white queens

[future_doc]

Agreed, the way of thinking of UTPEOPLE evokes and deserves reponses.

[Dongzhuo]

Then wouldnt have the 2/3 of seats that were given to these students to promote greater Inuit healthcare have been wasted because more qualified people were passed over? If the policy demanded a return of service contract, wouldnt this problem be avoided and 100% of the seats intended to improve inuit health actually do so?

 

If people who get into med school over others because of an intent to address underrepresented needs, there better be consequences if you go back on that intent once you actually are in med school. That's like enjoying a service and then not paying for it, or promising a waiter that if I get really exceptional service, I will tip him handsomely, then not doing so, because TECHNICALLY, there is no law compelling me to tip.

 

YES. Agree completely. A return of service contract would seem to be very effective.

[UTPEOPLE]

Henry Ford propogated this kind of sick stuff. Every group has criminals, prostitutes, unethical people and this crosses all ethnicities, races, religions. So what else is new? You are victim to an unhealthy attitude and views that you absorbed from anti-semite that you are unconsciously spreading in this thread. Please let's all play together nicely and speak respectfully about each other!

 

Peace, we are all one.

 

silly, I meant that some asian sterotypes reflect the old jewish sterotypes, not that I support the old jewish sterotypes

[future_doc]

Compulsory service is neither required nor acceptable, socially or politically. And if I were aboriginal, I would be insulted at the suggestion.

[UTPEOPLE]

How so? Aboriginal people have to get approval from their band leader indicating that they are indeed a band member. The only other group that I'm aware of who is eligible for A.A are blacks in nova scotia who were here before Canada was Canada. (but I don't know if it applies to med school)

 

no I'm not picking on you UTPEOPLE...just your way of thinking evokes a response.

 

I didnt mean in Canada, I meant in America, where I heard that your ethnicity is actually a field that you have to pick on the application, with the intent that African Americans get some preferential treatment because of past racism

[UTPEOPLE]

Compulsory service is neither required nor acceptable, socially or politically. And if I were aboriginal, I would be insulted at the suggestion.

 

If compulsory service or even implied compulsory service is not necessary, then what would be the purpose of the URM designation? If not to address a need, then wouldnt URM just be diversity for diversity's sake? That's not bad, but in that case, why focus on race or area? Why not do it so that we divide it based on social class (I.E. if you are low income, you automatically get a bonus to your score, because you might be more willing to serve low-income patients in the future?) I think that being from a low income household holds at least as much value in terms of perspective when compared with being from a rural/aboriginal background, yet we do not have a systemic way of giving these people an advantage.

[Cnussey]

A lot of people will try to play the time card: it happened such a long time ago, get over it! Or why should I have to be penalized for something my ancestors did! But in reality we'll know we're all equal when statistics say so. Until the stats indicate that Aboriginals are doing as well the wrest of the Canadian population, affirmative action is still necessary.

 

My perspective at least.

 

UTPEOPLE, if you're genuinely interested in becoming a well rounded physician, UofT actually has an excellent course regarding aboriginal health in Canada. I believe it's at the 4th year level (no hard pre-req), and it's being offered by the pharmacy and some other department.

 

Isn't that what I said? Perhaps I'm missing you're point...are you just elaborating upon my point? B/c I think affirmative action is good, but there will come a point when it is no longer necessary--and it needs to be cut off at that point.

[123coco]

Then wouldnt have the 2/3 of seats that were given to these students to promote greater Inuit healthcare have been wasted because more qualified people were passed over? If the policy demanded a return of service contract, wouldnt this problem be avoided and 100% of the seats intended to improve inuit health actually do so?

 

Well you see, the beauty about it is that even those who don't return to their reserves are way more likely to serve off-reserve aboriginals. And they are more likely to settle in urban areas where reserves are close by. I live in a community with 30-40% of aboriginals. Unfortunately the town is kind of segregated. Racism isn't directed at the visible minorities but at Aboriginals. I've been in walk-in clinics where you can cut the hostility with a knife when an aboriginal person comes in to get medical attention.

 

The Canadian government has tried to regulate where doctors practice, but that idea didn't even make it through door. Doctors do not want to be dictated where they can and cannot practice.

________

Honda of Canada Manufacturing history

[future_doc]

silly, I meant that some asian sterotypes reflect the old jewish sterotypes, not that I support the old jewish sterotypes

 

I reread what you wrote and acept what you say.

 

And anyhow, even if my interpretation had been correct, I would still have played with you as with honey, we can make friends!

[123coco]

Isn't that what I said? Perhaps I'm missing you're point...are you just elaborating upon my point? B/c I think affirmative action is good, but there will come a point when it is no longer necessary--and it needs to be cut off at that point.

 

just elaborating....I need to get off this forum and do a stincken research ethics proposal

________

MFLB

[UTPEOPLE]

Well you see, the beauty about it is that even those who don't return to their reserves are way more likely to serve off-reserve aboriginals. And they are more likely to settle in urban areas where reserves are close by. I live in a community with 30-40% of aboriginals. Unfortunately the town is kind of segregated. Racism isn't directed at the visible minorities but at Aboriginals. I've been in walk-in clinics where you can cut the hostility with a knife when an aboriginal person comes in to get medical attention.

 

The Canadian government has tried to regulate where doctors practice, but that idea didn't even make it through door. Doctors do not want to be dictated where they can and cannot practice.

 

Hmm... I didnt consider that possibility, that there could be aboriginal dominated towns all over. But still, doctors who depended on the aboriginal designation to make it into med school in the first place (as opposed to just being awesome enough to do it on their own) could at least be mandated to work in a predefined set of towns where aboriginal health is particularly important. If the Canadian government has failed to regulate where doctors practice, that speaks more to the power of the CMA than what is actually the right thing to do. Bottom line is that I feel any physicians who depended (as in not a shot without it) on the aboriginal designation to get into med school is on some level letting down the expections of the initial adcom if they dont practice in a town with significant aboriginal need, and perhaps this is a bit weird, but I also feel the same about In province /research applicants. If a major reason that you got in was because of in province status or a mandate to become a clinician scientist, then barring some huge emergency that closes those doors, not practicing in province or as a clinician scientist would once again be a mild form of betrayal.

 

It shouldnt be acceptable to say... hmm, not what I expected... lets try something different

[UTPEOPLE]

I reread what you wrote and acept what you say.

 

And anyhow, even if my interpretation had been correct, I would still have played with you as with honey, we can make friends!

 

but seriously, I hadn't given it much thought before today, but I just realized that in some way, asians have filled that old niche, which is kind of sad....

[Cnussey]

just elaborating....I need to get off this forum and do a stincken research ethics proposal

 

Oh good, I thought I was misunderstood. Yeah, I'm procrastinating too. You can easily tell when I'm writing a paper, the number of posts I make climb exponentially.

[future_doc]

but seriously, I hadn't given it much thought before today, but I just realized that in some way, asians have filled that old niche, which is kind of sad....

 

If this is the case, it is very sad indeed. Amongst the kinds of racism that exists, are what I call institutional and social racism, which then intersect along the way. Institutional racism is today illegal. So, it goes underground in subtle ways. A person who is appropriate for an employment position is given an 'aceptable' excuse even though it is not the truth, same with seeking rentals and so forth. I would hope that there is absolutely no racism in the final selection of those chosen for acceptance. However, I advised persons on this forum whose answers/essays I edited to stay away from ethnic identification if possible, just in case, prior to interview selection.

 

As we become a more enlightened society and with a more accepting younger generation, there is hope for the future and for all of us, no matter at what stage we are at, it is currently better than the past. When people discriminate they do it best from a power base and from far away, so they do not come into contact with those against whom they have prejudice. We can fight prejudice as an identified group and individually. As a group, collectively we support each other, give business to each other and slowly build up a strong economic base. And we can collectively fight overtly discrimination through the courts and newspapers, societies against discrimination. And, of course, individually, we do so one person at a time. A person who is prejudice against a Jew or someone who is Chinese will go to see a recognized physician who is Jeiwsh or Chinese, and gradually thrtough positive contact, negative stereotypes will disappear and this will ripple on his/her family.

 

It is, indeed a slow process, and any intolerance is very sad. One person can change the world! And that person is you, me and others like us of good will! We are moving in the right direction even if not at the proper speed.

[UTPEOPLE]

If this is the case, it is very sad indeed. Amongst the kinds of racism that exists, are what I call institutional and social racism, which then intersect along the way. Institutional racism is today illegal. So, it goes underground in subtle ways. A person who is appropriate for an employment position is given an 'aceptable' excuse even though it is not the truth, same with seeking rentals and so forth. I would hope that there is absolutely no racism in the final selection of those chosen for acceptance. However, I advised persons on this forum whose answers/essays I edited to stay away from ethnic identification if possible, just in case, prior to interview selection.

 

As we become a more enlightened society and with a more accepting younger generation, there is hope for the future and for all of us, no matter at what stage we are at, it is currently better than the past. When people discriminate they do it best from a power base and from far away, so they do not come into contact with those against whom they have prejudice. We can fight prejudice as an identified group and individually. As a group, collectively we support each other, give business to each other and slowly build up a strong economic base. And we can collectively fight overtly discrimination through the courts and newspapers, societies against discrimination. And, of course, individually, we do so one person at a time. A person who is prejudice against a Jew or someone who is Chinese will go to see a recognized physician who is Jeiwsh or Chinese, and gradually thrtough positive contact, negative stereotypes will disappear and this will ripple on his/her family.

 

It is, indeed a slow process, and any intolerance is very sad. One person can change the world! And that person is you, me and others like us of good will! We are moving in the right direction even if not at the proper speed.

 

I hope you're right.

[future_doc]

If compulsory service or even implied compulsory service is not necessary, then what would be the purpose of the URM designation? If not to address a need, then wouldnt URM just be diversity for diversity's sake? That's not bad, but in that case, why focus on race or area? Why not do it so that we divide it based on social class (I.E. if you are low income, you automatically get a bonus to your score, because you might be more willing to serve low-income patients in the future?) I think that being from a low income household holds at least as much value in terms of perspective when compared with being from a rural/aboriginal background, yet we do not have a systemic way of giving these people an advantage.

 

Aboriginal society has been deliberately destroyed over a century or more and any kind of redress can never bring them back to their former glory of the glory they truly deserve. The only special designation for med school is for aboriginals and it is so very tiny. If a bright aboriginal who is capable of becoming a doctor and he can jump the line somewhat, this is wonderful in my view, in and of itself regarldess of where the aboriginal decides to practice. Sooner or latURM er, as role model, educator, physician, social activist or whosoever, this person will contribute to his/her own society asnd make it a better place. URM has been a designation really in USA. In Canada, asians are simply another identifiable group, certainly not URM or entitled to any privileges, evertything is supposed to be on merit. Same for any other identificalbe minority group other than aboriginal.

 

I can accept your suggestion re social class, points for lower income people. This will only occur if like minded people of our generation collectively go for this kind of change when we are in positions of power to make changes.

Perhaps points for agreeing to a contract of limited duration in a rural underserved area or require every graduating student to spend 2-3 years in designated underserved areas.

[future_doc]

You can easily tell when I'm writing a paper, the number of posts I make climb exponentially.

 

Healthier than climbing walls. and safer too.

[sfinch]

Henry Ford propogated this kind of sick stuff. Every group has criminals, prostitutes, unethical people and this crosses all ethnicities, races, religions. So what else is new? You are victim to an unhealthy attitude and views that you absorbed from anti-semite that you are unconsciously spreading in this thread. Please let's all play together nicely and speak respectfully about each other!

 

Peace, we are all one.

 

F_D: He was using that as an example. It was true - many people viewed jews this way, even if untrue. How is he being anti-semitic in pointing out an old wrong? That is a vicious personal attack that was unprovoked.

 

F_D - I am going to say what a lot of people on this site think. And I say this knowing many people do not like me either. You are a complete fool. You sound like a child with your posts. You have attacked others, often being a total hypocrite. Your knowledge of the admissions process is often horribly lacking, with you commenting on things you know nothing about. Your encouragement to others is often childlike. You add very little value to this board at all. And I think you are way too immature for medicine at the moment.

 

Sure I'm a bit of a jerk on this at times - but that's who I am - at least my online persona. You are a phony.

[UTPEOPLE]

F_D: He was using that as an example. It was true - many people viewed jews this way, even if untrue. How is he being anti-semitic in pointing out an old wrong? That is a vicious personal attack that was unprovoked.

 

F_D - I am going to say what a lot of people on this site think. And I say this knowing many people do not like me either. You are a complete fool. You sound like a child with your posts. You have attacked others, often being a total hypocrite. Your knowledge of the admissions process is often horribly lacking, with you commenting on things you know nothing about. Your encouragement to others is often childlike. You add very little value to this board at all. And I think you are way too immature for medicine at the moment.

 

Sure I'm a bit of a jerk on this at times - but that's who I am - at least my online persona. You are a phony.

Its okay sfinch... he was just joking. I dont think hes a native english speaker so the way i wrote my initial post was misunderstood, thats all

[future_doc]

Yes, it was an example and we discussed this and much more. We kissed and made up quickly, it certainly was not a vicious personal attack or, indeed, an attack at all, nor was it perceived as such. Please feel free to contact the member concerned to obtain your own personal confirmation so that you may inform yourself of the reality.

 

I would hope that I do not lose my childlike quality and I forgive you for your harsh words, just don't ever treat patients that way, please.

 

You are certainly entitled to your opinions, although what counts for now is what the adcoms think. If they feel I am not ready this cycle, e.g., being too immature, or, if I am accepted despite your views, I will be the first to know. And as I shall have tried my best, I will be a happy camper either way. I think if you tried to become more positive as a person, it will make you a happier individual, however, differences amongst people is what makes the world go round.

 

As to my adding value to this board, there are those who would take exception to what you say. As for me, I will continue to be myself and make my contributions for better or worse. And I will mature further over time. And you shall continue too to be yourself. You arer not a jerk nor am I a phony. But this is your perception and therefore, your perception is your reality, not the reality of others. I wish you well.

[UTPEOPLE]

Yes, it was an example and we discussed this and much more. We kissed and made up quickly, it certainly was not a vicious personal attack or, indeed, an attack at all, nor was it perceived as such. Please feel free to contact the member concerned to obtain your own personal confirmation so that you may inform yourself of the reality.

 

I hope that this was meant metaphorically... Dont think my gf would appreciate me kissing another man... unless future doc is actually a really hot girl?

[medicant]

future doc is female...have you guys not realized that yet?

[pm09]

F_D: He was using that as an example. It was true - many people viewed jews this way, even if untrue. How is he being anti-semitic in pointing out an old wrong? That is a vicious personal attack that was unprovoked.

 

F_D - I am going to say what a lot of people on this site think. And I say this knowing many people do not like me either. You are a complete fool. You sound like a child with your posts. You have attacked others, often being a total hypocrite. Your knowledge of the admissions process is often horribly lacking, with you commenting on things you know nothing about. Your encouragement to others is often childlike. You add very little value to this board at all. And I think you are way too immature for medicine at the moment.

 

Sure I'm a bit of a jerk on this at times - but that's who I am - at least my online persona. You are a phony.

 

what a prick

 

she adds much more value to this board than you do

 

even when posting on an internet forum, you are thinking about your future bottom line... that's why you keep spreading BS lies about how there are too many doctors and all that ****

[rmorelan]

future doc is female...have you guys not realized that yet?

 

amazing how long that took to sink in on the boards

[rmorelan]

F_D: He was using that as an example. It was true - many people viewed jews this way, even if untrue. How is he being anti-semitic in pointing out an old wrong? That is a vicious personal attack that was unprovoked.

 

F_D - I am going to say what a lot of people on this site think. And I say this knowing many people do not like me either. You are a complete fool. You sound like a child with your posts. You have attacked others, often being a total hypocrite. Your knowledge of the admissions process is often horribly lacking, with you commenting on things you know nothing about. Your encouragement to others is often childlike. You add very little value to this board at all. And I think you are way too immature for medicine at the moment.

 

Sure I'm a bit of a jerk on this at times - but that's who I am - at least my online persona. You are a phony.

 

Not to wade into the battlefield (you and future doc do have a historical feud going) but .... so your online persona is somehow different than your real persona? and you are saying future_doc is a phony?

 

Sorry I couldn't resist