are fellow medstudents relationship-killers?

[UTPEOPLE]

once again, you're comparing apples and oranges.

 

human children can live just fine with support from only their mothers. It is evolutionarily profitable for men to just impregnate and ditch.

 

PLUS, since we have evolved internal gestation, parental certainty also comes into play. What I mean is, while women are 100% sure that their children are theirs, men can never 100% be sure.

 

When the penguins are born, they stay huddled into one of their parents constantly while the other one is off getting fish. If the male didn't do this, the young would DIE. Thus, it is advantage to stick with the young until it is old enough to be on its own.

 

You are just on fire with the analogies, today.

 

Umm... single parent households? Single parent-raised children are underfed, and less looked after, and tend to have greater psychological problems/stress. Given links between stress and other chronic disease, I wouldnt be surprised if they had poorer physical health as well (given the malnourishment and living in poverty). they are also less supervisoed because of inability to afford childcare + the need to work alot.

[leap87]

Umm... single parent households? Single parent-raised children are underfed, and less looked after, and tend to have greater psychological problems/stress. Given links between stress and other chronic disease, I wouldnt be surprised if they had poorer physical health as well (given the malnourishment and living in poverty). they are also less supervisoed because of inability to afford childcare + the need to work alot.

 

You just called both Mike and me this. How can you go around making claims such as these?! Give me proof to believe you because as far as I'm concerned, I'm THANKFUL my mom and dad divorced when I was young. I turned out quite good (and so did Mike), unlike for example my stepbrother who had BOTH parents and he dropped out of school and is into drugs.

 

I'm refraining from swearing right now.

[UTPEOPLE]

You just called both Mike and me this. How can you go around making claims such as these?! Give me proof to believe you because as far as I'm concerned, I'm THANKFUL my mom and dad divorced when I was young. I turned out quite good (and so did Mike), unlike for example my stepbrother who had BOTH parents and he dropped out of school and is into drugs.

 

I'm refraining from swearing right now.

 

I'm sorry if I offended you, but if you and mike made it out for the better, then you guys were very lucky, but there is some evidence that in general, single parent household children are worse off.

 

Just like how I survived for years below the poverty line, but I am never going to agree with the statement that living in poverty are not worse off than those who had adequate resources growing up. For one thing, the social stigma itself is crippling.

 

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/297615/single_parent_households_how_does_it_pg2.html?cat=25

 

Child abuse and violence in single-parent families: Parent absence and economic deprivation.

 

http://www.joe.org/joe/1986winter/rb2.php

 

but now I can understand where mike is coming from when he says that children can do fine with just their mothers. It is definitely possible. However, just like how I survived for years just fine below the poverty line without resorting to financial aid, I am never going to agree with the statement that living in poverty are not disadvantaged compared with those who had adequate resources growing up. Nor will I consider social security to be a waste of money.

 

I guess I should have qualified those statements more.

[sfinch]

Umm... single parent households? Single parent-raised children are underfed, and less looked after, and tend to have greater psychological problems/stress. Given links between stress and other chronic disease, I wouldnt be surprised if they had poorer physical health as well (given the malnourishment and living in poverty). they are also less supervisoed because of inability to afford childcare + the need to work alot.

 

This fcker makes me look like a saint. What a jerk.

[HBP]

This fcker makes me look like a saint. What a jerk.

 

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[UTPEOPLE]

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

In a vision, St. sfinch descends from the heavens and spoke onto the 3.3

GPA med applicant: "Thou shalt not enter med school.

[mrnursing]

If he cheats, then he's not the kind of person you want to spend the rest of your life with anyways.

[leap87]

I'm sorry if I offended you, but if you and mike made it out for the better, then you guys were very lucky, but there is some evidence that in general, single parent household children are worse off.

 

Just like how I survived for years below the poverty line, but I am never going to agree with the statement that living in poverty are not worse off than those who had adequate resources growing up. For one thing, the social stigma itself is crippling.

 

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/297615/single_parent_households_how_does_it_pg2.html?cat=25

 

Child abuse and violence in single-parent families: Parent absence and economic deprivation.

 

http://www.joe.org/joe/1986winter/rb2.php

 

but now I can understand where mike is coming from when he says that children can do fine with just their mothers. It is definitely possible. However, just like how I survived for years just fine below the poverty line without resorting to financial aid, I am never going to agree with the statement that living in poverty are not disadvantaged compared with those who had adequate resources growing up. Nor will I consider social security to be a waste of money.

 

I guess I should have qualified those statements more.

 

 

The findings by Najman et al. (1997) suggested that families headed by single women who remained single for the study duration (five to six years), in addition to dyadic families without conflict, represented one of the lowest rates of children with behavioural problems, compared to women with partner changes during the study period. In addition, children of families that reported having parental conflict represented the highest rate of behavioural problems, in which male children in comparison to female children had a higher rate. Najman et al. (1997) concluded that children in single woman-headed families are not at a greater risk of developing behavioural problems compared with children in dyadic stable families. Rather, they suggest that child behavioural problems are associated with parental conflict and maternal change of partner (Najman et al.,1997).

 

Najman et al.’s (1997) findings are consistent with those of Silverstein and Auerbach (1999), who concluded that children do not necessarily need a biological mother or father for psychological well-being and positive outcomes.Rather, they suggest that if a child has at least one caregiver with whom they share a positive relationship, most likely positive child well-being will result. This view is supported by Featherstone (2001), who suggested that child well-being is influenced by positive relationships with parents and the absence of familial conflict; familial conflict being the significant factor associated with negative psychological outcomes. In a longitudinal study focused on assessing the effects of maternal relationships on child behaviour of mainly disadvantaged single woman-headed families, Ackerman et al. (2002) concluded that adverse child behaviour is associated with maternal instability in intimate relationships.

 

It pretty much all boils down to how a single mother/single father handles an upbringing of their children. A child will not be underfed or less looked after if parenting skills are there and if a parent, when they're with the kid, gives their undivided attention to the child. My mom used to work all the time and I barely ever saw her, but when I did, I had all of her attention and I grew up to be a very healthy individual. We NEVER lived in poverty, because my mom was a hard-worker and because she was a hard worker I also learned to be that and strive for the better.

 

On the other hand, I have met PLENTY of children who have BOTH parents, who are BUSY all the time and don't spend ANY time with their children = bad parenting skills. Just because you're in poverty doesn't mean you will end up messed up. If I were really to go into an extreme with an example, Leonardo Di Caprio grew up in a ****ty neighbourhood, his parents were divorced, his mother worked all the time and you know what? He's doing just fine (last time I checked).

 

P.S. You're a jerk. Simply put.

[deeman101]

This fcker makes me look like a saint. What a jerk.

 

I have to sig that

[UTPEOPLE]

It pretty much all boils down to how a single mother/single father handles an upbringing of their children. A child will not be underfed or less looked after if parenting skills are there and if a parent, when they're with the kid, gives their undivided attention to the child. My mom used to work all the time and I barely ever saw her, but when I did, I had all of her attention and I grew up to be a very healthy individual. We NEVER lived in poverty, because my mom was a hard-worker and because she was a hard worker I also learned to be that and strive for the better.

 

On the other hand, I have met PLENTY of children who have BOTH parents, who are BUSY all the time and don't spend ANY time with their children = bad parenting skills. Just because you're in poverty doesn't mean you will end up messed up. If I were really to go into an extreme with an example, Leonardo Di Caprio grew up in a ****ty neighbourhood, his parents were divorced, his mother worked all the time and you know what? He's doing just fine (last time I checked).

 

oh definitely, the parenting skills definitely matter lots. For myself also, one of the reasons that I made it through my childhood fine is also because of my parent's love. But I always got the feeling that on average, people in single parent household do have a disadvantage because the burden normally divided between two people is thrust upon only one (plus the lower income and all those issues). Obviously, if the parent is really good and works hard, they can make it work, but is that the norm?

 

By the way, do you feel a little bit better now? I dont like making people angry... sowee...

[deeman101]

oh definitely, the parenting skills definitely matter lots. For myself also, one of the reasons that I made it through my childhood fine is also because of my parent's love. But I always got the feeling that on average, people in single parent household do have a disadvantage because the burden normally divided between two people is thrust upon only one (plus the lower income and all those issues). Obviously, if the parent is really good and works hard, they can make it work, but is that the norm?

 

By the way, do you feel a little bit better now? I dont like making people angry... sowee...

 

You are over-estimating your intuitive skillz

[JeraJaclyn]

You are over-estimating your intuitive skillz

 

Well to be fair, I think UT people is right that on average people from single parent households do tend to be at a disadvantage. It is no secret that single mothers are at a greater risk of being on welfare and below the poverty line.

 

This doesn't mean, however, that we can apply information from a trend to an individual (and this can be said for almost all statistics). Just because someone is a single parent doesn't mean this causes the child to be messed up, there are so many factors involved with good parenting and there are so many socioeconomic factors that are woven together that can put someone at risk.

[leap87]

oh definitely, the parenting skills definitely matter lots. For myself also, one of the reasons that I made it through my childhood fine is also because of my parent's love. But I always got the feeling that on average, people in single parent household do have a disadvantage because the burden normally divided between two people is thrust upon only one (plus the lower income and all those issues). Obviously, if the parent is really good and works hard, they can make it work, but is that the norm?

 

By the way, do you feel a little bit better now? I dont like making people angry... sowee...

 

Well if some men (and some women) got their head out of the f*cking gutter, then the kids in single parent households would be fine - ie shared custody. But because some people think it's okay to have a kid and then not really give a **** after that, that's where the problem stems. In my humble opinion, those people shouldn't have kids.

 

The reason why there are so many homeless children in Toronto is because of these parents who selfishly only think about themselves. They don't think about the repercussions of having children and that in fact it takes a lot of work and money to raise a kid. If you're incapable of taking care of yourself, then why the f*ck would you have a kid? It's plain and simple. Today, we have condoms and birth control so if you are not ready to have a kid, f*cking use it.

 

It's irresponsibility + laziness + "I don't care" attitude of the parents that makes some children left emotionally and psychologically damaged. There are TONS of families (both parents) that are living in poverty today.

 

Edit: And what I find with some parents is that they think that buying their children tons of stuff and giving them all of the freedom in the world is called "love". I wish I could break it to them that no money in this world could fill in the gap in a child's heart which was left by his/her parents not giving them the love they needed.

[UTPEOPLE]

Well if some men (and some women) got their head out of the f*cking gutter, then the kids in single parent households would be fine - ie shared custody. But because some people think it's okay to have a kid and then not really give a **** after that, that's where the problem stems. In my humble opinion, those people shouldn't have kids.

 

The reason why there are so many homeless children in Toronto is because of these parents who selfishly only think about themselves. They don't think about the repercussions of having children and that in fact it takes a lot of work and money to raise a kid. If you're incapable of taking care of yourself, then why the f*ck would you have a kid? It's plain and simple. Today, we have condoms and birth control so if you are not ready to have a kid, f*cking use it.

 

It's irresponsibility + laziness + "I don't care" attitude of the parents that makes some children left emotionally and psychologically damaged. There are TONS of families (both parents) that are living in poverty today.

 

If it clarifies anything, when I originally posted, this was the sentiment that I was reacting against in newfie's post. By saying that children are just fine with only their mothers, I took that to mean that his opinion was that fathers could just impregnate a woman and just walk off, since the kids would be "just fine". But now i see the reasoning behind why he wrote that, so once again, sowwee for making everybody mad...

[Leon]

This fcker makes me look like a saint. What a jerk.

 

LOLOL

 

 

 

[deeman101]

Well to be fair, I think UT people is right that on average people from single parent households do tend to be at a disadvantage. It is no secret that single mothers are at a greater risk of being on welfare and below the poverty line.

 

This doesn't mean, however, that we can apply information from a trend to an individual (and this can be said for almost all statistics). Just because someone is a single parent doesn't mean this causes the child to be messed up, there are so many factors involved with good parenting and there are so many socioeconomic factors that are woven together that can put someone at risk.

 

I have a problem more with these "on average people from..." kind of lines. Those kind of statements piss me off cause "on average" you don't know jack ****, cause you're one person who (hopefully) has not even reached the half-way point in your life and, notwithstanding that, you have a limited perspective of the world. All you can go off is anecdotal evidence, so stop trying to make what you're saying seem like a FACT of the universe.

 

Even if studies are thrown out here IMO they just raise awareness to possible trends. I still don't take them as absolute truths, they only support a theory. Oh how much faith we have in our science.

 

 

Sorry not ripping into you in specific. Theres like 4 people doing this currently right now too. hehe

[Jochi1543]

For one thing, the social stigma itself is crippling.

 

What social stigma?

[Leon]

What social stigma?

 

Single mothers are looked upon very unfavorably in some countries. It was the case, unfortunately, in Sri Lanka when I was there. There are general opinions like, "she must have done something 'wrong' if her husband left her with the child" etc.....

 

complete carp but it's almost impossible to change such ideologies. One of many reasons why I'm glad I left.

[JeraJaclyn]

I have a problem more with these "on average people from..." kind of lines. Those kind of statements piss me off cause "on average" you don't know jack ****, cause you're one person who (hopefully) has not even reached the half-way point in your life and, notwithstanding that, you have a limited perspective of the world. All you can go off is anecdotal evidence, so stop trying to make what you're saying seem like a FACT of the universe.

 

Even if studies are thrown out here IMO they just raise awareness to possible trends. I still don't take them as absolute truths, they only support a theory. Oh how much faith we have in our science.

 

 

Sorry not ripping into you in specific. Theres like 4 people doing this currently right now too. hehe

 

 

What on earth are you talking about? I didn't use any anecdotal evidence. I said what the trends are, and said that it isn't easy to go from information from trends to what will happen on on individual basis. Why do you seem so pissed off?

[deeman101]

What on earth are you talking about? I didn't use any anecdotal evidence. I said what the trends are, and said that it isn't easy to go from information from trends to what will happen on on individual basis. Why do you seem so pissed off?

 

Where are these trends you speak of coming from?

 

 

EDIT: I'm not pissed more than I usually am to read stuff like that. But I'm more tired of letting it pass.

 

EDIT2: I was more pissed at this line: "Well to be fair, I think UT people is right that on average people from single parent households do tend to be at a disadvantage." I agree with your second paragraph.

[leap87]

I haven't seen one person quote a peer-reviewed journal article supporting their claims in this thread. I've managed to find 2 quotes which connect to my argument in one of my posts, since I don't have time right now to search through thousands upon thousands pubmed articles.

 

Well to be fair, I think UT people is right that on average people from single parent households do tend to be at a disadvantage. It is no secret that single mothers are at a greater risk of being on welfare and below the poverty line.

 

Why are you solely picking on single mothers when there are single fathers out there too?

[deeman101]

I haven't seen one person quote a peer-reviewed journal article supporting their claims in this thread. I've managed to find 2 quotes which connect to my argument in one of my posts, since I don't have time right now to search through thousands upon thousands pubmed articles.

 

 

 

Why are you solely picking on single mothers when there are single fathers out there too?

 

Cause what they're actually quoting is their unfounded opinions.

[JeraJaclyn]

Where are these trends you speak of coming from?

 

Here's one article out of thousands that you can find online through google scholar.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/585557

 

Also, it is well known that single mothers are more likely to be below the poverty line. Again, this doesn't mean that you shouldn't be a single mother, it is just a trend that should be considered but not taken as some sort of evidence that single parenthood is bad.

 

Again let me emphasize that just because trends exist doesn't mean we can apply them to individuals! We know that children of single parents are more likely to suffer from stress, but that doesn't mean that being a single parent will mean you will have stressed out kids! There is much more more going on here.

 

In the same way, we know that on average men are physically stronger than women, but that doesn't mean that if you are a woman you are automatically weaker than a man. There is variability and many exceptions, so with all things we have to be careful going from statistics to talking about an individual.

 

(Just an aside for all you medicine-keeners, this same dilemma happens with treating your patients. You might see in the literature that someone has on average 4 years left to live. How do you communicate this to your patient? He is an individual and therefore may die tomorrow or may die in 10 years. The average survival doesn't mean that much because there is such a huge variability).

[JeraJaclyn]

 

Why are you solely picking on single mothers when there are single fathers out there too?

 

Most of the literature out there is about single mothers because they are more common and most likely to be disadvantaged (because of less job security, unequal wages). There have been very few studies about single fathers, but I would certainly like to see them.

[JeraJaclyn]

This is where the disadvantage stems from:

 

People in single parent families are at a greater risk of poverty (or maybe people in poverty are at a greater risk of being single parents).

 

Living in poverty is clearly a disadvantage for a child.

 

I'm not saying AT ALL that being a single parent CAUSES poverty, I'm just saying that in a population, single parents are at risk of poverty. It's purely statistics.

 

I support single-parenthood, it is a great choice for many.