Applying To US DO Med Schools - FAQs, Guidance & Canadian Friendly Schools

[leviathan]

DO students by default are going to have lower GPAs than MD students, because except for rare exceptions everybody at DO schools is there because they couldn't get into an allopathic school. The stats back that up too. DOs have to write the USMLEs because they cannot attend an allopathic residency program without it. It doesn't make them 'better' that they write 6 different exams, and for the record their performance on the USMLE exams is on average lower than MD students.

 

All that said, does any of it matter? NO! Having now run into lots of DOs in the hospital, I've never seen any discrimination against them or MDs expressing any perceptions that they are anything less than their equals. In Canada you may find a different experience since it's a classic case of ignorance leading to fear and discrimination.

[DubZteR]

All that said, does any of it matter? NO! Having now run into lots of DOs in the hospital, I've never seen any discrimination against them or MDs expressing any perceptions that they are anything less than their equals.

 

This is good to hear!

[pither]

Thanks for the helpful information Mashmetoo. I'm looking into this for next year. I have some questions for you regarding the clinical years.

 

1. Are your clinical rotations exactly the same as those for an MD school? That is my impression, but I can't find anything to confirm either way.

 

2. You mentioned having the opportunity to do a clinical rotation in Canada. Is this common? I didn't see any info on the COMP website about it. Which rotation and university is that with?

 

3. If you did want to apply to a residency in Canada, it would be an advantage to do an elective here - do you have any plans to do electives in Canada? My suspicion is that it's difficult to get universities here to welcome DO students. Would their insurance even cover it?

 

4. To clarify, if you want to do residency in Canada, you are limited to ON, BC, AB but after that you can then practice in all other provinces (other than the Atlantic ones you mention)?

[Mashmetoo]

Thanks for the helpful information Mashmetoo. I'm looking into this for next year. I have some questions for you regarding the clinical years.

 

1. Are your clinical rotations exactly the same as those for an MD school? That is my impression, but I can't find anything to confirm either way.

 

2. You mentioned having the opportunity to do a clinical rotation in Canada. Is this common? I didn't see any info on the COMP website about it. Which rotation and university is that with?

 

3. If you did want to apply to a residency in Canada, it would be an advantage to do an elective here - do you have any plans to do electives in Canada? My suspicion is that it's difficult to get universities here to welcome DO students. Would their insurance even cover it?

 

4. To clarify, if you want to do residency in Canada, you are limited to ON, BC, AB but after that you can then practice in all other provinces (other than the Atlantic ones you mention)?

 

1) Depends on what exactly you mean by "same as those of MD schools". Our core rotations of course contains all the disciplines of medicine (e.g., family med, surgery, peds, etc) just like MD schools. I think for a few sites, both MD and DO students rotate there. Unlike the big name MD schools however, we don't really have an affiliated hospital (but we did built a brand new medical center right beside our school that opened last year). The newly established MD schools tend to follow the DO model of having their students move around during their 3-4th years to different clinical sites. Some DO schools rotate out of state, but for WesternU, they are all around Southern California. You just need a car to drive around.

 

2) They have elective rotations (basically a job audition) in Canada - not clinical rotation. They stated this during the first day of orientation. Unfortunately, due to the workload of school, I forgot which prof it was that was responsible for international electives. I also haven't had the time/chance to find out where exactly this elective Canadian rotation is at. I figure I'm in first year, and will have at least another 2-3 years to figure it out. Luckily for me, I figured there's no urgent need to find out especially when I know such an elective exists, and I'm basically the only "Canadian" in my year that'll be interested in it.

 

3) Depends on the policy of the Canadian institution you are interested in. For instance, at UBC for FM, their program website clearly states that doing an elective there will not improve or impede your application. So basically there's no point in doing an elective in said place. Where as in Ontario, I figure to get into places like UofT, you'd need some kind of elective there. As for myself, yes, I definitely will find out where the elective is at a later date, and fight my way towards doing electives in Canada. Especially now with all the updates in policy allowing USDOs to apply in CaRMs first round with CMGs and USMDs. As for Universities welcoming DO students or not, I'll figure that out when the time comes. My hunch is that WesternU's Canadian elective resulted from the work of an upper year Canadian student who managed to secure a Canadian elective. It is pretty pointless at this point to speculate whether Canadian universities will welcome DO students or not. This is something to be figured out when the time comes.

 

4) yes that is correct, don't be confused by the guy that posted above, his data is way off. You have first match along with USMDs, and CMGs in Ontario, BC, 2nd match in Alberta. After that, you have the exact same practice rights as any MDs in all Canadian provinces/territories except Saskatchwan, PEI, and NFL (but PEI, or NFL (can't remember exactly which one it was), is pending a review of DOs, so who knows, maybe things will change there too!).

[Mashmetoo]

Alright folks, time for another quick update. Remember when I updated that MSU (Michigan State University) will be recruiting 20-25 Canadian students a year and setting a special tuition rate for them in order to promote Osteopathic medicine in Canada? Well, as of 2011, they have accepted 16 Canadians into their class of 2015, and they will also be reducing their tuition by 20,000 dollars. This is pretty big news as I'm fairly certain that no other DO schools in the US currently have 16 Canadians in a SINGLE CLASS.

 

Also, heard from the grapevines of a student from MSU. There's apparantly some interest that the AOA wants to open an Osteopathic medical school in Canada in order to promote the profession up here. The specifics are not clear, the student apparantly was present in a meeting, and they discussed this...

 

Until next time!

[shikimate]

Hey Mashmetoo:

 

Thanks a lot for the update, looks like MSU-COM is a great shot next cycle!

[Mashmetoo]

TouroCOM-NY 2011 - notice anything peculiar?

 

Cleveland Clinic (OH)

Mayo Clinic (MN)

Brooke Army Medical Center (TX)

Nassau University Medical Center (NY) x7

Wyckhoff Heights Medical Center (NY)

Eisenhower Army Medical Center (GA)

Aria Health (PA) x3

Danbury Hospital (CT)

St. Michael's Hospital (NJ)

St. John's Episcopal (NY) x4

University of Wisconsin/St. Lukes Milwaulkee x2

Metro Health Hospital (MI)

St. Joseph's Regional (NJ)

United Hospital Systems (WI)

Magnolia Regional Health Center (MS)

Stamford Hospital/Columbia University (CT)

Sinai Hospital of Baltimore (MD)

Indiana University School of Medicine x2

Walter Reed Army Medical Center (D.C.)

Maimonides Medical Center (NY) x4

Baystate Medical Center/Tufts University (MA)

Hofstra/NSLIJ (NY)

Greenwich Hospital (CT)

St. Luke's Roosevelt (NY) x2

Peninsula Hospital (NY) x3

Stony Brook Teaching Hospital (NY)

Maine Medical Center

Brookhaven Memorial Hospital (NY)

St. Barnabus Hospital (NJ) x3

Hospital of St. Raphael (CT)

SUNY Health Science Center/SUNY Downstate (NY) x2

Philadelphia College of Medicine (PA)

St. Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center (AZ) x2

East Carolina School of Medicine (NC)

Metropolitan Hospital Center (NY)

Arrowhead Regional Medical Center (CA)

Westchester Medical Center (NY)

McMaster University Medical Center (Ontario, Canada)

St. Elizabeth's Medical Center (NY) x2

University of Minnesota Medical School

Downey Regional Medical Center (CA)

Jamaica Hospital (NY)

Univerity at Buffalo School of Medicine (NY)

Jersey City Hospital (NJ)

Good Samaritan Hospital (NY)

St. Peter's University Hospital (NJ)

Columbia Hospital/Palms West Hospital (FL)

Wilson Memorial Regional (NY)

St. Joseph's Mercy Hospital (MI)

Naval Hospital Porsmouth (VA)

TUCOM-CA/Valley Hospital Medical Center (NV)

Pitt County Memorial (NC)

Madigan Army Medical Center (WA)

San Diego Medical Center (CA)

University of California (CA)

William Beaumont Army Medical Center (TX)

Southampton hospital (NY) x2

Henry Ford Wyandotte Hospital (MI)

Coney Island Hospital (NY)

Santa Barbara Cottage (CA)

Inova Fairfax Hospital (D.C.)

University of Hawaii

Genesys Regional Medical Center (MI)

Berkshire Medical Center (MA)

Case Western/Metrohealth Medical Center (OH)

 

I hope you'll get to meet him DubZter.

[Mashmetoo]

Recently added document straight from MSU website:

 

http://www.com.msu.edu/admissions/InformationforCanadianApplicants.pdf

 

Canadian Applicants

Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine (MSUCOM) plans to recruit 20-25 qualified Canadian students each year over the next several years to help promote osteopathic medicine in Canada. Graduates of MSUCOM as well as other American Osteopathic Association accredited osteopathic medical schools are entitled to full practice in Canada. They are allowed entrance to the Medical Council of Canada, the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada, and the College of Family Physicians of Canada examinations. These graduates can complete post-graduate training in Canada or the United States. They are eligible to practice through the various Colleges of Physicians and Surgeons across Canada and are given the same practice rights as their allopathic (M.D.) colleagues. MSUCOM has taken the initiative to recruit qualified Canadian applicants and has set a special tuition rate for these students through scholarships. Interested applicants are encouraged to review scholarship information on the MSUCOM webpage (http:http://www.com.msu.edu/ss/scholarships.html).

MSUCOM and the Canadian Osteopathic Association encourage applicants to review all prerequisite requirements. MSUCOM offers admission on a rolling basis and as such it is beneficial to have application ready for submission when the application cycle begins, typically in May, for the following summer start.

[prostatitis]

What's a typical Canadian matriculant's stat in terms of GPA and MCAT?

I have a very low GPA of 3.1 and an unimpressive MCAT of 33M. With very little volunteer work, should I apply early or take some time to up my stats a bit, or do I even have a chance?

[Der Kaiser]

I think typical stats would be hovering at 3.7ish GOA and 32 (balanced MCAT), there is some data on this somewhere on the AAMC website. 3.1 would probably be low even for a US citizen, so it might be worth while to boost that GPA, and MCAT, or maybe apply to international schools?

 

This is for DO? Avg. MCAT for Canadians would seem to be at least 3 points higher than the avg. for Canadians then. GPA about 0.1 -0.2 points.

[deathvvv]

Not sure for DO schools

but avg matriculant for MD schools, according to AAMC, is 3.7/33

[Mashmetoo]

another little noticed but game changing update from the AOA

 

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/news-and-publications/blogs/presidents-blog/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=34

 

At the AOA's Midyear meeting in January, AACOM announced that the AAMC is opening its Visiting Student Application Service (VSAS) to osteopathic medical schools/osteopathic medical students beginning in 2012. AACOM and AAMC are currently working on the implementation details.

 

The VSAS is the elective rotation application service used by the allopathic schools. Apparantly, DOs did not have access to it before, but in 2012, we will! Basically this means that DOs will have greater access to opportunities available in the MD world, and greater success at obtaining ACGME residencies.

[prostatitis]

...

When you applied, was your AACOMAS GPA different from you U of T GPA?

[Mashmetoo]

When you applied, was your AACOMAS GPA different from you U of T GPA?

 

It ended up being almost the same but a bit higher for AACOMAS (since I added my Ryerson course credits which boosted my cGPA by a bit).

[prostatitis]

It ended up being almost the same but a bit higher for AACOMAS (since I added my Ryerson course credits which boosted my cGPA by a bit).

The AACOMAS information book says students from Canadian universities that use a 4.0 gpa scale don't have to evaluate their transcript using WES, but from what I gather from individual schools' websites, they don't seem to make the distinction. Did you have to use WES? And did you have to explain one year of whatever course plus lab is only given 6 hours not 8?

[Mashmetoo]

The AACOMAS information book says students from Canadian universities that use a 4.0 gpa scale don't have to evaluate their transcript using WES, but from what I gather from individual schools' websites, they don't seem to make the distinction. Did you have to use WES? And did you have to explain one year of whatever course plus lab is only given 6 hours not 8?

 

No WES for Canadian credits. And yes, while filling out your application forms on AACOMAS, indicate if it has a lab or not.

[Mashmetoo]

http://www.nymc.edu/Touro-NYMC.html

 

 

New York, N.Y., May 25, 2011 – New York Medical College (NYMC), one of the nation’s oldest private health sciences universities, officially became part of the Touro College and University System today, creating one of the largest affiliations of medical and health education and biological studies programs under one institutional banner. The Touro College and University System, now including NYMC, will educate approximately 5,300 students in medicine, health, and the biological sciences.

 

Chartered in 1970 and headquartered in New York City, Touro is America’s largest, not-for-profit, independent institution of higher and professional education under Jewish auspices, now with approximately 19,000 students studying at 32 locations in New York, California, Nevada, and other states, as well as campuses abroad. In addition to a law school, graduate schools in several other disciplines, and an array of undergraduate schools, Touro operates three colleges of osteopathic medicine and two colleges of pharmacy, and offers programs around the country that train students to work in a variety of allied health professions such as physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech-language pathology, nursing, physician assistantship, public health, and other areas.

 

[zigma]

Hi mashmetoo,

 

I have some questions as to the licensure path as a DO back to Canada:

 

1>. Attend 1st and 2nd year DO school

2>. Do COMLEX-1 exam at the end of 2nd year

3>. Do 3rd year and 4th year

4>. Do COMLEX-2 after 4th year.

5>. Do COMLEX-3 after starting residency (is this correct? or should it be done after residency?)

 

6>. During 3rd year rotations, is this a competitive process or will the school tell you where to go? I read in the other forum that we can do this in Canada? If so, how do we apply for this? and if possible, where will we do our rotations? Won't it take up space for the Canadian students?

 

7>. During 4th year electives, how does this work? are we responsible of applying on our own or do we simply tell the school what field we're interested in and they will set things up for us? Can we do this in Canada? If so, how do we apply for this (is this competitive process?) and where do we do this?

 

8>. I believe that at the beginning at 4th year, we need to apply for residencies which means applying to ACGME, AOA, and CARMS. This means that we need to do USMLE-1,2,3, and MCCEE and MCCQE-1 and 2.

Where in the timelime do you think we should do these exams?

[Mashmetoo]

Hi mashmetoo,

 

I have some questions as to the licensure path as a DO back to Canada:

 

1>. Attend 1st and 2nd year DO school

2>. Do COMLEX-1 exam at the end of 2nd year

3>. Do 3rd year and 4th year

4>. Do COMLEX-2 after 4th year.

5>. Do COMLEX-3 after starting residency (is this correct? or should it be done after residency?)

 

6>. During 3rd year rotations, is this a competitive process or will the school tell you where to go? I read in the other forum that we can do this in Canada? If so, how do we apply for this? and if possible, where will we do our rotations? Won't it take up space for the Canadian students?

 

7>. During 4th year electives, how does this work? are we responsible of applying on our own or do we simply tell the school what field we're interested in and they will set things up for us? Can we do this in Canada? If so, how do we apply for this (is this competitive process?) and where do we do this?

 

8>. I believe that at the beginning at 4th year, we need to apply for residencies which means applying to ACGME, AOA, and CARMS. This means that we need to do USMLE-1,2,3, and MCCEE and MCCQE-1 and 2.

Where in the timelime do you think we should do these exams?

 

There's no reason why you can't write USMLE step 1 along with COMLEX 1 in end of 2nd year. Also, you write COMLEX 2, USMLE step 2 in end of 3rd year. COMLEX 3/ USMLE 3 is for 4th year or PGY1 (depending on the state). You pretty much have to write the USMLEs to have any shot at returning to Canada in the present time - only ACGME residencies are accepted, you can't practice in Canada with AOA residency training - so the COMLEX exams, for now, are needed in order to pass USDO school (a requirement).

 

3rd year rotations, my understanding is that the school sends you to their designated rotation sites. 4th year, you can go wild on elective rotations (anywhere, Canada, US, etc). Remember now, you are going to a US med school, so their primary goal is to have you rotate in the US, not Canada. To play the Canada card, you'd most likely have to contact Canadian institutions yourself, or better yet, matriculate in a US DO school with lots of Canadian 4th year elective rotation support - i.e., Western U

 

Also, you'd have to write the MCCEE, and most people do it along with the COMLEX 2/ USMLE2.. soo, ya 3 exams in that year.

 

PS - new section added to the first page, take a look - I ran out of space for the character limit per post, so had to resort to posting images to get the message out.

[Mashmetoo]

A light hearted post from the Western University of Health Sciences:

 

Several members of the College of Podiatric Medicine’s Class of 2014 appeared in the audience of “The Price is Right” on CBS on Thursday, June 2. One of the group, Pamela Hong, was told to “Come on down!”, and had the winning bid on an iPhone4, sending her onstage with host Drew Carey.

 

The link to the video is here: http://www.cbs.com/daytime/the_price_is_right/video/?pid=bTYb_0P6toI2C2WwBdIoEluzL_m3uTL6&nrd=1. The CPM group appears at the episode’s opening – they’re in bright yellow shirts – and Pamela “comes on down” at the 18:20 mark. She appears again at 24:10, at 32:40 – where she gives a shout-out to the DPM Class of 2014 – and then toward the end.

 

If you don’t want to watch all that, I’ll just tell you that it gets a lot better from the initial “come on down.”

 

Pamela went on to successfully play the “One Away” game, winning a 2012 Honda Accord, then won her round of the “big wheel” spin and was one of two contestants in the concluding showcase. Her winning showcase bid of $27,000 --- just $565 lower than “the actual retail price” of her showcase – earned her Swiss Army watches, a trip to New York City, and a 2012 Ford Mustang. For the day, that was an iPhone4, watches, a NYC trip and two cars, for a total of $52,091 in prizes. So if you need a ride somewhere, she’s the one to call.

 

Anyways, I know her, and I saw her work in the gross anatomy cadaver lab... the woman can work a bone saw like no other <3.

[donalde]

When applying to DO schools, how early is "applying early"?? I plan on submitting my primaries in a couple weeks but don't want to ask for a reference from the doctor immediately as I just started working for him recently. How soon should I be marked complete for my secondaries??

[donalde]

Sorry -- that should read submitting my primaries within a week!

[Mashmetoo]

From what I remember, the application and submission of reference letters are 2 completely separate things. You can submit the application without any letters. I would do it soon as it takes around a month for them to confirm your info. You want to be early, as early as possible. Every day counts.

 

I got my reference letters into interfolio (you need to use it) almost 2 months after my application got confirmed.

[ShootingStar]

Alright folks, time for another quick update. Remember when I updated that MSU (Michigan State University) will be recruiting 20-25 Canadian students a year and setting a special tuition rate for them in order to promote Osteopathic medicine in Canada? Well, as of 2011, they have accepted 16 Canadians into their class of 2015, and they will also be reducing their tuition by 20,000 dollars. This is pretty big news as I'm fairly certain that no other DO schools in the US currently have 16 Canadians in a SINGLE CLASS.

 

Until next time!

 

Hey Mashmetoo, I couldn't find this information anywhere, would you mind linking me? I also couldn't find the no interview policy anywhere... Fail on my part I know...

 

Thanks!

[shikimate]

http://www.osteopathic.ca/

 

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