CARMS LOR- to see or not to see?

[meshuga3]

Hi, just wondering what you all have done as far as seeing or not seeing your CARMS letters of reference before they're sent off. CARMS officially discourages it, and I can appreciate that a referee who knows you won't be able to check up on them might be more candid in their letter- but if you don't look at the letters you send, it's impossible to tell which best support your application. So I'm at a loss. Any advice?

[entkeener]

Some advice that was given to me, which I found to be useful:

-Spontaneously offered letters are usually good letters

-When asking for a letter, ask, "Do you feel like you got to know me well enough to write me a strong and positive letter of reference?"

 

Some referees will write anyone a letter. By phrasing your request that way, you give the referee two 'outs.' You don't want a crappy letter, and you don't want a letter that indicates quite clearly that they know nothing about you.

 

I hope that is helpful.

 

Side note: With respect to who to ask for letters of reference, anyone you ask will give you different advice. I think this speaks to the fact that noone really knows what any specific reviewer will make of any given letter. I think it is safe to say that you should have AT LEAST one letter from someone in the field to which you are applying.

[Lactic Folly]

I did not view any of my letters, as I gave my referees prepaid envelopes to mail their letters to CaRMS directly. I'm not sure how you could view your letters, unless you instructed your referees to return the letters to you before sending to CaRMS (which might come across a bit odd), or they offered to let you view the letters.

 

As with many elements of the medical school and residency admissions processes, it's a judgment call on your part as to who (out of your potential referees) is going to be most supportive. To some extent, I think that this is easier in CaRMS, as often you will be approaching previous rotation supervisors who have given you written evaluations, and thus you already have an idea of what they will write about you.

 

Therefore, although others may differ, I don't think you need to (or should expect to) see your letters to have an idea of which ones will be strong. There will be always be some uncertainty, but that is what the entire CaRMS process is made of..

[entkeener]

Lactic Folly makes a good point. Don't forget about the value of evaluations in determining who to ask.

 

For a few of my letters, I waited until my evaluation was returned to ask. If you get a solid eval, you can ask something like "Thanks for the great eval! Would you feel comfortable writing me a reference that would reflect what you wrote on the evaluation?" If they say yes, use it!

[peachy]

I agree with entkeener -- make sure you always phrase your question so that they are agreeing to write you a STRONG letter. Staff know Carms well, and they are asked all the time. Most of them are pretty clear about letting you know. I found that staff who really supported me were likely to say something like "Yes, it will definitely be a strong letter".

 

I ended up seeing two of my references. One because the staff emailed me a copy even though I hadn't requested it, and the other because the staff requested that I write a draft for him. I have no idea whether it had any effect on the applications process.

 

If my evaluation was done on paper, I made sure to keep a copy, and then sent it to my references along with my CV and the Xpresspost envelope when I was requesting letters. That way they can remember the glowing comments they wrote at the time. ;-)

[Lactic Folly]

..If you write a draft for your referee, I don't consider that as having seen your letter as you have no idea how they might have changed it before sending it in to CaRMS..

[entkeener]

The XPresspost comment from Peachy is an important tip.

 

A few of my letters were offered early, so I didn't bother with XPresspost. That meant that I couldn't track the letters. Sometimes referees will wait until late to write your letter or encounter technical problems with the online reference submission system. You won't want to bother them and the ability to track the letter through Xpresspost will be greatly appreciated as the deadline approaches.