewer and my most "stone-faced" interviewer were both students Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryann Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Personally, I would not worry about them recognizing you. Trust the process, plus it is a mmi and there are lots of other stations. I am sure that they have procedures to deal with this as was mentioned by a student there. If you have difficulty letting of of this, then call them to give yourself peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnewbie Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 No ERdoc I was not referring to you. I am aware your not first year. By the way, I have always found your posts informative. I was referring to the post by Avalanche. No disrespect to Avlanche personally either. I respect my (potential) peers. One cannot be a peer unless they are equal. Therefore, by definition one who has control or power over another cannot be a peer. I just don't buy the notion that someone who was a mere applicant 10-12 months ago, now has been magically transformed into someone who can competently, fairly and without bias evaluate others on their potential to be good docs and successful through med school. A first year has not even successfully completed 1 year of meds. Perhaps evaluators go through training and evaluations themselves to demonstrate to Mac that they will be objective, fair and unbiased. This would be good to hear about. I know the admission system is both objective and subjective. I just want to make the system more objective and less subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnussey Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 No ERdoc I was not referring to you. I am aware your not first year. By the way, I have always found your posts informative. I was referring to the post by Avalanche. No disrespect to Avlanche personally either. I respect my (potential) peers. One cannot be a peer unless they are equal. Therefore, by definition one who has control or power over another cannot be a peer. I just don't buy the notion that someone who was a mere applicant 10-12 months ago, now has been magically transformed into someone who can competently, fairly and without bias evaluate others on their potential to be good docs and successful through med school. A first year has not even successfully completed 1 year of meds. Perhaps evaluators go through training and evaluations themselves to demonstrate to Mac that they will be objective, fair and unbiased. This would be good to hear about. I know the admission system is both objective and subjective. I just want to make the system more objective and less subjective. If that is your reasoning, then you should also object to all community members and non-medical doctors interviewing you (which, in many schools, make up a significant portion of the interviewers). Since none of them have successfully completed the first year of med school either...but wait, why is that the line? Why not cut off second or third years for not completing their terms either? Why not cut off all med students who haven't completed clerkship? You are not being tested on knowledge or physical skills; you are being tested on your personality, ethical judgment, & ability to think critically--all of these can be assessed just as well by a first year as by a second year (depends on the individual person really, not their position in life). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UTPEOPLE Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 However, picking first years to do MMIs will increase the chances that the interviewer will know the applicant. It might be better to pick a second year or third year just so that they are more likely to be truly impartial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itimebomb2 Posted March 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 I just don't buy the notion that someone who was a mere applicant 10-12 months ago, now has been magically transformed into someone who can competently, fairly and without bias evaluate others on their potential to be good docs and successful through med school. A first year has not even successfully completed 1 year of meds. Perhaps evaluators go through training and evaluations themselves to demonstrate to Mac that they will be objective, fair and unbiased. This would be good to hear about. med students are not there to judge good doctors, they are there to judge people who they would want to be in a classroom with - i.e., who they would like to be friends with! an engaging student culture is extremely important in med school. a 50-year old doctor can't judge that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avalanche Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Wow, so Mac uses a first year med student to do a MMI station.I thought Mac would be more professional and take the admission process more seriously. I feel insulted that someone one year ahead of me would be allowed to make any kind of judgement as to my suitability for the Mac program. Since you are referring to me, I feel I should reply to your concerns. Given the importance of teamwork at medical schools and especially at Mac (most of our learning is from group work), it is imperative to have medical students evaluate your suitability to be a good classmate and colleague. This is not restricted to Mac; other schools do it too. Due to the structure of our curriculum, both second and third years are less available because they are in clerkship at the time of these interviews. Speaking on a personal level, I didn't graduate from undergrad just last year, so assuming you are the average fourth year applicant, I am at least a couple of years ahead of you. Additionally, I did take the interview process very seriously and I understand, like most of my peers, just how much was riding on these interviews for the applicants. Having experienced the MMI just a year previous, I felt I was in a position to empathize with the applicants, but at the same time weed out the kind of bs answers that I heard when I was prepping for my own MMI. However, picking first years to do MMIs will increase the chances that the interviewer will know the applicant. It might be better to pick a second year or third year just so that they are more likely to be truly impartial People who had potential conflicts, ie. friends that were applying, were not supposed to interview. Hence, a lot of my colleagues, who had friends entering this application cycle because they got in after third year, were not part of the process. It is an imperfect system but they do try to make it impartial. I am sorry you feel our admission system is flawed. Feel free to express your opinion and concerns to the admissions staff! (They are actually a really friendly bunch.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notERDoc Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 No ERdoc I was not referring to you. I am aware your not first year. By the way, I have always found your posts informative. I was referring to the post by Avalanche. No disrespect to Avlanche personally either. I respect my (potential) peers. One cannot be a peer unless they are equal. Therefore, by definition one who has control or power over another cannot be a peer. I just don't buy the notion that someone who was a mere applicant 10-12 months ago, now has been magically transformed into someone who can competently, fairly and without bias evaluate others on their potential to be good docs and successful through med school. A first year has not even successfully completed 1 year of meds. Perhaps evaluators go through training and evaluations themselves to demonstrate to Mac that they will be objective, fair and unbiased. This would be good to hear about. I know the admission system is both objective and subjective. I just want to make the system more objective and less subjective. Thanks for your reply, oldnewbie. I apologize for being rather short in my last message. I understand that applying to medicine is a stressful event, but I think that Avalanche is quite correct in his/her reply. Furthermore, I encourage you to take a look at the research available on the MMI - it is a well researched interview model that is much more likely to allow suitable students into the program. In fact, it is now being used in other markets for interviewing as well (i.e. outside the medical profession), and I think there is success in that area as well. To be more specific, none of the information asked on the MMI requires particular medical knowledge, so whether or not one has done any medicine at all has no bearing on the outcome. Most interviewers can smell BS, community members look for people who they would like as physicians in the future, first year med students look for others who would be good to work with in tutorials, clerks can look for people who handle stress well, staff can look for students who seem to be intellectual competent, etcetcetc. Of course, that's a very narrow generalized example. Finally, yes, there is mandatory training for all the interviewers - the details of which I cannot discuss, of course - but it certainly covers conflicts of interest. I think you will find that frequently in medical education, you just have to trust the system. It might not feel like it's working, or seem like it could possibly work, but it almost always does. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UTPEOPLE Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Just wondering, I heard from friends that the MMI at Mac can be divided into categories: Personal, Ethical, Cooperation and acting. Does anyone know what the distribution is and if this distribution is constant through the years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Just wondering, I heard from friends that the MMI at Mac can be divided into categories: Personal, Ethical, Cooperation and acting. Does anyone know what the distribution is and if this distribution is constant through the years? The MMI stations deal with a variety of issues, including but not limited to: communication, collaboration, ethics, health policy, critical thinking, awareness of societal health issues in Canada, and personal qualities. There is no information as to the "distribution" and frankly, is not relevant as it is important to have a balanced knowledge base on all of the aforementioned topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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