Class size cuts at UofA

[sfinch]

I have heard from people I know in Edmonton that the cuts planned in Calgary will also occur in Edmonton - though the extent is yet unknown.

 

Probably 189 to 150ish or so.

 

Just surprised no thread on the UofA site.

[durock21]

Ya I'd like to say I didn't see that one coming...But I guess we have to wait until this is all validated by admissions. Anybody want to venture a guess as to when they'll officially tell us all?

[skp1187]

Ya I'd like to say I didn't see that one coming...But I guess we have to wait until this is all validated by admissions. Anybody want to venture a guess as to when they'll officially tell us all?

 

May 13th......

[Tree]

My apologies if I offend anyone, but I imagine the faculty has more pressing concerns to deal with than to let applicants know the reduction number at this time. Letting applicants know the reduction in class size does not change the admissions process, as those top candidates will still be offered admission first. Do you know what I mean.

 

My guess would be you will all know the admitting number on May 14, when the offers of admissions roll out.

[sv3]

My apologies if I offend anyone, but I imagine the faculty has more pressing concerns to deal with than to let applicants know the reduction number at this time. Letting applicants know the reduction in class size does not change the admissions process, as those top candidates will still be offered admission first. Do you know what I mean.

 

My guess would be you will all know the admitting number on May 14, when the offers of admissions roll out.

 

Let's hope its not official yet bc they are still trying to find ways to find some money. Perhaps this reduces the size of the cuts. But i can't see them telling us anytime soon.

 

here are some files that may be of interest to understand what the entire univeristy is facing

 

http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/provo...-feb-17-10.pdf

 

http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/vpfin...026%202010.pdf

[sv3]

I have heard from people I know in Edmonton that the cuts planned in Calgary will also occur in Edmonton - though the extent is yet unknown.

 

Probably 189 to 150ish or so.

 

Just surprised no thread on the UofA site.

 

not sure where the numbers are from? UC rumors have it at 130-5. Maybe UA wont be as bad but i wouldnt bank on it

[Jochi1543]

I have heard from people I know in Edmonton that the cuts planned in Calgary will also occur in Edmonton - though the extent is yet unknown.

 

Probably 189 to 150ish or so.

 

Just surprised no thread on the UofA site.

 

We just got an e-mail about it this afternoon. There were no mentions of numbers, just "the class size will undoubtedly be reduced." It's thanks to the slashes in AFHMR funding by the government. It also means nothing good for our tuition.

 

*sigh*

[Wut?]

We just got an e-mail about it this afternoon. There were no mentions of numbers, just "the class size will undoubtedly be reduced." It's thanks to the slashes in AFHMR funding by the government. It also means nothing good for our tuition.

 

*sigh*

 

The issue isn't directly related to AHFMR funding. That's another aspect of the problem, though.

 

Also, SFinch, I wouldn't peg an exact number on it since there are a lot of factors that haven't yet come into play that will be factored into the decision on the final 2014 class sizes. Needless to say, however classes at the U of C and U of A will not remain at the levels that were seen for the 2008-2009 admission cycle.

[sv3]

the certainty of the Dean's words is deafening.

 

PS (why are UC and UA sending out these emails to med students? Just wondering.....they've gotto realize pre-meds will get the word. So, is there some sort of urgency to tell the current med students about the cuts? Seems odd to tell one group and not another.....especially when both groups talk)

[boodog]

the certainty of the Dean's words is deafening.

 

PS (why are UC and UA sending out these emails to med students? Just wondering.....they've gotto realize pre-meds will get the word. So, is there some sort of urgency to tell the current med students about the cuts? Seems odd to tell one group and not another.....especially when both groups talk)

 

the email from our Dean:

 

April 1st, 2010

Dear Medical Students,

Re: Urgent Request for support of Tuition Market Modifiers

We would like to thank all of you for your engagement in our ongoing discussions centered on market modifiers and we have appreciated your candor and willingness to keep an open mind during these challenging times. Unfortunately we continue to receive discouraging news since the Alberta budget was announced February 9 (significantly reduced funding for the expanded number of medical students, further reduction in budgetary support for the university resulting in a significant budget reduction for all Faculties). More urgently, yesterday’s announcement of the Alberta Heritage Foundation of Medical Research competition results (for which the percentage of funded researchers was the lowest in AHFMR history) and the lack of a clear transition plan from AET and Alberta Innovates-Health Solutions (reducing our ability to bridge current faculty who are dependent on AHFMR for salary support) has put us in a very serious financial situation. Please keep in mind that this is all in addition to the $60M gap between revenue and expenditures for the university this coming academic year which will result in a 5% budget reduction for all programs and departments.

The decision around “market modifiers” will be announced by AET ministry on April 7th. The Faculty needs your help and support. We recognize and understand the concerns that were raised by market modifier proposals but ask you to understand that the current financial situation in which we find ourselves. The additional impact from yesterday’s AHFMR announcement leaves us in an extremely difficult financial situation. There is no question that the number of medical students to be enrolled into this coming year will be reduced and there will be implications to your education. We urge you to consider the bigger picture of the long term impact of reducing medical class size as well as the impacts on your medical education and the training for future generations. Please note that agreements around grand-parenting (deferring for the currently enrolled students) for any market modifier (currently proposed as $3400, not including the COSSS fee) will be honoured.

Neither the critical nature of these choices nor the urgency required in making them in so short a time is totally within our control. We do appreciate your time and thought with this. We met with the MSA executive earlier today and they have agreed to collate all your responses and continue to be your spokespeople in this issue. We ask that you support the market modifiers and give your consent to the MSA to write a letter of support to Minister Doug Horner as soon as possible prior to April 7th. If you have any questions, please contact your class rep. Again, much thanks for your consideration.

With best regards,

 

Philip N. Baker, FRCOG FMEDSCI

Dean, Faculty of Medicine & Dentistry

Professor of Obstetrics & Gynecology

University of Alberta

[boodog]

I just wanted to add that my personal opinion is that this whole thing is mismanaged somewhere along the line...probably by multiple factors: I blame the University, as well as the government.

[sdp12]

Well folks, since at least some level of cuts seems fairly likely, I think it's time to kick up a pre-emptive stink. Even though any seat cuts will largely be due to reduced funding from the Ministry of Advanced Education and Technology, if we can frame this as a health issue and target the Health Ministry (an area where the current government is extremely sensitive to negative public opinion--just look at the bucketloads of extra cash in the 2010 Health and Wellness budget), I think that there could be some positive outcomes. After all, Zwozdesky has been reversing unpopular health decisions left and right since taking office.

 

Here are some of the relevant folks. (I would suggest writing to Zwoz, Ed, or Horner and then cc the rest). Remember, one or two letters doesn't make much of a difference, but a whole bunch of letters will--after all, MLAs are obliged to answer each and every one. Increased funding would benefit current medical students as well, so I encourage both applicants and students to take the time to make your concerns known.

 

Gene Zwozdesky (Minister of Health and Wellness): edmonton.millcreek@assembly.ab.ca or health.minister@gov.ab.ca

 

Doug Horner (Minister of Advanced Education and Technology): sprucegrovesturgeon.stalbert@assembly.ab.ca

 

Ed Stelmach (Premier): fortsaskatchewan.vegreville@assembly.ab.ca or premier@gov.ab.ca

 

Dr. Raj Sherman (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Health and Wellness and current ER doc): edmonton.meadowlark@assembly.ab.ca

 

Fred Horne (Co-Chair for the Minister's Advisory Committee on Health): edmonton.rutherford@assembly.ab.ca

 

Dr. David Swann (Leader of the Opposition and former family doc): calgary.mountainview@assembly.ab.ca

 

Brian Mason (Leader of the NDP): edmonton.highlandsnorwood@assembly.ab.ca

 

David Eggen (Friends of Medicare): info@friendsofmedicare.org

[collins]

Well folks, since at least some level of cuts seems fairly likely, I think it's time to kick up a pre-emptive stink. Even though any seat cuts will largely be due to reduced funding from the Ministry of Advanced Education and Technology, if we can frame this as a health issue and target the Health Ministry (an area where the current government is extremely sensitive to negative public opinion--just look at the bucketloads of extra cash in the 2010 Health and Wellness budget), I think that there could be some positive outcomes. After all, Zwozdesky has been reversing unpopular health decisions left and right since taking office.

 

Here are some of the relevant folks. (I would suggest writing to Zwoz, Ed, or Horner and then cc the rest). Remember, one or two letters doesn't make much of a difference, but a whole bunch of letters will--after all, MLAs are obliged to answer each and every one. Increased funding would benefit current medical students as well, so I encourage both applicants and students to take the time to make your concerns known.

 

Gene Zwozdesky (Minister of Health and Wellness): edmonton.millcreek@assembly.ab.ca or health.minister@gov.ab.ca

 

Doug Horner (Minister of Advanced Education and Technology): sprucegrovesturgeon.stalbert@assembly.ab.ca

 

Ed Stelmach (Premier): fortsaskatchewan.vegreville@assembly.ab.ca or premier@gov.ab.ca

 

Dr. Raj Sherman (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Health and Wellness and current ER doc): edmonton.meadowlark@assembly.ab.ca

 

Fred Horne (Co-Chair for the Minister's Advisory Committee on Health): edmonton.rutherford@assembly.ab.ca

 

Dr. David Swann (Leader of the Opposition and former family doc): calgary.mountainview@assembly.ab.ca

 

Brian Mason (Leader of the NDP): edmonton.highlandsnorwood@assembly.ab.ca

 

David Eggen (Friends of Medicare): info@friendsofmedicare.org

 

Thanks for posting this sdp12, I think we should organize some kind of letter/email writing session. Is anyone interested?

 

Also, we should get the calgary group involved in this too.

[sv3]

Well folks, since at least some level of cuts seems fairly likely, I think it's time to kick up a pre-emptive stink. Even though any seat cuts will largely be due to reduced funding from the Ministry of Advanced Education and Technology, if we can frame this as a health issue and target the Health Ministry (an area where the current government is extremely sensitive to negative public opinion--just look at the bucketloads of extra cash in the 2010 Health and Wellness budget), I think that there could be some positive outcomes. After all, Zwozdesky has been reversing unpopular health decisions left and right since taking office.

 

Here are some of the relevant folks. (I would suggest writing to Zwoz, Ed, or Horner and then cc the rest). Remember, one or two letters doesn't make much of a difference, but a whole bunch of letters will--after all, MLAs are obliged to answer each and every one. Increased funding would benefit current medical students as well, so I encourage both applicants and students to take the time to make your concerns known.

 

Gene Zwozdesky (Minister of Health and Wellness): edmonton.millcreek@assembly.ab.ca or health.minister@gov.ab.ca

 

Doug Horner (Minister of Advanced Education and Technology): sprucegrovesturgeon.stalbert@assembly.ab.ca

 

Ed Stelmach (Premier): fortsaskatchewan.vegreville@assembly.ab.ca or premier@gov.ab.ca

 

Dr. Raj Sherman (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Health and Wellness and current ER doc): edmonton.meadowlark@assembly.ab.ca

 

Fred Horne (Co-Chair for the Minister's Advisory Committee on Health): edmonton.rutherford@assembly.ab.ca

 

Dr. David Swann (Leader of the Opposition and former family doc): calgary.mountainview@assembly.ab.ca

 

Brian Mason (Leader of the NDP): edmonton.highlandsnorwood@assembly.ab.ca

 

David Eggen (Friends of Medicare): info@friendsofmedicare.org

 

I think even more important are media contacts. The emails are definitely a great idea ( I will send out an email monday morning so its on the top of their pile), but the media loves stories like this, where they can expose the governments actions (compared to their promises). I suggest writing and calling local media contacts.

[sv3]

I just wanted to add that my personal opinion is that this whole thing is mismanaged somewhere along the line...probably by multiple factors: I blame the University, as well as the government.

 

Definitely. The government obviously is at fault, but there should have been some better planning on the university's part. You can't always bank on "best case" scenarios. Regardless, now the problem falls on us (and many other parties).

 

Sadly, even if the market modifiers are approved at requested levels, no one can be sure where those funds will go towards.

[sv3]

Thanks for posting this sdp12, I think we should organize some kind of letter/email writing session. Is anyone interested?

 

Also, we should get the calgary group involved in this too.

 

not sure its necessary. the more emails they get the better. i would just take the shotgun approach here and fire away. Plus, there's not much time to really organize this i think with the easter holiday and decisions being made as far as money next week

[skp1187]

I think even more important are media contacts. The emails are definitely a great idea ( I will send out an email monday morning so its on the top of their pile), but the media loves stories like this, where they can expose the governments actions (compared to their promises). I suggest writing and calling local media contacts.

 

Here is a link to CTV Calgary: http://calgary.ctv.ca/contactUs/

Here is a link to CTV Edmonton: http://edmonton.ctv.ca/contactUs/

 

Global news: http://www.globaltvcalgary.com/contactus/index.html

 

Alberta Primetime: http://www.albertaprimetime.com/Interactive.aspx

 

City TV: http://www.citytv.com/calgary/contactus

[cardiomegaly]

I would caution you to going to the media when you are not fully aware of all the factors in this problem. As a class and as a student body, we look up to our leaders (class reps, MSA execs etc) to represent us and discuss with the faculty. If you want to do something about it, stick to emailing your government representatives etc. Considering that the current medical students aren't fully informed about all angles of the situation, I don't think it's up to the premeds to go "raise awareness" based on some incomplete emails and word of mouth.

 

Let the deans, the university staff and the student representatives do their job and we'll do our best to keep you up to date.

[collins]

I would caution you to going to the media when you are not fully aware of all the factors in this problem. As a class and as a student body, we look up to our leaders (class reps, MSA execs etc) to represent us and discuss with the faculty. If you want to do something about it, stick to emailing your government representatives etc. Considering that the current medical students aren't fully informed about all angles of the situation, I don't think it's up to the premeds to go "raise awareness" based on some incomplete emails and word of mouth.

 

Let the deans, the university staff and the student representatives do their job and we'll do our best to keep you up to date.

 

Caution implies potentially negative consequences, what would those be?

[yeeha]

Here's an interesting thought:

 

The oldest baby boomers reach age 60 in 2006.

 

The average retirement age of physicians in Canada was 70.8 years.

 

By 2016, we will start to see a large portion of the baby boomer generation of physicians and specialists start to retire.

 

The government needs to prepare for this mass retirement by educating and training more doctors now.

 

If they cut the number of seats, I can foresee the government and the public in a mass panic later...

[sv3]

I would caution you to going to the media when you are not fully aware of all the factors in this problem. As a class and as a student body, we look up to our leaders (class reps, MSA execs etc) to represent us and discuss with the faculty. If you want to do something about it, stick to emailing your government representatives etc. Considering that the current medical students aren't fully informed about all angles of the situation, I don't think it's up to the premeds to go "raise awareness" based on some incomplete emails and word of mouth.

 

Let the deans, the university staff and the student representatives do their job and we'll do our best to keep you up to date.

 

Hey i see your point and i don't mean any offense, but no one in the university is exactly keeping us up to date right? We're getting little drops of info here and there and thats only thanks to current med students. Premeds also dont have class reps and MSA execs to look out for us (I'm not saying we should of course, we are just applicants, but just referring to your points). The media could investigate and get all the angles - thats their job. Our emails to govt officials may not make it past their secretaries who screen emails. We dont have the resources, contacts, or sources to know the whole story simply b/c no one has communicated it to us. I don't see the downside to raising more awareness and honestly, you should know that if you don't stand up for yourself, you can't expect someone else to (unless your part of a team or have leaders like you do, but alas, premeds don't). I rather take it upon myself to do things rather than sit back and hope someone else is looking out for me. Anyway, I just think premeds are totally within their right to talk to the media if they wish. Afterall, we along with other parties will be affected by this.

[sv3]

Here's an interesting thought:

 

The oldest baby boomers reach age 60 in 2006.

 

The average retirement age of physicians in Canada was 70.8 years.

 

By 2016, we will start to see a large portion of the baby boomer generation of physicians and specialists start to retire.

 

The government needs to prepare for this mass retirement by educating and training more doctors now.

 

If they cut the number of seats, I can foresee the government and the public in a mass panic later...

 

LOL your train of thought requires caring about the long term. You think anyone in office is going to care about 2016?

[yeeha]

LOL your train of thought requires caring about the long term. You think anyone in office is going to care about 2016?

 

LOL! Very true. It seems like no one in the government stops to think about the future and to plan ahead. But, the public will undoubtedly be concerned and this needs to be brought to their attention because they might not know what it currently going on- then, the government will be forced to care.

[sv3]

LOL! Very true. It seems like no one in the government stops to think about the future and to plan ahead. But, the public will undoubtedly be concerned and this needs to be brought to their attention because they might not know what it currently going on- then, the government will be forced to care.

 

 

well ya, thats why i said the media thing. just putting pressure on officials is the key. Its not like there really is not money, they just aren't giving it up. Honestly, 50 million isn't alot when it comes to provincial budgets. It just isn't. For a univeristy it is a big deal - which is the sad thing, b/c a drop in the bucket for the govt causes massive effects at the university level.

[yeeha]

well ya, thats why i said the media thing. just putting pressure on officials is the key. Its not like there really is not money, they just aren't giving it up. Honestly, 50 million isn't alot when it comes to provincial budgets. It just isn't. For a univeristy it is a big deal - which is the sad thing, b/c a drop in the bucket for the govt causes massive effects at the university level.

 

 

This could all be very well true, but I am personaly unsure of how provincial budgeting and the Alberta government works... so, I won't even attempt to comment on it. I do understand the concept of people entering their senior years and wanting to retire. And, I know that the baby boomers represent a large percent of the population and once they start retiring, there's going to be a shortage of professionals to take their space -- especially if the government starts cutting the seats right now...