white queens

[YorkMan]

Not that I mean to support sfinch's comments about kingston being all white that struck up that big controversy last year, but...

 

i had my queens interview today, and around 80+% of the first year med students were white. Whether or not it was 80, the proportion of white med students involved in the queens orientation stuff far exceeded what you would see at any other Ontario school (which I think 60+% non-white would be a fair assessment). I know I don't have proper sample sizes to be making these statements, but hey, queens takes 100 people per year, and I must have seen about 20 first years there. Of course, this could have been due to chance, or perhaps confounded by white students being more into getting involved in the orientation, but I dunno.

 

Additionally, all of the med students that I talked to were really 'laid back dudes', so to speak lol. Definitely very different then the majority of students at other schools.

 

I am not trying to start a conflict. I know that most of my responses will be an "obviously it is nothing". But is Queen's looking for a certain type of applicant - presumably not white, per se, but perhaps this more laid back attitude (which is not very coherent with the much of Asian culture, and so is perhaps more catered towards the Western culture)? I am not accusing Queens of any kind of discrimination on the basis of race, nor am I trying to start a conflict, but am I the only one who got this impression? Any thoughts?

[hopeforthebest]

Maybe it has more to do with minorities choosing to live in larger centres than Queen's deducting points if you aren't white.

 

Additionally, diversity isn't only represented by skin colour.

[Byrne]

I think Queen's is looking for the best applicants. It is no more complicated than that.

[future_doc]

I agree ^. It is random as between the choices by Queen's and the accepted applicants. I guess conspiracy theories can always be created for anything.

[ashleym]

So don't go to Queen's. I'm sure you won't be missed. You don't seem very laid back.

[carrottop]

i interviewed at queens and i saw tons of cultures other than white (lots of yellows, browns, and even some black) in the 1st year class... i also think "laid back" is an awesome quality for med students because otherwise you turn out to be UofT drones. Personality and relaxed attitude make for better doctors. And did you see that amazing video? there was a huge multicultural representation in that too!!! I dunno what youre thinking yorkman but i thought the queens 1st years were amazingly accomodating, really friendly, and believe it or not, more than 20% multicultural!!!!

 

My other 4 interviews at other ontario med schools were nowhere near the experience I had in Kingston and I will definitely choose them if I get accepted.

[golf_squared]

I really don't want to get too involved in this thread, but I think all these threads lately are completely ridiculous. I am sure there are many studies that show how bad humans are at estimating proportions, so I thought I would stick to hard numbers. I went through the class directory and counted the number of "non-whites", with a grand total of 46. Meaning there are 54 white students. And everyone is laid back and awesome. Take from these stats what you will.

[MedIn2010]

I really don't want to get too involved in this thread, but I think all these threads lately are completely ridiculous. I am sure there are many studies that show how bad humans are at estimating proportions, so I thought I would stick to hard numbers. I went through the class directory and counted the number of "non-whites", with a grand total of 46. Meaning there are 54 white students. And everyone is laid back and awesome. Take from these stats what you will.

 

I chose to quote golf_squared's post because I think a lot of these assumptions about Queen's are not based on facts.

 

I think that Queen's emphasis on history and tradition (which is very gaelic/colonial) and the fact that it is located in a smaller town rather than large city lead people to believe that there is a white culture at Queen's. I think that was probably true in past decades, but nowadays this doesn't really represent the school anymore, and the diversity at Queen's is likely increasing with every passing year.

 

Furthermore, asserting that Queen's is "mostly white" is really annoying for people who are proud to represent their race/culture at Queen's, because you are basically denying that we exist.

 

Also, if you like food like me, you will be amazed by the sheer number of awesome and diverse restaurants!

[UTPEOPLE]

i interviewed at queens and i saw tons of cultures other than white (lots of yellows, browns, and even some black) in the 1st year class... i also think "laid back" is an awesome quality for med students because otherwise you turn out to be UofT drones. Personality and relaxed attitude make for better doctors. And did you see that amazing video? there was a huge multicultural representation in that too!!! I dunno what youre thinking yorkman but i thought the queens 1st years were amazingly accomodating, really friendly, and believe it or not, more than 20% multicultural!!!!

 

My other 4 interviews at other ontario med schools were nowhere near the experience I had in Kingston and I will definitely choose them if I get accepted.

 

that's just mean....

[YorkMan]

exactly, I guarantee that 55% white is significantly greater than any other Ontario med school (except NOSM). Anyways, whatever.

 

I chose to quote golf_squared's post because I think a lot of these assumptions about Queen's are not based on facts.

 

I think that Queen's emphasis on history and tradition (which is very gaelic/colonial) and the fact that it is located in a smaller town rather than large city lead people to believe that there is a white culture at Queen's. I think that was probably true in past decades, but nowadays this doesn't really represent the school anymore, and the diversity at Queen's is likely increasing with every passing year.

 

Furthermore, asserting that Queen's is "mostly white" is really annoying for people who are proud to represent their race/culture at Queen's, because you are basically denying that we exist.

 

Also, if you like food like me, you will be amazed by the sheer number of awesome and diverse restaurants!

[future_doc]

UTPEOPLE, you mean awesome.....

[ryu9dr]

I think the OP is reading too much into this silliness

[Quid]

exactly, I guarantee that 55% white is significantly greater than any other Ontario med school (except NOSM). Anyways, whatever.

 

So it's obvious that you feel that Queen's isn't diverse enough. But I think you would be very wrong in saying that no other medical school is around 55% white. Even if you look at Canada itself, an ethnic diversity survey stated that 46% of the non-aboriginal population is of British, French, and/or Canadian ethnic backgrounds. So really, Queen's is pretty close to the same level of diversity as the entire country.

 

Also, we are the second smallest class in Ontario, next to NOSM. Obviously, we don't have the sheer numbers of "non-white" students that a much larger class would. However, this definitely doesn't mean we aren't diverse.

 

Lastly, in reference to some of your previous posts, I think you should check out what you are saying. You are concerned about diversity, but you throw out multiple stereotypes in one post. There is nothing saying that the Asian culture can't be laid back or that the Western culture is laid back. You can find examples of that anywhere, including at Queen's.

 

I think you (and anyone reading your posts), should really think about what you saw at Queen's before making any sort of decision. You happened to see 20 students who were white and laid back. I don't know what you saw at other schools, but I don't see how this is a negative thing. It's a great atmosphere for individuals of any background. I believe it would be hard to find any school that has a more collegial atmosphere than Queen's. Personally, I came here from a school that has an enormous international student population and so is very diverse. The attitude there was actually more harmful and they have had documented racial problems, whereas Queen's has a great atmosphere.

 

All in all, I wouldn't put much stock in what you saw for a few hours. Everyone at Queen's is great and it really doesn't matter what your background is. We have a diversity that matches other schools, and an atmosphere/attitude that tops any of the other schools in Ontario, probably Canada. I feel it would be a terrible mistake to simply not choose Queen's because of a brief visit, or because someone read your previous posts. and took them as the absolute truth.

[beastort]

exactly, I guarantee that 55% white is significantly greater than any other Ontario med school (except NOSM). Anyways, whatever.

 

It sounds to me like you wouldn't feel comfortable with the demographics of Queen's. And based on the snide tone of your recent posts, I think that maybe you wouldn't fit in so well here anyway. We welcome people of all races, classes, and genders, but, at least for myself, would rather not have to rub shoulders with people who complain about problems that don't exist.

[Microbiodude]

 

Additionally, all of the med students that I talked to were really 'laid back dudes', so to speak lol. Definitely very different then the majority of students at other schools.

 

I am not trying to start a conflict. I know that most of my responses will be an "obviously it is nothing". But is Queen's looking for a certain type of applicant - presumably not white, per se, but perhaps this more laid back attitude (which is not very coherent with the much of Asian culture, and so is perhaps more catered towards the Western culture)? I am not accusing Queens of any kind of discrimination on the basis of race, nor am I trying to start a conflict, but am I the only one who got this impression? Any thoughts?

 

wow, so you're saying white people don't work hard and asian people don't know how to chill out?

 

Well Yorkman, since Queen's uses academic cut-offs pre-interview and no weight on them post-interview we tend to select students who are strong academically and who have a life outside of school. For those unfamiliar with with this concept it can appear as "laid back."

 

Additionally, we realized that this may be a stressful time for interviewees and as such felt it would be beneficial to create a relaxed atmosphere to promote their success.

 

I can assure you that when push comes to shove, we push and we push hard.

 

Yours truly,

 

Non-white laid back dude

[sfinch]

I am actually going to defend whites a bit here.

 

My class at UWO is maybe 60% white, maybe more. So there are whiter schools in Ontario. I'd wager NOSM is probably 75% white, and U de Montreal, Sherbrooke, and Laval in quebec are probably 85% white.

 

Now Ontario is 77% white, maybe more. And because most patients are older elderly people, which in the >65 category is basically 90% white...I would estimate 80-85% of all patient/md interactions are with white patients in Ontario. Very different with pediatrics though...as whites tend to not like having children.

 

But basically, whites are underrepresented in the medical schools - but so many of the top students in my class and the years above are white. I can only reason that many of us asians were pressured into medicine, while the whites on average chose medicine because they wanted to do it; and hence excel at it. I was once angry when someone posted that whites scored higher than asians on all medical board and specialty exams in the us (small margin but statistically significant), but I think I understand why now.

 

Yes, the sting of white racism is harsh. But one thing I've learned this year is that reverse racism is just as bad.

[anastomosis]

exactly, I guarantee that 55% white is significantly greater than any other Ontario med school (except NOSM). Anyways, whatever.

 

What's your point?

 

Are you telling us that if you were brought into Kingston General Hospital with a severed toe and there was surgeon willing to reattach it for you whose ancestry is a mix of 55% caucasian & 45% ethnic, you would rather wait to be transported to The Scarborough Hospital to be treated by a surgeon whose ancestry is 30% caucasian & 70% ethnic but is stuck in traffic on the Don Valley Parkway? Or maybe you'd rather wait for the armadillo whose ancestry is 15% caucasian, 80% ethnic, 5% extraterrestrial, has a drinking problem, but his urine has magical healing properties.

 

Keep in mind, this is your favourite toe.

 

Go wait for the armadillo and free up the spot at Queen's for someone who really wants it.

[golf_squared]

exactly, I guarantee that 55% white is significantly greater than any other Ontario med school (except NOSM). Anyways, whatever.

 

I am pretty sure you CANNOT guarantee this. Your estimates of percentages in your first post have been shown to be way off, so why would you have any credibility estimating other schools. I assume since you are interviewing that you are not attending any medical school currently, so you really have no idea what the classes are like.

[YorkMan]

lol I kind of knew this was going to start an argument, and as such, I was really hesitant to post it. But it was just an observation I made, and like I said, there is a good chance it was due to a small sample size. But the fact is, I found the general attitude of med students at Queens to be quite different than any other school, and it seemed to me that there was a much larger proportion of white students. I just asked if anyone else found this, as it stood out. I have nothing at all against whites, or people of any ethnic background. I would say the same thing if I went to an interview somewhere, and it seemed to be largely black med students. This would seem out of the norm. From MY personal experience, a large proportion of med students at the schools I've seen have been asian... it's not racist, it's just true in my experience.

 

Now, that said, I am WHITE lol. I get the impression that people think I am a white-hating, stuck up asian student. I'm not. Anyways, I guess this thread is really going nowhere, so maybe end it?

[hopeforthebest]

What's your point?

 

Are you telling us that if you were brought into Kingston General Hospital with a severed toe and there was surgeon willing to reattach it for you whose ancestry is a mix of 55% caucasian & 45% ethnic, you would rather wait to be transported to The Scarborough Hospital to be treated by a surgeon whose ancestry is 30% caucasian & 70% ethnic but is stuck in traffic on the Don Valley Parkway? Or maybe you'd rather wait for the armadillo whose ancestry is 15% caucasian, 80% ethnic, 5% extraterrestrial, has a drinking problem, but his urine has magical healing properties.

 

Keep in mind, this is your favourite toe.

 

Go wait for the armadillo and free up the spot at Queen's for someone who really wants it.

 

o snap

 

10 chars

[golf_squared]

You cannot make statements as you did and say you don't want to cause an argument. That is like saying "no offence", before saying something offensive to someone. I think you knew full well what your post would produce.

 

The problem is is that the internet (especially forums) allows minority views to seem like the majority. Us Queen's Meds are very proud of our school and our program, and therefore are quick to discuss and defend these types of posts. I for one am sick of these posts implying some sort of racism/bias at Queens. Not to mention the statements regarding the personality most Asians have. That is definitely a statement that would warrant a heated discussion.

 

Ok, Im done. I agree this thread should end.

[ashleym]

Yorkman, I'ma let you in on a little secret:

 

If you wash Asians in hot water and touch of bleach, you can actually turn them into super-laid-back white people. Of course we do this at least once a week here at Queen's, so as not to frighten the small town patients. You know how it is.

 

I guess we tricked you!

[trymeover]

So don't go to Queen's. I'm sure you won't be missed. You don't seem very laid back.

 

Yorkman, I'ma let you in on a little secret:

 

If you wash Asians in hot water and touch of bleach, you can actually turn them into super-laid-back white people. Of course we do this at least once a week here at Queen's, so as not to frighten the small town patients. You know how it is.

 

I guess we tricked you!

 

I think you should go to your Indian doctor and check if you have ppms (permanent pms). You seem awfully cranky.

[Nobodycirclesthewagons]

I am actually going to defend whites a bit here.

 

My class at UWO is maybe 60% white, maybe more. So there are whiter schools in Ontario. I'd wager NOSM is probably 75% white, and U de Montreal, Sherbrooke, and Laval in quebec are probably 85% white.

 

Now Ontario is 77% white, maybe more. And because most patients are older elderly people, which in the >65 category is basically 90% white...I would estimate 80-85% of all patient/md interactions are with white patients in Ontario. Very different with pediatrics though...as whites tend to not like having children.

 

But basically, whites are underrepresented in the medical schools - but so many of the top students in my class and the years above are white. I can only reason that many of us asians were pressured into medicine, while the whites on average chose medicine because they wanted to do it; and hence excel at it. I was once angry when someone posted that whites scored higher than asians on all medical board and specialty exams in the us (small margin but statistically significant), but I think I understand why now.

 

Yes, the sting of white racism is harsh. But one thing I've learned this year is that reverse racism is just as bad.

 

I don't have any numbers, but seriously NOSM is only 75% white? I would've thought it 'd be 90+% with the slant towards small town Ontario.

[ashleym]

Yes, I guess I am coming off like that. I just find the premise of this thread to be somewhat ridiculous, so I responded accordingly.

 

All joking aside, the people I've met at Queen's are incredible. And yes, there is much diversity within our class, not only with respect to colour and ethnicity, but also educational backgrounds, talents, and personalities. It is amazing to see all of us come together for the same purpose and to be in an environment of mutual support and respect. If we seem laid back, it's because we like each other and are not on edge around one another, and we wanted to create a relaxing environment for the interviewees. I have high hopes for the entering class, especially after meeting many of you during the interview weekends.

 

It is a shame that threads like this get started and give people the wrong impression.