Applying To US DO Med Schools - FAQs, Guidance & Canadian Friendly Schools

[PaperLion]

Just submitted my app to AACOMAS. Hopefully verification doesn't take too long. Thanks to everyone contributing to this thread - it's been very helpful.

[Patrick1234]

I think you should stop freaking out. You should be happy that you have been accepted to medical school. It's pretty hard to exactly predict your life. You are always taking a risk when you step outside of Canada. Just work hard, try your best and hope that everything will turn out fine

 

 

Thanks Mashmoo and Gamer! I'm a little calmer now. I guess I just freaked out temporary because when I told my collegues (MDs and PHDs) (I work in a hospital in research) that I was going the DO route, they asked me why I wanted to be quacker doctor, but didn't apply the same stimga to MDs from Carribeans, or MBBS from Ireland. Do you guys face this issue at at? They think of them as real doctors but went to a worse school than Canadians...but hopefully perception will change.

 

But to be honest, I have yet to hear from my friends who went to Ireland that has not been able to match back and they had average board scores (although I guess a sample size of 15-20 is not too big or I guess I know some pretty smart people...) so I dont know why the IMG rate is so bad on paper. But I know you are right, that the minute I go outside, I can't really control where/which city I end up in. All I care about is that I can go back to Canada.

[Mashmetoo]

Thanks Mashmoo and Gamer! I'm a little calmer now. I guess I just freaked out temporary because when I told my collegues (MDs and PHDs) (I work in a hospital in research) that I was going the DO route, they asked me why I wanted to be quacker doctor, but didn't apply the same stimga to MDs from Carribeans, or MBBS from Ireland. Do you guys face this issue at at? They think of them as real doctors but went to a worse school than Canadians...but hopefully perception will change.

 

But to be honest, I have yet to hear from my friends who went to Ireland that has not been able to match back and they had average board scores (although I guess a sample size of 15-20 is not too big or I guess I know some pretty smart people...) so I dont know why the IMG rate is so bad on paper. But I know you are right, that the minute I go outside, I can't really control where/which city I end up in. All I care about is that I can go back to Canada.

 

The only time I had to deal with blatant disrespect/ ignorance like that was when word got out in my circle that I got into "medical school", so this lady calls up my mom and asks about "medical school" (she's doing it for her son, go figure). After being told that it was a DO school, and after (supposedly) her doing research on "USDOs", she had the audacity to call my mom, and inform her that DOs are not doctors (as they aren't MDs!), and hence, I'm not going to med school lol... The whole thing became a funny joke in my family. (The joke was on the other person..)

 

I do hear from people on this forum that they encounter this type of attitude once in a while in research settings - i.e., some random CMG MD, PhD, and occasional MBBS totally trashing the DO degree for whatever reason - usually the list of blatantly false and inaccurate accusations that you've encountered - the usual "not a doctor", "quack", "osteopathic doesn't sound like real medicine", etc etc etc. And somehow, these same people assume that going to Ireland for the MBBS and to become an IMG will not lead to the same stigma /bias I've always found this train of reasoning to be quite ludicrous.

 

If you dig a few pages back on this thread - you'll find there's another dude called "Iamsuperdoctor" that had basically the same problem. His mom asked his family doctor about medical school, and his knowledge on USDOs, the famly doc totally trashed the USDO profession, called us "quacks", etc etc, list of false accusations, then told him to go to Ireland. Before this debacle, he applied to USDO schools, but now he's a Irish IMG going into his 2nd year. The whole thing was like watching a car crash in slow motion, painful to look at. This guy then had the audacity to post his family doc's rant on this thread, and claim it to be "accurate information"... Geez, we'll see how well he does in 3 years time, vis a vis other people who chose the USDO route. Basically, yes, there's a lot of "peer pressure" by lay people to take the more difficult IMG path, simply because they haven't bothered to research, or simply don't know about the USDO option.

 

The sad part is that these people (CMG MDs, PhDs) never researched into the USDO profession - unlike people like yourself and I, who had to dig deep, read the stats, etc, and come to the correct conclusion.

 

In the end - it's not your coworkers that have to go to Ireland, splash 300K+ for an IMG degree, and then deal with the ROS issues that come after - so it's easy for them to say "go to Ireland". YOU are the one who has to do all of that. Besides, they didn't do any of the research in USDO education, YOU did. So this makes YOU the expert in this situation, and it makes them the laymen. In this case, you should absolutely trust your own judgement and research over the wrong headed OPINION of people who basically do not know what they are talking about.

 

It really depends on the type of people you run into. I have a friend who told his boss that he's going USDO, and the boss knew what USDOs are, and said it was a good choice (and this was in DT Toronto, in one of the big hospitals near UofT). So.. ya, depends on the knowledge base of the people you talk to.

 

Anyways, you are not the only one. I've come across quite a few Canadians this year who chose the USDO route over the Irish routes. And I'll say it again - it's the right decision.

[thegame11]

^^ Good advice above.

 

Just worry about yourself and who cares what other people think (This goes for many other things in life...). If somebody really gets in your face, refer them to the cpso website. Sometimes people put down others because of their own insecurities.

[Slashsev01]

The 'interviewer' said this?

 

Maybe lol

 

I say maybe bc i dont know if sgu is reading this lol ...

 

But the guy was realllyy nice n helpful

 

Lets be honest by the time u go in n finnish u can add another 10 yrs

 

The world will be different for sure...the profession will prob have spun 360

[desiallstar]

Is it too late to be competitive for MSUCOM? I know on the document it says

 

Recommended: Completed AACOMAS application

no later than 6/18/12; supplemental by 8/15/12

 

(3.7 GPA/ 32R MCAT)

 

If I can get everything for my primary ready by July 13th do I still stand a shot?

[Renegade85]

Is it too late to be competitive for MSUCOM? I know on the document it says

 

Recommended: Completed AACOMAS application

no later than 6/18/12; supplemental by 8/15/12

 

(3.7 GPA/ 32R MCAT)

 

If I can get everything for my primary ready by July 13th do I still stand a shot?

 

Hey, I say you definitely have a shot so go ahead and apply. Make sure you have solid volunteer stats to go with your grades as they really look at it. I had similar stats as you, 32MCAT and 3.8GPA. I applied near the end of July and was lucky enough to get accepted in the second week of September. I am currently enrolled and the college has been absolutely awesome. They are extremely helpful to us Canadians.

 

Good luck!

[hopemed]

Hey everyone,

 

I am very interested in applying for DO schools; but my GPA is pretty low, and wanted to ask what are some things I can do to improve my application.

cGPA and sGPA are both at 3.2.

 

Writing a good MCAT will definitely help, but what score must I achieve to almost "ensure" acceptance to one of the DO schools?

 

I have average extracurriculars, ~2.5 years in ER volunteer, some leadership (hosting charity events), 16 months co-op, currently working in pharmaceutical distribution.

 

I am planning on taking the MCAT next year march/april.

 

Thanks a lot for the help guys!

[Mashmetoo]

Hey everyone,

 

I am very interested in applying for DO schools; but my GPA is pretty low, and wanted to ask what are some things I can do to improve my application.

cGPA and sGPA are both at 3.2.

 

Writing a good MCAT will definitely help, but what score must I achieve to almost "ensure" acceptance to one of the DO schools?

 

I have average extracurriculars, ~2.5 years in ER volunteer, some leadership (hosting charity events), 16 months co-op, currently working in pharmaceutical distribution.

 

I am planning on taking the MCAT next year march/april.

 

Thanks a lot for the help guys!

 

There's no such thing as "ensuring" acceptance to any US school. You can aim for 30+ and apply broadly to increase your chance, but that's about it.

[hopemed]

There's no such thing as "ensuring" acceptance to any US school. You can aim for 30+ and apply broadly to increase your chance, but that's about it.

 

Hey mashmetoo,

 

thanks for the reply.

Yea, currently I'm aiming for 32+ MCAT to increase my chances.

Also, I heard DO schools have retake policies; but my university doesnt allow retakes unless you have failed the first time. Can you retake equivalent courses at different colleges to boost the GPA? Thanks for your help!

[hopemed]

Hey mashmetoo,

 

thanks for the reply.

Yea, currently I'm aiming for 32+ MCAT to increase my chances.

Also, I heard DO schools have retake policies; but my university doesnt allow retakes unless you have failed the first time. Can you retake equivalent courses at different colleges to boost the GPA? Thanks for your help!

 

EDIT: I've confirmed that you can retake courses at different colleges to improve GPA. I calculated that I can boost 3.2 to 3.33 for both GPAs if I get an A for 2 chem courses. Is this a significant change?

[Mashmetoo]

EDIT: I've confirmed that you can retake courses at different colleges to improve GPA. I calculated that I can boost 3.2 to 3.33 for both GPAs if I get an A for 2 chem courses. Is this a significant change?

 

No not really, average now is a 3.5-3.6 for most schools. Add on top the fact that you need a F1 student visa, makes you below average on the applicant pool. Your ECs could help if you do it right.

[hopemed]

No not really, average now is a 3.5-3.6 for most schools. Add on top the fact that you need a F1 student visa, makes you below average on the applicant pool. Your ECs could help if you do it right.

 

Hey Mashmetoo,

 

thanks again. I want to say I really appreciate you being on this thread all the time helping out new and hopeful applicants

[Slashsev]

its all about ur mcat right now..

 

going to make or break ur app

 

if u cannot..might need to take very big advantage of the grade replacement

[Cottoncandy6827]

Hey Mashemetoo,

 

Do you know of any examples if patients would judge you negatively for not having a MD after your name (ie. when you write prescriptions), your name does not have a MD on the pad and having a DO instead? I am not trying to sounds arrogant or ignorant to be worried about these 2 simple letters but it's just that DO is so not well known here in Canada that people confuse it with chirapactor and stuff so a lot of my friends and I who are considering this path are worried about not having the respect from the patients, which is necessary in order to treat them. You could say it's coz some ppl are being ignorant but at the end of the day, if you are not gonna get the respect from even these "ignorant people" it's hard to do the job well. I know if you practice in the US, it's ok but I'm really worried about practicing in Canada as a DO (I do not wish to practice in the US) even though the match rates is much better for DOs then for people who went to Ireland and Australia who have a much lower match rate in Canada and are subjected to the return of service agreement. Any thoughts on this? Thanks

 

 

The only time I had to deal with blatant disrespect/ ignorance like that was when word got out in my circle that I got into "medical school", so this lady calls up my mom and asks about "medical school" (she's doing it for her son, go figure). After being told that it was a DO school, and after (supposedly) her doing research on "USDOs", she had the audacity to call my mom, and inform her that DOs are not doctors (as they aren't MDs!), and hence, I'm not going to med school lol... The whole thing became a funny joke in my family. (The joke was on the other person..)

 

I do hear from people on this forum that they encounter this type of attitude once in a while in research settings - i.e., some random CMG MD, PhD, and occasional MBBS totally trashing the DO degree for whatever reason - usually the list of blatantly false and inaccurate accusations that you've encountered - the usual "not a doctor", "quack", "osteopathic doesn't sound like real medicine", etc etc etc. And somehow, these same people assume that going to Ireland for the MBBS and to become an IMG will not lead to the same stigma /bias I've always found this train of reasoning to be quite ludicrous.

 

If you dig a few pages back on this thread - you'll find there's another dude called "Iamsuperdoctor" that had basically the same problem. His mom asked his family doctor about medical school, and his knowledge on USDOs, the famly doc totally trashed the USDO profession, called us "quacks", etc etc, list of false accusations, then told him to go to Ireland. Before this debacle, he applied to USDO schools, but now he's a Irish IMG going into his 2nd year. The whole thing was like watching a car crash in slow motion, painful to look at. This guy then had the audacity to post his family doc's rant on this thread, and claim it to be "accurate information"... Geez, we'll see how well he does in 3 years time, vis a vis other people who chose the USDO route. Basically, yes, there's a lot of "peer pressure" by lay people to take the more difficult IMG path, simply because they haven't bothered to research, or simply don't know about the USDO option.

 

The sad part is that these people (CMG MDs, PhDs) never researched into the USDO profession - unlike people like yourself and I, who had to dig deep, read the stats, etc, and come to the correct conclusion.

 

In the end - it's not your coworkers that have to go to Ireland, splash 300K+ for an IMG degree, and then deal with the ROS issues that come after - so it's easy for them to say "go to Ireland". YOU are the one who has to do all of that. Besides, they didn't do any of the research in USDO education, YOU did. So this makes YOU the expert in this situation, and it makes them the laymen. In this case, you should absolutely trust your own judgement and research over the wrong headed OPINION of people who basically do not know what they are talking about.

 

It really depends on the type of people you run into. I have a friend who told his boss that he's going USDO, and the boss knew what USDOs are, and said it was a good choice (and this was in DT Toronto, in one of the big hospitals near UofT). So.. ya, depends on the knowledge base of the people you talk to.

 

Anyways, you are not the only one. I've come across quite a few Canadians this year who chose the USDO route over the Irish routes. And I'll say it again - it's the right decision.

[Mashmetoo]

Hey Mashemetoo,

 

Do you know of any examples if patients would judge you negatively for not having a MD after your name (ie. when you write prescriptions), your name does not have a MD on the pad and having a DO instead? I am not trying to sounds arrogant or ignorant to be worried about these 2 simple letters but it's just that DO is so not well known here in Canada that people confuse it with chirapactor and stuff so a lot of my friends and I who are considering this path are worried about not having the respect from the patients, which is necessary in order to treat them. You could say it's coz some ppl are being ignorant but at the end of the day, if you are not gonna get the respect from even these "ignorant people" it's hard to do the job well. I know if you practice in the US, it's ok but I'm really worried about practicing in Canada as a DO (I do not wish to practice in the US) even though the match rates is much better for DOs then for people who went to Ireland and Australia who have a much lower match rate in Canada and are subjected to the return of service agreement. Any thoughts on this? Thanks

 

No, never heard of it in Canada, none of the Canadian USDOs I talked to experienced this either.

[PhiPhenomenon]

Hey Mashmetoo.

 

I have a quick question regarding licensure for a DO. From what I understand you need to take and pass the COMLEX in order to get your license and the USMLE in order to get into an ACGME residency. In order to pass the COMLEX steps and receive your license are you required to utilize OMM?

[thegame11]

Hey Mashmetoo.

 

I have a quick question regarding licensure for a DO. From what I understand you need to take and pass the COMLEX in order to get your license and the USMLE in order to get into an ACGME residency. In order to pass the COMLEX steps and receive your license are you required to utilize OMM?

 

You can get into some ACGME family med. residencies with just the COMLEX. You need to know OMM in order to pass the COMLEX exams, if that's what you mean.

[Mashmetoo]

Hey Mashmetoo.

 

I have a quick question regarding licensure for a DO. From what I understand you need to take and pass the COMLEX in order to get your license and the USMLE in order to get into an ACGME residency. In order to pass the COMLEX steps and receive your license are you required to utilize OMM?

 

What thegame11 said. From my research, the majority of FM ACGME residencies seem to be ok with your only taking the COMLEX step 1.

 

You need OMM knowledge to pass COMLEX 1,2,3. If you are asking if you need to use OMM once you graduate, that's up to you, can use it, or can forget about it. And yes, for COMLEX step 2 clinical, you have to use OMM on your patient encounter.

[Patrick1234]

Hey current Canadian DOs

 

If I'm interested in a FM/IM allopathic residency in either US or Canada. What kind of board scores should I aim for? (for COMPLEX (for graduation), USMILE, and MCCEE?

 

Also, what kinda timeline did you guys sort of follow? I know COMPLEX I and USMILE 1 overlaps so did you guys write one in May after 2nd year and the other in June or it's better to give a few months in between? is it better to write the COMPLEX first or the USMILE?

 

Thanks for all the help

[Mashmetoo]

Hey current Canadian DOs

 

If I'm interested in a FM/IM allopathic residency in either US or Canada. What kind of board scores should I aim for? (for COMPLEX (for graduation), USMILE, and MCCEE?

 

Also, what kinda timeline did you guys sort of follow? I know COMPLEX I and USMILE 1 overlaps so did you guys write one in May after 2nd year and the other in June or it's better to give a few months in between? is it better to write the COMPLEX first or the USMILE?

 

Thanks for all the help

 

1) You should get your terms right - it's COMLEX, NOT complex, and USMLE, not U SMILE... lol...

 

2) The kind of scores you need to be competitive is too soon for you to know, you got at least 2 years, wait until you get there first. This information will be meaningless to you right now.

 

3) Something I wrote on http://www.studentdo.ca

 

Your timeline will probably look something like this:

end of year 2 -> COMLEX I, USMLE I

end of year 3 -> COMLEX II, USMLE II, MCCEE

August (beginning) of year 4 -> register with CaRMS, along with US residency matches

Somewhere in 4th year (if the state allows it), but usually AFTER 4th year - COMLEX III, USMLE III

 

Middle of year 4 -> see where you match

 

Even though MCC says only 4th years can write the MCCEE - this is in fact incorrect as it would be too late. You need to finish the MCCEE at the end of 3rd year to be able to apply to CaRMS.

 

Also, MCCQE parts 1 and 2 are done AFTER first year of residency (PGY-1). It goes like:

PGY1 - MCCQE1

PGY2 - MCCQE2

 

No one writes the MCCQEs during med school, no CMGs, no AMGs, no IMGs.

[Mourning Cloak]

If I'm interested in a FM/IM allopathic residency in either US or Canada. What kind of board scores should I aim for? (for COMPLEX (for graduation), USMILE, and MCCEE?

 

Most provinces don't publish their hard cut offs, but historically Ontario family medicine has stated (in writing) that they don't consider anyone with a MCCEE <271, and that their interviewed applicants are above 318 (~75th percentile)

 

And don't forget that for the Canadian match, in Alberta (but not Ontario or BC, as far as I can tell), there are additional requirements e.g. province specific OSCEs / MMIs or NAC-OSCE.

 

Reference: http://carms.ca/eng/r1_eligibility_prov_e.shtml - when you're in your final year, read through all the CaRMS info very carefully - there's a lot of detail and CaRMS is notoriously inflexible about their requirements (I just did the matching thing this past year).

[Patrick1234]

1) You should get your terms right - it's COMLEX, NOT complex, and USMLE, not U SMILE... lol...

 

2) The kind of scores you need to be competitive is too soon for you to know, you got at least 2 years, wait until you get there first. This information will be meaningless to you right now.

 

3) Something I wrote on http://www.studentdo.ca

 

Your timeline will probably look something like this:

end of year 2 -> COMLEX I, USMLE I

end of year 3 -> COMLEX II, USMLE II, MCCEE

August (beginning) of year 4 -> register with CaRMS, along with US residency matches

Somewhere in 4th year (if the state allows it), but usually AFTER 4th year - COMLEX III, USMLE III

 

Middle of year 4 -> see where you match

 

Even though MCC says only 4th years can write the MCCEE - this is in fact incorrect as it would be too late. You need to finish the MCCEE at the end of 3rd year to be able to apply to CaRMS.

 

Also, MCCQE parts 1 and 2 are done AFTER first year of residency (PGY-1). It goes like:

PGY1 - MCCQE1

PGY2 - MCCQE2

 

No one writes the MCCQEs during med school, no CMGs, no AMGs, no IMGs.

 

 

 

Thanks. So 5 exams in med school and 2 exams in the summer before residency, and 2 more after 1st year of residency => is this right? IF i match in Canada and get a residency spot there, do I still have to write the COMLEX III, USMLE III?

 

I know the board scores will def change but I'm just wondering what a good score would be. Like the mcat, >33 is a good score, this was true 2 years ago and it's still true now. Thanks!

[Mashmetoo]

Thanks. So 5 exams in med school and 2 exams in the summer before residency, and 2 more after 1st year of residency => is this right? IF i match in Canada and get a residency spot there, do I still have to write the COMLEX III, USMLE III?

 

I know the board scores will def change but I'm just wondering what a good score would be. Like the mcat, >33 is a good score, this was true 2 years ago and it's still true now. Thanks!

 

You need COMLEX III and USMLE III to practice in the US. If your plan is to stay in Canada and not practice in the US, then yes, you can choose to not take the step 3. However, the entire series steps 1,2,3 has to be done within 7 years, or the whole thing expires and you have to start from scratch.

 

Scores depend on residency. A good score for FM is not a good score for dermatology. This info is easily googleable. NRMP releases a PDF each year, check out the 2011 edition.

[Patrick1234]

You need COMLEX III and USMLE III to practice in the US. If your plan is to stay in Canada and not practice in the US, then yes, you can choose to not take the step 3. However, the entire series steps 1,2,3 has to be done within 7 years, or the whole thing expires and you have to start from scratch.

 

Scores depend on residency. A good score for FM is not a good score for dermatology. This info is easily googleable. NRMP releases a PDF each year, check out the 2011 edition.

 

Thanks a lot Mashmetoo for the help!