Stop the nurses before it's too late

[UTPEOPLE]

s u m m a r y

 

and some have respect thrust upon them jk

[mrnursing]

What are the qualifications to work in this medical clinic?

 

[Madz25]

a lot of angry people here!

 

just a few points...

 

1) i agree that it is disrespectful towards family physicians giving other healthcare workers the same working scope. if i could achieve the same goal without going to school for more years and having way more debt... then why wouldnt i choose the 'more direct' route??? kind of a slap in the face to FP's me thinks.

 

2) ian wong made this point a while ago and i totally agree with it...having less qualified individuals doing the same scope of practice as doctors leads to (more than average) unnecessary testing and referrals. wait lists are already so long and although increasing NP's scope of practice may look like a money-saving strategy, more referrals and unnecessary tests will ultimately add to the cost of health care.

 

and yes...i didn't capitalize my sentences. sorry.

[mrnursing]

a lot of angry people here!

 

just a few points...

 

1) i agree that it is disrespectful towards family physicians giving other healthcare workers the same working scope. if i could achieve the same goal without going to school for more years and having way more debt... then why wouldnt i choose the 'more direct' route??? kind of a slap in the face to FP's me thinks.

 

2) ian wong made this point a while ago and i totally agree with it...having less qualified individuals doing the same scope of practice as doctors leads to (more than average) unnecessary testing and referrals. wait lists are already so long and although increasing NP's scope of practice may look like a money-saving strategy, more referrals and unnecessary tests will ultimately add to the cost of health care.

 

and yes...i didn't capitalize my sentences. sorry.

 

I totally disagree with you. Look at the bolded letters in the quote.

[Madz25]

I totally disagree with you. Look at the bolded letters in the quote.

 

what do you disagree with exactly?

[mrnursing]

what do you disagree with exactly?

 

That you didn't use capitalized letters.

[Madz25]

That you didn't use capitalized letters.

 

LOL!

i said i didnt capitalize my sentences....which i didnt

[mrnursing]

LOL!

i said i didnt capitalize my sentences....which i didnt

 

So true.

 

got PWNED

[seeking1]

Regarding all posts, UTPEOPLE is getting kind of annoying, frankly. dreamer isn't far from the chopping block either. Guys, chill, its the internet, not real life.

 

Everyone is panicking over nothing. Ian is right. Med schools are not changing their standards of care, even if some states and possibly Ontario are. When all is said and done, the monetary value of stuff is what matters to the government, hence the whole pharmacy debacle recently. If people choose to go to a NP and reduced health is the result, it will reflect in an obvious manner.

 

This reminds me of the time that I learned that my mom took my bro to see a naturopath once (I am not saying an NP and a naturo are equal ). I was all like . Shes pretty cool with homeopaths and "natural" sh*te, but even she saw that any care he would receive from this person would likely be without merit.

[seeking1]

p.s. I value and respect nurses and the role they play in health care, they do a lot and I've been alongside them to see it. But lets not pretend they encompass diagnostic skills, because they don't. Remember, doctors once upon a time tried to do both the job of the modern doctor and nurse, and look at the system that led us to.

[iraqattaq]

I was wondering what everyones take is on the non-nurse related items in Bill 179 regarding Hygienists and stronger than OTC dispensing, Physiotherapists and X-rays, Dietitians and glucose monitoring.

 

Bill 179 also authorizes dental hygienists to prescribe, dispense, and compound drugs that are designated in the regulations. With greater independence to perform some of the previously restricted acts, dental hygienists will have the option of working in new practice settings including long-term care facilities, schools, mobile clinics and remote and rural locations.

 

http://www.mcmillan.ca/Upload/Publication/Bill179_ReceivesRoyalAssent_0110.pdf

[hippie]

I was wondering what everyones take is on the non-nurse related items in Bill 179 regarding Hygienists and stronger than OTC dispensing, Physiotherapists and X-rays, Dietitians and glucose monitoring.

 

Bill 179 also authorizes dental hygienists to prescribe, dispense, and compound drugs that are designated in the regulations. With greater independence to perform some of the previously restricted acts, dental hygienists will have the option of working in new practice settings including long-term care facilities, schools, mobile clinics and remote and rural locations.

 

http://www.mcmillan.ca/Upload/Publication/Bill179_ReceivesRoyalAssent_0110.pdf

 

Another attempt by leeches-dr-wannabes to shortcut the need to go to medical school in order to become a physician.

 

Contact your MP now!

[fourtytwo]

Another attempt by leeches-dr-wannabes to shortcut the need to go to medical school in order to become a physician.

 

Contact your MP now!

 

Things like this are the reason I have a hand print conspicuously the same size as my own hand permanently spread across my face.

 

I'm going to go ahead and assume you've never actually worked in health care. If you had, you'd know that these changes are, for the most part, relatively good changes and are not taken lightly.

 

I'm an RT, and these changes will, to a limited extent, affect how I practice. For RTs, the idea is to allow us to order procedures and prescribe substances that are in our wheelhouse -- which means substances administered by inhalation. There's serious discussion of what will be included under that umbrella. Oxygen is going to be included, but there's some discussion of adding other respiratory meds (B2-agonists, ACh-antagonists, inhaled corticosteroids, NSAADs, surfactant, and inhaled antiinfective meds). Again, these discussions are not taken lightly. There is nothing that could delegitimize the profession quicker than a handful of RTs recklessly prescribing and administering these drugs, or new RTs not knowing the ins-and-outs of these substances. And -- you may not believe this -- we actually care about patient safety, too.

 

However, there's a significant upside for both docs and RTs. For RTs, we know that, other than Respirologists, MDs are the worst about overprescribing B2-agonists. In a lot of cases, ER docs and IM docs on the floors will give out ventolin to anything that even remotely sounds like a wheeze. I'm sure there are some docs who spray ventolin on their bike when they get a squeaky wheel. For the MDs, it would probably be nice for them to not have to write a script for the drugs they know RTs understand.

 

Med students always seem to think that everyone wants to be more like doctors; the fact is we just want to streamline our jobs and become more effective health care practitioners.

 

Feel free to disagree after you've worked in health care for a while.

[leviathan]

I'm an RT, and these changes will, to a limited extent, affect how I practice. For RTs, the idea is to allow us to order procedures and prescribe substances that are in our wheelhouse -- which means substances administered by inhalation. There's serious discussion of what will be included under that umbrella. Oxygen is going to be included, but there's some discussion of adding other respiratory meds (B2-agonists, ACh-antagonists, inhaled corticosteroids, NSAADs, surfactant, and inhaled antiinfective meds). Again, these discussions are not taken lightly. There is nothing that could delegitimize the profession quicker than a handful of RTs recklessly prescribing and administering these drugs, or new RTs not knowing the ins-and-outs of these substances. And -- you may not believe this -- we actually care about patient safety, too.

I think that's great for RTs, but this is significantly different than allowing a bunch of NPs, and far worse, NDs, to play the role of an MD. As a former RT student who switched to medical school, I have tremendous respect for the education and expertise that is part of working in your profession. I feel like the training I did in respiratory and cardiovascular physio was pretty similar to what I did in medical school, if not even more involved in certain areas. However, the concerns with the legislation changes is akin to allowing RTs to work as critical care physicians simply because they work in the ICU.

 

Oh, and not to poke fun at some minor mistakes you've made, but I'm not sure what NSAADs are and the drugs you give are inhaled muscarinic receptor antagonists, not ACh antagonists. Now those mistakes are clinically insignificant, but what other misunderstandings do midlevel providers have? And which of those deficits may be potentially dangerous to patient care if they have their responsibilities expanded without an equivalent expansion in education?

[fourtytwo]

NSAADs are non-steroidal anti-asthma drugs -- mast-cell stablizers like cromolyn sodium, and anti-leukotrienes like montelukast. I would be incredibly surprised if any of these meds made it into our scope given that they have no place in acute care and are mostly PO, but there's talk.

 

Anyway, I wasn't responding to the discussion as a whole. I was only responding to the idea that any health care profession which was looking to expand its scope was stocked with MD-wannabes.

 

The ND/NP discussion is above my pay grade.

[Guest success100]

It's not new...

In some states in U.S.,nurses have even started to use the title "Dr."...

Doctor means to teach and doesn't apply to Medical Doctors only,in fact,anyone who had a doctorate level of studies,even in letters,philo or religions can call himself a Doctor.

 

Don't worry,it will be the same style as Psychologists vs Psychiatrists...

Psychologists got the right to prescribe in like 19 states in the U.S.,still,Psychiatrists got no salary decrease and are STILL living large on their salaries.

 

Yes,nurses want more power,it doesn't mean the MD will work less and get less money(most people are thinking about money when it comes down to Nurses vs MD...)

It just means they will have the right to do some more procedures without making the MD start *****ing about it.It will make the job a lot easier for the MDs as well.

[Mandibular]

Yes, anyone with an advanced degree should have the right to use the "dr" title. However, it should be prohibited in a medical establishment in order to avoid confusion on behalf of patients. yes, people know the difference between a dentist, a pharmacist, and an MD, but in a hospital, only MDs should use the title.

Thank god I come from a more conservative province where **** like this won't fly!

In order for a complex machine (health care system) to run smoothly, everyone should assume the roles given to them and avoid any grey zones as much as possible

[WaveSense]

It's not new...

In some states in U.S.,nurses have even started to use the title "Dr."...

Doctor means to teach and doesn't apply to Medical Doctors only,in fact,anyone who had a doctorate level of studies,even in letters,philo or religions can call himself a Doctor.

 

Don't worry,it will be the same style as Psychologists vs Psychiatrists...

Psychologists got the right to prescribe in like 19 states in the U.S.,still,Psychiatrists got no salary decrease and are STILL living large on their salaries.

 

Yes,nurses want more power,it doesn't mean the MD will work less and get less money(most people are thinking about money when it comes down to Nurses vs MD...)

It just means they will have the right to do some more procedures without making the MD start *****ing about it.It will make the job a lot easier for the MDs as well.

 

As a PhD we were specifically told NOT to refer to ourselves as 'doctors' when we saw patients as to not confuse them. So while Dr. is a title for any doctorate holding person, in a clinical setting, it should IMO only be used by someone with a MD (or equiv) unless they know exactly what degrees and qualifications you have. People call dentists doctors, but they know that they're dentists.. people call their podiatrists doctors but they again know that they're podiatrists... if nurses start wanting themselves to be called doctors in a hospital or clinic, people won't know that they're nurses with a doctorate degree. Wanting to take care of patients is one thing, wanting to be called a doctor is kinda weird.

[Guest success100]

As a PhD we were specifically told NOT to refer to ourselves as 'doctors' when we saw patients as to not confuse them. So while Dr. is a title for any doctorate holding person, in a clinical setting, it should IMO only be used by someone with a MD (or equiv) unless they know exactly what degrees and qualifications you have. People call dentists doctors, but they know that they're dentists.. people call their podiatrists doctors but they again know that they're podiatrists... if nurses start wanting themselves to be called doctors in a hospital or clinic, people won't know that they're nurses with a doctorate degree. Wanting to take care of patients is one thing, wanting to be called a doctor is kinda weird.

 

Well,it is your right to use the Dr. title,as long as you put your level in your name,it's fine.

Ex: Dr.A.Robert,Ph.D.

 

When you put the Ph.D. on the name,the person is aware,people are not that stupid you know?It's easy to make the difference between a research scientist and a Physician.

[Starling]

Well,it is your right to use the Dr. title,as long as you put your level in your name,it's fine.

Ex:Dr.A.Robert,Ph.D.

 

When you put the Ph.D. on the name,the person is aware,people are not that stupid you know?It's easy to make the different between a research scientist and a Physician.

 

That's all fine and well when it's in writing, but I don't imagine anyone's going around saying, "hello, I'm Dr. A. Robert, PhD in botany".

 

If you're calling yourself Dr. in a clinical setting, you should have an MD. I mean, otherwise a med student with a PhD could be introducing themselves as "Dr.", and that would get pretty confusing.

[Guest success100]

That's all fine and well when it's in writing, but I don't imagine anyone's going around saying, "hello, I'm Dr. A. Robert, PhD in botany".

 

If you're calling yourself Dr. in a clinical setting, you should have an MD. I mean, otherwise a med student with a PhD could be introducing themselves as "Dr.", and that would get pretty confusing.

 

Well,i guess the Ph.D. holder won't run into patients and tell them "HAIII IM A PHYSICIAN I CAN CURE YOUR DISEASE"....

 

If patient ask,the guy will simply answer"Im not a physician" and go away.

[Starling]

Well,i guess the Ph.D. holder won't run into patients and tell them "HAIII IM A PHYSICIAN I CAN CURE YOUR DISEASE"....

 

If patient ask,the guy will simply answer"Im not a physician" and go away.

 

I don't think an MD would say that either, lol. Med students do deal with patients, so the "go away" comment might not go over well.

[WaveSense]

Well,it is your right to use the Dr. title,as long as you put your level in your name,it's fine.

Ex: Dr.A.Robert,Ph.D.

 

When you put the Ph.D. on the name,the person is aware,people are not that stupid you know?It's easy to make the difference between a research scientist and a Physician.

 

You're missing the point. When someone goes into the hospital and someone comes up to them and says, "Hi, my name is Dr. so-and-so, what can I help you with today?" The patient is going to assume that this is a medical doctor not a nurse with a doctorate or a guy with a PhD.

[Guest success100]

You're missing the point. When someone goes into the hospital and someone comes up to them and says, "Hi, my name is Dr. so-and-so, what can I help you with today?" The patient is going to assume that this is a medical doctor not a nurse with a doctorate or a guy with a PhD.

 

If it's a lab guy,i don't think the Ph.D. holder will go see a patient,obviously.

[WaveSense]

Your posts are getting more and more nonsensical. Bottom line, in a hospital/clinic setting, a nurse calling him/herself doctor I think is inappropriate because the patient will assume that person is a medical doctor.