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Applying To US DO Med Schools - FAQs, Guidance & Canadian Friendly Schools


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Guest tongtongcuty
on the matriciulation report publisheb by AACOM it said there are only 13 Canadians in the US, seems a little low.

 

That must be a mistake. Our class has 6 Canadians.

It is a good thing that the relative Canadians ratio are low at the moment such that the competitiveness to get in is still within the reach.

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on the matriciulation report publisheb by AACOM it said there are only 13 Canadians in the US, seems a little low.

 

That has to be a mistake, there's no way there's only 13 Canadians. My school alone could easily make up 13 Canadians.

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That must be a mistake. Our class has 6 Canadians.

It is a good thing that the relative Canadians ratio are low at the moment such that the competitiveness to get in is still within the reach.

 

This is true. It's all about supply and demand. Right now, Canadian premeds haven't really caught on to Osteopathic medicine yet. So the low application rate compared to MD schools is reflected. Then, there's the flood of Canadians with maybe lower stats or simply bad luck that hastily chose the Caribbean/Ireland/Australia without being aware of the DO schools and this parallel but equal branch of medicine. There's still lots of confusion in Canada on what the DO degree and Osteopathic medicine in the US represents. Unfortunately, you get ignoramus premeds like medmal attacking this pathway without knowing what it is, and then confusing a legitimate branch of medicine with naturopathy and hair styling. As tongtongcuty rightly says, there may be a day in the not too distant future when Canadians finally catch on, and the entrance requirements for Canadian applicants to US DO schools will be proportionately elevated (not that it's low or anything currently, it is comparable to US MD schools, but DO schools are much more willing to accept your "overall" application, and won't allow a few bad marks hurt your chances).

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That has to be a mistake, there's no way there's only 13 Canadians. My school alone could easily make up 13 Canadians.

 

Wow, that's more than I expected.

 

Quick question...I know that Canadian's stats should be higher than the average American's when even applying for DO, but based on your experience what do you think the range I should be aiming for? My GPA is really on the low side :(

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Guest tongtongcuty
Wow, that's more than I expected.

 

Quick question...I know that Canadian's stats should be higher than the average American's when even applying for DO, but based on your experience what do you think the range I should be aiming for? My GPA is really on the low side :(

 

It has been increasing every year. I would say at least 3.55 cGPA + 28 MCAT

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Wow, that's more than I expected.

 

Quick question...I know that Canadian's stats should be higher than the average American's when even applying for DO, but based on your experience what do you think the range I should be aiming for? My GPA is really on the low side :(

 

The average entrance GPA for COMP was around 3.50 - 3.60 on the AMCAS scale, the average MCAT was around 28. Compared to MD schools like Franklin/ Washington, their average gpa was also around 3.50-3.6, with an agerage MCAT of around 29 or so. So those 2 branches of schools have similar entrance requirements. BUT, there's a large number of Canadians on SDN who successfully matriculated in US DO schools with a cgpa of around 3.0 if not ~0.1 lower.

 

If you have good research/volunteer to support your application, even a 3.0 or slightly lower gpa will not be a hindrance to you application (if you applied in the early/ middle crowd, and NOT near the end of the application in october/November like I did).

 

In my opinion, either you have a pretty good MCAT (as tongtongcuty rightly says, 28+), or a pretty decent gpa 3.0+, and you should have a sweet chance of matriculating in the DO schoool. As I said many times before, a low GPA will NOT hinder your chances as they look at your "overall" application and the type of person you are. They really take life experiences and the kind of things you did into account, and the cGPA is not the judge-all for DO schools.

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Guest tongtongcuty

3.0 might be ok a few years ago, but for the five schools I mentioned, the average entrance cgpa is at 3.6, which is still low compared to regular Canadian med schools. You could try to apply, but your other part of application needs to be solid.

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3.0 might be ok a few years ago, but for the five schools I mentioned, the average entrance cgpa is at 3.6, which is still low compared to regular Canadian med schools. You could try to apply, but your other part of application needs to be solid.

 

Is 3.6 on AACOMAS scale? Because I've noticed on the official booklet that cGPA is pretty higher than what I expected to be...I mean, there's not too much difference between some MD schools as Mashmetoo mentioned.

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DO education is not inferior. You should try to apply first.

 

Yes, I learned that through researching about it. I didn't mean to make my post seem offensive, if it seemed that way. I will be applying to both at the same time...but you can't deny the fact that avg. DO GPA is lower than avg. MD GPA.

 

So...if you take a course while you apply, it won't be added to your cGPA, would it?

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Yes, I learned that through researching about it. I didn't mean to make my post seem offensive, if it seemed that way. I will be applying to both at the same time...but you can't deny the fact that avg. DO GPA is lower than avg. MD GPA.

 

So...if you take a course while you apply, it won't be added to your cGPA, would it?

 

just like MD schools in Canada and the US, current credits taken during the year you apply are not counted in your cGPA for DO schools. As for courses that you retook, I recall reading from US applicants that there's a slightly boost/help to your cgpa if your retaken course's GPA is higher than the first time you took it. i.e., DO schools show a lot of leniency to retaken courses. I do not know the specifics, but the formula should be explained on the actual aacomsas application website.

 

Also, if you take an average of ALL the DO schools, the old ones and the newer ones, there "probably" will be a slightly lower average entrance GPA by ~0.05-0.10 compared MD schools. But realize now that there are only around 28 DO schools, and well over 166 MD schools in the US including all the big shot Ivy Leagues like Harvard, Stanford, Brown, etc etc with all the gunners in America and their legacy scholarship, 4.0 gpas, 40+ mcats gunning for these prestigious institutions. So the 'average entrance gpa of DO vs MD schools" is probably a bad way of looking at DO schools, and then saying that "MD schools have higher entrance GPAs". If you look at individual DO schools, and compare them 1 on 1 with similar MD schools (e.g. COMP vs. Franklin), you'll find that the entrance avg GPA and MCAT are basically identical.

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Almost all of the osteopathic schools require a reference letter from a physician. How important is the quality of this letter? I am trying to find a physician and will probably just end up doing the minimum number of hours of shadowing and hopefully get a reference letter. (I think my other letters are ok...)

 

For the secondary applications, most of them ask "Why DO?" Is it ok to simply state that you agree with principles like holistic medicine even though I have never shadowed an osteopathic physician... Some of them even ask... "state your experiences with osteopathic medicine". What if you don't have any? :(

 

The quality is obviously very important, it wouldn't help to have a MD/DO letter that says "this applicant will make a horrible doctor, and I do not recommend him/her for med school". Tell the doc to write you a strongly SUPPORTIVE letter and then the rest is up to the powers that be.

 

This is how I answered the question of "why DO" in my actual interview. it worked out marvelously.

 

 

1) I want to pursue osteopathic medicine because I am drawn to its “holistic” approach of seeing a person as a combination of body, mind and spirit, which is something that is lacking in the allopathic counterparts.

 

I am also drawn to the emphasis on preventative medicine – to prevent diseases before they occur, which inherently makes sense to me and is considered generally to be a sound medical principle.

 

2) I wish to become an osteopathic physician in order to pursue a career in primary health care. Osteopathic medicine also has a strong emphasis on a patient-centered system and primary care. I want to pursue a career in primary care because there is heavy emphasis on the interaction with patients, treatment of undifferentiated problems, and disease prevention – all these things I consider to be the hallmarks of a good doctor.

 

3) I want to pursue DO b/c from an educational point of view, I think that I would learn MORE medicine in an osteopathic program, than an allopathic one. All topics of modern medicine are covered by both MD and DO programs, but DO learn the something more, this being Osteopathic manipulative medicine. I am attracted to this because it seems that I will be getting more education in a DO program than a MD program. With tuition and the length of time for both branches of medicine being the same, I think that enrolling into a DO program is more advantageous, as I get more education, and learn more skills.

 

As for "state your experience with Osteopathic medicine", I was also asked this question on my interview, but it was a combined question with 'why DO"?

 

I basically said, in Canada, there are NO DO schools and it is extremely difficult to find a DO to shadow. But I was able to do extensive research on the DO philosophy through online articles and correspondance with other US citizens and Canadians who have gone to DO schools and are familiar with DO philosophy (I was referring to people I've talked to who gave me info on DOs, for you, you could say the same thing, something along the lines of I talked to Canadian DO med students on public forums etc etc). From PERSONAL INTERACTION with DO med students and my personal research into the DO philosophy and history, I've become quite an "expert" on things pertaining to DOs. Then I segwayed into my "Why DO" answer.

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My question for the FAQ:

 

Are there any DO teachings or practices that traditional allopathic students would find hard to swallow?

 

I've read a number of posts on SDN about students coming home from class thinking "I can't believe they're teaching us something like this". One of the examples involved students feeling a patient's skull to assess for vibrations or something... and a couple of the respondents thought it was bs.

 

Now I'll concede that the DO vs MD debate on SDN isn't the most objective way to gather facts so I was wondering what you guys thought? I understand the vast majority of the curricula overlaps, but are you learning anything that you consider to be just "out there"?

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My question for the FAQ:

 

Are there any DO teachings or practices that traditional allopathic students would find hard to swallow?

 

I've read a number of posts on SDN about students coming home from class thinking "I can't believe they're teaching us something like this". One of the examples involved students feeling a patient's skull to assess for vibrations or something... and a couple of the respondents thought it was bs.

 

Now I'll concede that the DO vs MD debate on SDN isn't the most objective way to gather facts so I was wondering what you guys thought? I understand the vast majority of the curricula overlaps, but are you learning anything that you consider to be just "out there"?

 

DO schools are 4 years, so are MD schools. DO schools get ALL the topics covered in the MD schools, same textbooks and all. On top of the MD curriculum that we are getting (in DO school), DOs also get an additional 400 hours of OMM (Osteopathic manipulative medicine). The OMM is the part that lots of MDs AND DOs have a hard time swallowing. What happens is that after the DO graduates and starts practising, those who don't believe in OMM shun it and refuse to use it. On the other hand, other DOs love OMM and use it regularly on their patients.

 

From the tip-of-the-iceberg OMM I'm getting right now. What you've just stated about the "feeling for vibrations on the skull", that's basically THE most controversial one. OMM principles goes something like this - the human body is made up of the somatic part (muscles that allow for movement and activities that make up your life), and visceral parts (organs that support the somatic body). The body has a natural tendency to heal itself. What we see as "illness" is not so much the symptoms of disease, but the inability of the body to heal itself. (this part actually sounds almost exactly like Chinese traditional medicine, which I thought was pretty coincidental/influenced? when I first read it). I'm still pretty noob in terms of OMM principles, so if an experienced DO is reading this, please correct me if I am wrong. Discomforts in the body (e.g. muscle aches, chronic headaches, pain in the muscles, tendons, etc) can be treated/cured/fixed by "manipulating" / "adjusting" the orientation of the nerves in the spinal column and the muscles along the length of the nerve's axons. The cranial "vibration" technique you mentioned is very controversial because it says that the bones making up the human skull is movable (i.e., the sutures connecting the bones of your skull, e.g. coronal suture and the bones connected by this suture is not so fixed that it is immovable). You can actually move the bones of the skull by OMM techniques, and with movement, you can create a "vibration" in the skull bones. This technique then has therapeutic benefits. Of course, anatomists, even the anatomy prof in my school, say this theory is controversial, as main stream anatomy says that the bones of the skull are completely fixed in place by the time you hit 18 years of age. So to say that the bones can be "moved" with a vibration present in the adult skull is controversial at best. - of course, what I just said is very condensed with most of the important parts paraphrased to the best of my abilities. There could be mistakes in understanding, so don't quote me on this.

 

 

 

here's some basic introduction to the theory/principles of Osteopathic medicine:

 

http://www.westernu.edu/xp/edu/comp/omm_history.xml

 

Osteopathic History and Principles

 

Osteopathic medicine as we know it begins with Andrew Taylor Still, M.D. (1828 - 1917), who introduced its concepts in 1874. Still's basic idea --- that the human body was much like a machine, one that would function well if all its parts were in proper mechanical relationship --- was unique compared to the medical thinking of the time.

 

Doctor Still believed that the human body should be studied as a whole, and that all elements of a person's body, mind and spirit had to be incorporated into the total care of that person. He believed that the body had self-regulatory and self-healing powers, that the body contained within it all the substances necessary for maintaining health. When the body was properly stimulated, Still believed that these substances would also assist in recovering from illness. He did not view disease as an outside agent somehow inflicting itself on the body. Rather, disease was the result of alterations in the structural relationships of the body parts that led to an inability of the body to resist or recover from illness.

 

"Osteopathy is based on the perfection of Nature's work. When all parts of the human body are in line we have health. When they are not the effect is disease. When the parts are readjusted disease gives place to health. The work of the osteopath is to adjust the body from the abnormal to the normal; then the abnormal condition gives place to the normal and health is the result of the normal condition."

 

Still applied this philosophy to his medical practice with great success, while continuing to prudently utilize the medical and surgical approaches available to him. As a result of his years of study, and the application of his ideas to his practice, he was able to leave us with a set of general principles that are still central to the contemporary practice of osteopathic medicine.

 

* The human body is a unit, an integrated organism in which no part functions independently. According to this principle, abnormalities in the structure or function of one part of the body may unfavorably influence other parts, and eventually, the body as a whole.

* The body has an inherent capacity to maintain its own health and to heal itself. By extension, this principle implies that there must be adequate circulation to and from all tissues of the body, and there must be proper nervous system function in order to coordinate the actions of all of the body's organs and systems.

* Structure and function are interrelated, and the musculoskeletal system can reflect changes in and can produce changes in other body systems. Still considered the human body to be a machine. He saw that the musculoskeletal system (bones, muscles, ligaments and connective tissues) was the largest collective system of the body, making up 60 percent or more of the body's mass. Through careful study and experimentation, he was able to associate abnormalities in the structural system of the body with signs and symptoms of various diseases. He developed manipulative methods (now known as osteopathic manipulative treatment) to remove these structural abnormalities to alleviate the patient's illness.

* Rational treatment is based upon integration of the first three principles into the total care of the patient. Thus treatment is based on the principles of body unity, self-regulatory and self-healing mechanisms, the somatic component of disease, the interrelationship between structure and function, and the appropriate use of manipulative treatment.

 

The Osteopathic View of Health and Disease

 

What an osteopathic physician does for a patient (aside from the use of osteopathic manipulative treatment) is often not different from what any physician might do when faced with a similar situation. What is different about the osteopathic physician is how he or she thinks about health and disease. The difference is found in the previously described philosophical concepts and principles of osteopathic medicine.

 

Under normal circumstances, the body's own self-regulatory and self-healing mechanisms are able to counteract these stressors and thus maintain health. However, should stressors accumulate to the point where these mechanisms are overwhelmed, the body's inherent tendency toward health is weakened. Continuation of this process over time leads to the signs and symptoms of illness. The osteopathic physician recognizes that these signs and symptoms are not the illness itself, but are only the outward signs of the illness. The illness is the result of the stressors' impact on the body's systems. Treatment must be directed toward the stressors, as symptomatic treatment alone will not guarantee the restoration of health.

 

Medicine has classically been preoccupied with internal organs (viscera), but life as we experience it does not consist of the sum total of the activity of one's viscera. Life is much more than that. Life is what we see each other do, and the human being is not just a biological entity that performs functions such as vasodilatation and peristalsis. The human being also runs, works, plays music, and is creative. In all of these activities the body as a whole or in part moves. Thus human life is expressed through movement, and the movement that is expressed is carried out by the musculoskeletal system. This musculoskeletal system is the machinery by which even our thoughts and wishes are carried out, by which even our highest intellectual activities are communicated to others and turned into action. Thus, from the osteopathic point of view, the musculoskeletal system is the primary machinery of life.

 

If this is so, then what about the viscera, those internal organs with which medicine is always so concerned? Again, from the osteopathic point of view, their role is supportive in nature. They are the secondary machinery of life. The viscera are not less important, but rather are put into a different perspective. Their role is to care for. and maintain the primary machinery, which means that they are concerned with providing nutrients, oxygen and other such materials, disposing of waste products, and providing defense and repair mechanisms for the body. In other words, the viscera are concerned with regulating the internal environment in which the cells of the primary machinery carry out their function. From moment to moment, the viscera bring into harmony all the functions necessary to meet the current demands of the primary machinery, the neuromusculoskeletal system.

 

We use the term 'neuromusculoskeletal' system, because it is through the nervous system that the primary and secondary machinery communicate and maintain the body's state of dynamic equilibrium. We are particularly interested in the autonomic nervous system, and most particularly in the sympathetic portion of the autonomic system. While all parts of the nervous system are important in the body's ability to function, the sympathetic system provides the most direct anatomical link between the soma and the viscera, since it has fibers that reach every tissue in the human body. Thus, the role of the autonomic nervous system is given more importance in the osteopathic physician's approach to the patient.

 

The primary and secondary machinery communicate with each other by way of the nervous system, and especially through the sympathetic nervous system. When all goes well, and proper communication is maintained, the body is said to be in a state of wellness or homeostasis. But when illness occurs in an internal organ, the neural connections between that organ and its related body wall region experience a continued heightened state of activity known as facilitation. Likewise, when an injury to the soma occurs, these same neural connections can result in a facilitated state that results in visceral symptoms, even though the problem is not primarily in the viscera.

 

When this happens, standard medical practice focuses on and treats the visceral aspects of the problem. However, the osteopathic physician knows that the somatic component of any given illness is at least as important as the visceral aspect. Furthermore, the osteopathic physician knows that the somatic component can be accessed through palpation and treated with osteopathic manipulative methods. This not only helps to alleviate symptoms, but also improves blood supply, nerve function and immune response in the affected viscera, thus optimizing the body's self-regulatory and self-healing mechanisms. The patient is in a better position to recover with perhaps little or no intervention with drugs or surgery, and is more capable of maintaining an improved state of health over a long period of time. This is the rationale for stressing the importance of the interrelationship between structure and function, and for the use of osteopathic manipulative methods as part of the total care of the patient.

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i think it may be a bit late to apply now. from what ive heard, ppl usually start interviewing in october. if u do ur mcat sept11, u'll get ur scores oct11, schools will probably process ur appilcation end of october-begining november. till then the first round of offers have already been made, since we r canadian we gota apply early. but i think ur GPA is decent and ye 30+ MCATS is good. check this site out http://www.doapplicants.com/Pages/Schools/Schools.aspx?mode=2

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i think it may be a bit late to apply now. from what ive heard, ppl usually start interviewing in october. if u do ur mcat sept11, u'll get ur scores oct11, schools will probably process ur appilcation end of october-begining november. till then the first round of offers have already been made, since we r canadian we gota apply early. but i think ur GPA is decent and ye 30+ MCATS is good. check this site out http://www.doapplicants.com/Pages/Schools/Schools.aspx?mode=2

 

It's not too late, the primary application deadline for a lot of the schools are February 1st. A bunch of their deadlines even stretch to March. I personally got my primary AACOMAS applications done in Mid November. If you were to do it now, there's still time! If you didn't interview in October, that just means you are not in the first batch of interviewees. I got my interviews in March, and some people had theirs in April. You still got a good 2 months!

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Let's say your GPA is lower than the average but your MCAT is higher than the average. What are the chances that a Canadian fellow could be accepted with these stats? Should still give it a shot and apply early?

 

That all depends on how well you can sell yourself, your determination, your worth in the secondary statement, and then in the final interview. A lot of DO applicants had low GPA, but very good MCAT. Other applicants have the opposite - High GPA, and bad MCAT. You'll find both groups in medical school (both DO and MD). Regardless of your stats, your chances will be maximized the earlier you apply. AS SOON AS POSSIBLE is basically the best thing you can do to maximize your chances of acceptance to an American med school.

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That all depends on how well you can sell yourself, your determination, your worth in the secondary statement, and then in the final interview. A lot of DO applicants had low GPA, but very good MCAT. Other applicants have the opposite - High GPA, and bad MCAT. You'll find both groups in medical school (both DO and MD). Regardless of your stats, your chances will be maximized the earlier you apply. AS SOON AS POSSIBLE is basically the best thing you can do to maximize your chances of acceptance to an American med school.

 

Sigh. I am dreading this countdown of the new cycle.

 

Thanks for the response. That sorta cheered me up.

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i filled out my aacomas application, it doesnt show mcmaster university as one of the accredit (*) schools. Weird. I checked the other canadian universities, there was only like 3 on the list. Does anyone know what bearing this plays on the application process?

 

There was an applicant earlier on in this thread who had a similar problem with UBC not being on the list of schools. I told him to contact AACOMAS to resolve the issue. You can find his post of the similar situation on page 1 or 2 of this thread.

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Guest tongtongcuty

You spend too much time explaining. I think it is pretty succinct and to the point. Less Canadians apply mean more chances for Canadians who went into DO route to have even higher chances of matching into Canadian residencies. Actually, if I were selfish, I would prefer no more Canadians apply until we got our spots in Canada.

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