white queens

[keano16]

This yorkman person is the same one who was saying that people choose Queen's because it's the only school they get into. It's barely even worth the effort of replying to his ridiculous posts, but it's obvious that he's touched a nerve with people in our class.

 

My classmates have already refuted the fact that people only went to Queen's because it was their only option; many in our class (myself included) had multiple acceptances and chose Queen's.

 

Yorkman, the stats posted above about the racial breakdown of our class have already exposed you for the fool you are. You should just keep your mouth shut instead of hiding behind the weak "I didn't mean to offend people" excuse. You knew it was an absurd thing to post and you did it anyway.

 

I'd just as rather you didn't come to Queen's as your attitudes really don't fit with our school.

[jk.rofling]

If you're so concerned about racism in the selection process then file a human rights complaint.

[YorkMan]

lol guys I'm not concerned about any racism - I am white first of all, and secondly I know there is no racism in the selection process. I was just asking if anyone else thought that the med students seemed to be more laid back, and a larger proportion of white students than other schools. I guess not LOL

[scooby-doo]

Your post is the only thing that actually made me realize the "breakdown" of my class' skin colour.... I have never, since September, thought of any of my peers based on their skin colour. So as you can see, we love and respect each other regardless of race and we don't congregate accordingly.

[zdgryb]

I dunno guys, I think he might have a point. When I was in Kingston for my interview, I saw no non-Caucasian people! Just a bunch of really tanned dudes and some brown guy who looked like he got mauled by a bear.

 

I think that there might be bears in Kingston. I mean, not just any bears. Wild bears that are attracted to different levels of melanin. Perhaps the same bears from NOSM!

 

Now how do bears from NOSM get to Kingston?

 

Forged passports, that's how!

[trymeover]

I dunno guys, I think he might have a point. When I was in Kingston for my interview, I saw no non-Caucasian people! Just a bunch of really tanned dudes and some brown guy who looked like he got mauled by a bear.

 

I think that there might be bears in Kingston. I mean, not just any bears. Wild bears that are attracted to different levels of melanin. Perhaps the same bears from NOSM!

 

Now how do bears from NOSM get to Kingston?

 

Forged passports, that's how!

 

Dude, you need to go to your Indian doctor to consult with him on your cocaine addiction. You're really spazzin out.

[hopeforthebest]

What about homosexuals?

 

Are there gay people at queen's? Or would they be denied admission as well? I just want to be careful when I choose a school, ensuring it is as homogenous as possible. I mean, it is called "Queen's".

[dubious]

I think an objective solution to your problem is very simple. So simple that I'm surprised no one yet HERE has thought of it. I mean, you're all supposed to be the best and brightest! How about this: Someone from Queen's post a list of all the students currently in the medical program. We will all then (objectively) assign a race to each name. You know, like when you've registered for a new course and you see your professor's name for the first time and wonder what their ethnicity was. It's actually quite simple.

 

Since this is a crowd sourcing operation, multiple ethnicities may arise for the same person. These disputes will be settled by what I like to call "pissing contests" between the assigners. So how about a practice trial?

 

Geir Haarde

lol

 

And to actually answer the OP's question, no I didn't notice that there was a white majority there.

[golf_squared]

Hi guys

 

Yes, there have been too many incidents of hate crimes (too many for my liking that is), and it hits close to home (it happened to one of my best friends who is sikh).

 

 

My only problem with this statement on its own is that it give no comparison to other schools. Hate crimes occur at many other (probably all schools), including my undergrad school of Waterloo and my MSc school of Toronto, where both are very culturally diverse. Now I am NOT saying this justifies the incidents at Queens in ANY WAY. All I am saying is that the above statement makes it sound like it is exclusively a Queen's issue, when really it is a problem at many/all schools.

[A-Stark]

Without getting into the racial angle, it's worth mentioning that there are significant cultural differences between different schools for the simple reason that the country as a whole is anything but homogenous. Dal is almost certainly not very "diverse" by Ontario standards, but the Maritimes are similarly culturally distinct from Upper Canada, not least because many students from the region come from smaller cities and towns and rural areas. Insofar as being "laid back" goes, as many of us were saying at Med Games back in January, Dal may not excel at any of the sports, but we always win the party. Make what you will of that.

[meds2014]

Not that I mean to support sfinch's comments about kingston being all white that struck up that big controversy last year, but...

 

i had my queens interview today, and around 80+% of the first year med students were white. Whether or not it was 80, the proportion of white med students involved in the queens orientation stuff far exceeded what you would see at any other Ontario school (which I think 60+% non-white would be a fair assessment). I know I don't have proper sample sizes to be making these statements, but hey, queens takes 100 people per year, and I must have seen about 20 first years there. Of course, this could have been due to chance, or perhaps confounded by white students being more into getting involved in the orientation, but I dunno.

 

Additionally, all of the med students that I talked to were really 'laid back dudes', so to speak lol. Definitely very different then the majority of students at other schools.

 

I am not trying to start a conflict. I know that most of my responses will be an "obviously it is nothing". But is Queen's looking for a certain type of applicant - presumably not white, per se, but perhaps this more laid back attitude (which is not very coherent with the much of Asian culture, and so is perhaps more catered towards the Western culture)? I am not accusing Queens of any kind of discrimination on the basis of race, nor am I trying to start a conflict, but am I the only one who got this impression? Any thoughts?

 

There will ALWAYS be more white people in medical school than non-white people. ALWAYS. It's just the way it is. You have to roll with it.

[Cnussey]

There will ALWAYS be more white people in medical school than non-white people. ALWAYS. It's just the way it is. You have to roll with it.

 

Well...what is the proportion of races in Canada? I would assume class proportions are in correlation to national proportions (or similar)--not necessarily though, of course.

 

I don't think it matters if there are a significant number of diverse races or a large proportion of one race as long as they weren't chosen for that reason--if the admissions process is fair and some classes end up with more of one race than another or a large mixture, than that's just the luck of the draw

 

Not exactly on topic, but it's what came to mind since I only read it yesterday: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2758198

[meds2014]

Well...what is the proportion of races in Canada? I would assume class proportions are in correlation to national proportions (or similar)--not necessarily though, of course.

 

If we want first year med school classes to match the proportion of races in Canada, then white people should be complaining that Asians are over-represented in med school.

[Cnussey]

If we want first year med school classes to match the proportion of races in Canada, then white people should be complaining that Asians are over-represented in med school.

 

No, no...didn't say we want anything--I only want a fair admissions process. If that places me in a class full of Asians...so be it! I'm just saying I would "assume" that much of the proportion would reflect the national proportions, but of course, there are other factors to consider!

[meds2014]

Okay, I just read the entire thread. WHAT A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME.

 

To the OP: there is no conspiracy for interviewing "so many" white people. Did you put your race on OMSAS?

 

Deciding who gets in based on race is absolutely not allowed... as in it's ILLEGAL. Moreover, the fact that Queen's is a hard-cutoff school, makes it even harder to believe that they are selecting "certain type of applicants". It's strictly numbers.

[Cnussey]

Okay, I just read the entire thread. WHAT A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME.

 

To the OP: there is no conspiracy for interviewing "so many" white people. Did you put your ethnicity on OMSAS?

 

Deciding who gets in based on race is absolutely not allowed... as in it's ILLEGAL. Moreover, the fact that Queen's is a hard-cutoff school, makes it even harder to believe that they are selecting 'certain type of applicant".

 

Thank you.

[UTPEOPLE]

Maybe no discrimination at the interview stage, but perhaps at the acceptance stage. Some schools have for years been accused of enforcing racial quotas (cough* ivy leagues * cough). Are we Canadians really that different from our American counterparts?

[Cnussey]

Maybe no discrimination at the interview stage, but perhaps at the acceptance stage. Some schools have for years been accused of enforcing racial quotas (cough* ivy leagues * cough). Are we Canadians really that different from our American counterparts?

 

I don't think any discrimination (asides from affirmative action: seats for aboriginals) is significant in our schools anymore. Discrimination is everywhere and at every level (religious, sexual preference, ethnical, bloody hell--even provincial!), and it's (sadly) something that takes quite some time to "remove" and "fix", but openly and purposefully discriminating at the level we are discussing would be a danger to the schools and I doubt they would risk their images for that (at least, I certainly hope so!).

[dcgirl_44]

I don't think any discrimination (asides from affirmative action: seats for aboriginals) is significant in our schools anymore. Discrimination is everywhere and at every level (religious, sexual preference, ethnical, bloody hell--even provincial!), and it's (sadly) something that takes quite some time to "remove" and "fix", but openly and purposefully discriminating at the level we are discussing would be a danger to the schools and I doubt they would risk their images for that (at least, I certainly hope so!).

 

I've stayed out of this post but have had some experiences at Queen's to provide a counter opinion. I think the original post was misguided in terms of relating the "laid back" atmosphere to ethnicity - I attended the interviews and definitely thought the students were easy-going but don't see why an issue. The med students I met at other schools were also friendly and helped make the day enjoyable, I don't think it's the type of atmosphere where 1st/2nd years are going to be stressed out.

 

My undergrad was completed at Queen's and I also worked for admission services part-time. Discrimination has been an issue at Queen's which the administration has even acknowledged (the "Henry Report" was released a few years ago on this topic if you're interested in more information). Diversity (or the lack of it in undergrad) is something I know admission services was addressing. There was talk of preferential admission for undergrads with certain backgrounds as a potential way of solving the issue (no idea if anything came out of it) and they've started the University Experience Program to help first-generation students with the transition to school (to increase the diversity of students, not necessarily racial diversity).

 

I'm focusing on undergrad because I don't know whether it plays a factor in medical school admissions but I wouldn't be so quick to say that it's completely unlikely... there very well could be some quotas when it comes to the actual selection process.

 

My last point on discrimination at Queen's (sorry this post is jumping all over the place) is that I'm not Caucasian and did experience stereotyping/discrimination at Queen's, but also at my current university and in my social life. Unfortunately, it still is an issue. I think the only way it will be addressed is if people recognize the assumptions they make (ex: "laid-back [white] dudes", studious Asians, lazy obese people as a non-racial example) and actively ignore those those assumptions to see the person for who they are. I had a great time at Queen's but if a multicultural atmosphere like Toronto is important to you (and that's fair if it is), Kingston probably isn't the right match.

[Cnussey]

I've stayed out of this post but have had some experiences at Queen's to provide a counter opinion. I think the original post was misguided in terms of relating the "laid back" atmosphere to ethnicity - I attended the interviews and definitely thought the students were easy-going but don't see why an issue. The med students I met at other schools were also friendly and helped make the day enjoyable, I don't think it's the type of atmosphere where 1st/2nd years are going to be stressed out.

 

My undergrad was completed at Queen's and I also worked for admission services part-time. Discrimination has been an issue at Queen's which the administration has even acknowledged (the "Henry Report" was released a few years ago on this topic if you're interested in more information). Diversity (or the lack of it in undergrad) is something I know admission services was addressing. There was talk of preferential admission for undergrads with certain backgrounds as a potential way of solving the issue (no idea if anything came out of it) and they've started the University Experience Program to help first-generation students with the transition to school (to increase the diversity of students, not necessarily racial diversity).

 

I'm focusing on undergrad because I don't know whether it plays a factor in medical school admissions but I wouldn't be so quick to say that it's completely unlikely... there very well could be some quotas when it comes to the actual selection process.

 

My last point on discrimination at Queen's (sorry this post is jumping all over the place) is that I'm not Caucasian and did experience stereotyping/discrimination at Queen's, but also at my current university and in my social life. Unfortunately, it still is an issue. I think the only way it will be addressed is if people recognize the assumptions they make (ex: "laid-back [white] dudes", studious Asians, lazy obese people as a non-racial example) and actively ignore those those assumptions to see the person for who they are. I had a great time at Queen's but if a multicultural atmosphere like Toronto is important to you (and that's fair if it is), Kingston probably isn't the right match.

 

Sad to hear. I've only been to one (out of four that I've worked for a long period of time in) universities where they're still striving to achieve a non-racial stereotyping over admissions, but the circumstances were much different than the places we have here. It takes awhile, but it can be done (of course).

[123coco]

I googled something like diversity at queens medical school and found this story

 

Black students, expulsion from medical school. Perhaps the most extreme episode of racism in Queen's history came in 1918, when the Faculty of medicine caved in to prejudiced patients and expelled black students from the university. A small number of black students, mainly from the Caribbean, attended the medical school early in the century. They appear to have been happily integrated into student life, but were more tolerated than truly accepted by local patients. That tolerance turned into hostility around 1917, apparently at the instigation of wounded soldiers returned from the battlefields of Europe. Why the soldiers were so hostile is unclear, but medical officials did virtually nothing to resist their demands that they be attended by white doctors and students only. Instead, they started the process of expelling all 15 black students in the faculty ? even those who were not in years that required clinical work. Encouraged, no doubt, by the knowledge that McGill and the University of Toronto were also considering expelling black medical students, Queen's senate in 1918 supported Dean James connell's recommendation that the students be transferred to cities with larger black populations. One of the saddest parts of the whole episode is that the reactions of the black students appear to have been unrecorded in any contemporary documents. There is also no clear record of where the students ended their studies, though it is likely that many went to Dalhousie, where Connell had recommended transferring them. Black students were not permitted to return to medical studies until after the Second World War. There were never any restrictions against black students in other faculties.

 

http://qnc.queensu.ca/Encyclopedia/b.html#Blackstudents

 

Even if the ban was lifted some 60 years ago the spirit of racism is hard to eradicate.

 

Cheers!

________

Ford R. Bryan Picture

[mphem]

I googled something like diversity at queens medical school and found this story

 

Black students, expulsion from medical school. Perhaps the most extreme episode of racism in Queen's history came in 1918, when the Faculty of medicine caved in to prejudiced patients and expelled black students from the university. A small number of black students, mainly from the Caribbean, attended the medical school early in the century. They appear to have been happily integrated into student life, but were more tolerated than truly accepted by local patients. That tolerance turned into hostility around 1917, apparently at the instigation of wounded soldiers returned from the battlefields of Europe. Why the soldiers were so hostile is unclear, but medical officials did virtually nothing to resist their demands that they be attended by white doctors and students only. Instead, they started the process of expelling all 15 black students in the faculty – even those who were not in years that required clinical work. Encouraged, no doubt, by the knowledge that McGill and the University of Toronto were also considering expelling black medical students, Queen's senate in 1918 supported Dean James connell's recommendation that the students be transferred to cities with larger black populations. One of the saddest parts of the whole episode is that the reactions of the black students appear to have been unrecorded in any contemporary documents. There is also no clear record of where the students ended their studies, though it is likely that many went to Dalhousie, where Connell had recommended transferring them. Black students were not permitted to return to medical studies until after the Second World War. There were never any restrictions against black students in other faculties.

 

http://qnc.queensu.ca/Encyclopedia/b.html#Blackstudents

 

Even if the ban was lifted some 60 years ago the spirit of racism is hard to eradicate.

 

Cheers!

 

That's a truly sad story. Nothing can hide that fact.

 

Queen's, however, was the first school to graduate a black student in Canada (Robert Sutherland). And the article did mention that McGill and U of T were planning on doing the same thing to blacks back then. So racism is a problem that's not only found at Queen's.

[foregoneconclusion]

The fact that it took so long to correct that practice is disconcerting but keep in mind that this was back in 1917. Back when Canada also had concentration camps (in cities like Kingston, Halifax, Winnipeg, Montreal and Toronto). A lot has changed since then. You cannot extrapolate anything that happened that long ago into any current mindset.

[123coco]

The fact that it took so long to correct that practice is disconcerting but keep in mind that this was back in 1917. Back when Canada also had concentration camps (in cities like Kingston, Halifax, Winnipeg, Montreal and Toronto). A lot has changed since then. You cannot extrapolate anything that happened that long ago into any current mindset.

 

Indeed lots has changed since WWII. However what allows me to extrapolate that the legacy of racism maystill be present at Queens is that this institution had 60 years to apologize, and never bothered to do so. By not formally apologizing they are sending the message that their actions were acceptable. Despite the fact that the current administration had nothing to do with this past event, they still represent Queens U. When you represent a name, you become accountable for its past. This is why Canadian leaders go before Parliement to apologize to the victims of past discriminatory acts that were enacted by old political representatives( ie. Japanese, Jewish and Aboriginal communities). Once the aggressor says "I am sorry", the past will not be forgotten, however; the community can move on. Some of these victims are probably still alive and living with these memories. It's really not that hard to find old alumni of Canadian medical schools. Queens should apologize.

 

Furthermore, although UofT and McGill were also considering the option of expelling Blacks, they never did. This shows a lot of character on their behalf. Nevertheless, I do not disregard the fact that racism is pervasive throughout this country and continues to manifest itself in a covert fashion.

________

Bong

[sfinch]

This happened nearly 100 yrs ago to non-nationals who were adults at the time. They were all men as well. They would all be >113 today - I think there are only a handful of men in the world that age alive right now - if even any. No one from that era directly affected by this is still alive. The students got to graduate from larger medical schools in cities with larger black populations - wouldn't be surprised if deep down they actually thought it a blessing.

 

It was indeed terrible and disgusting. But pre 1967 - Canada followed what was then a clear world mindset - whites=best. But what do you want today's whites to do about it? Keep groveling for forgiveness?