No Hopes? Lost.

[chany]

Hi,

I'm looking for some help and advice...

I'm a student from UofT that has messed up her academic career. It's going to be my third year at UofT this upcoming Fall, but I'm still considered a 2nd year student because I've failed some courses in first year and went into probation. Coming into university, I was planning to pursue into medical school but I think hopes are all shattered.

 

I had a cGPA of 1.23 in 1st year. The reason being is simply having a hard time adjusting to school, long commuting hours, exhaustion, and picking the wrong courses. In the second school year, I took only three courses and ended up out of probation with a cGPA of 1.64. It's a slow climb but the goal was to save myself from probation.

 

I'm planning for my third year at UofT, but I am still considered a 2nd year student. Is there any hope for medical school? Should I look into doing a Masters instead? Anyone that can recommend next steps? I don't think it will be possible for me to finish undergrad in four years, do MedSchools require a strict four year program?

 

Thanks thanks

[A-Stark]

There's always "hope", but you should focus on finishing your degree and improving your academic performance. Those need to come first.

[Leon]

I don't want to come off as negative, but it's virtually impossible to enter meds with such a low GPA. And your mix of incomplete courseloads and failed courses will only harm it further.

Technically, there is still "hope" but it's almost negligible. Do you have any extenuating circumstances to justify your marks? That could be your only shot.

 

I suggest you first try to overcome whatever difficulties you are having and GREATLY boost your GPA to 3.0+ (preferably 3.6+). I'm not sure about Masters' requirements but I believe they, too, require fairly competitive GPAs.

Other than that, there are many other careers out there, even in the healthcare field. Explore your options, talk to Academic Advice on campus, research and see if there is anything else you find interesting.

 

If not, a second undergrad is also an option but I would not go that way unless I was sure I could get 3.7+ in each academic year. Medicine is getting more and more competitive with every passing year so consider well, and good luck.

 

(Some schools will take only certain years of your undergrad into consideration. Either way, doing as best as you can from now on is your safest route to any destination)

[deeman101]

If you're thinking about med then your only hope is at schools that count 2 best/most recent full courseload years and doing well on the mcat. That's pretty much all you have left.

[TheFonz]

If you're thinking about med then your only hope is at schools that count 2 best/most recent full courseload years and doing well on the mcat. That's pretty much all you have left.

 

I agree, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. I know plenty of people who have had brutal initial years of undergrad, but are accepted to med after significant improvement. Some have cGPAs of 2.8-3.0, but really rocked their last couple years of undergrad, and their MCAT.

 

But as others have said, this is highly contingent upon YOU. Put the past behind you, and move forward and do very well in your classes and the MCAT. It might take an extra year of undergrad, or a second undergrad (I highly recommend against grad studies for the purposes of improving your grades), or multiple writes of the MCAT, but if you want it badly enough, you can definitely do it.

 

If you're looking for motivation, I highly recommend reading this thread: http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41658

 

Lots of great stories from non-traditional pre-meds. Many of whom (for whatever reason) bombed their early years of undergrad, but came back very strong. Hopefully you can add your story to it one day as well. Best of luck.

[UTPEOPLE]

Hi,

I'm looking for some help and advice...

I'm a student from UofT that has messed up her academic career. It's going to be my third year at UofT this upcoming Fall, but I'm still considered a 2nd year student because I've failed some courses in first year and went into probation. Coming into university, I was planning to pursue into medical school but I think hopes are all shattered.

 

I had a cGPA of 1.23 in 1st year. The reason being is simply having a hard time adjusting to school, long commuting hours, exhaustion, and picking the wrong courses. In the second school year, I took only three courses and ended up out of probation with a cGPA of 1.64. It's a slow climb but the goal was to save myself from probation.

 

I'm planning for my third year at UofT, but I am still considered a 2nd year student. Is there any hope for medical school? Should I look into doing a Masters instead? Anyone that can recommend next steps? I don't think it will be possible for me to finish undergrad in four years, do MedSchools require a strict four year program?

 

Thanks thanks

 

This is brutal... although med is your dream... without significant improvement, perhaps you should think about pursuing another career.

 

Getting into med for you will ideally involve the following things:

 

1. Great last two years of UG

2. Great MCAT

 

Optional: Truly extenuating circumstances to appeal for schools like UT (was "adjusting" all it was? was there a family problem involved? etc)

[miss_indep]

I agree, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. I know plenty of people who have had brutal initial years of undergrad, but are accepted to med after significant improvement. Some have cGPAs of 2.8-3.0, but really rocked their last couple years of undergrad, and their MCAT.

 

But as others have said, this is highly contingent upon YOU. Put the past behind you, and move forward and do very well in your classes and the MCAT. It might take an extra year of undergrad, or a second undergrad (I highly recommend against grad studies for the purposes of improving your grades), or multiple writes of the MCAT, but if you want it badly enough, you can definitely do it.

 

If you're looking for motivation, I highly recommend reading this thread: http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41658

 

Lots of great stories from non-traditional pre-meds. Many of whom (for whatever reason) bombed their early years of undergrad, but came back very strong. Hopefully you can add your story to it one day as well. Best of luck.

 

Hey. Just curious about something, you mentioned that you wouldnt advise masters to improve chances, just wondering why this is. Dont you receive bonus points and face a less competitive pool as a grad strudent? Why would extra years be more beneficial?

[TheFonz]

Hey. Just curious about something, you mentioned that you wouldnt advise masters to improve chances, just wondering why this is. Dont you receive bonus points and face a less competitive pool as a grad strudent? Why would extra years be more beneficial?

 

That is true, but UG grades are still king (along with the MCAT) when it comes to making cut-offs. The grad forum has a sticky which highlights the advantages of doing a grad degree. You will notice that grad grades count for very little in the grand scheme of things. Grad work, however, is amazing for providing you with maturity and research experience, which will help you in interviews, essays and ABS. However if your undergrad grades are still way too low, a grad degree will add very little, as you won't get to the interview stage to use it to its total potential. Not to mention doing grad work is an immense commitment. IMO, that time would be better spent upgrading your marks.

[UTPEOPLE]

Hey. Just curious about something, you mentioned that you wouldnt advise masters to improve chances, just wondering why this is. Dont you receive bonus points and face a less competitive pool as a grad strudent? Why would extra years be more beneficial?

 

the GPA of bonus years can be used to pull UG GPA up. Masters GPA cant be used in this way.

 

Masters applicants do get a bonus, but with a bad GPA, OP wont make the cut off anyway to even qualify.

 

furthermore, many med schools are getting rid of graduate streams (ottawa just lost it this year), meaning that having a graduate degree will add nothing (aside from life experience) to an application at these schools.

[dbjones]

You have a long and arduous journey ahead of you.

You must reflect on this decision completely and fully commit to it.

It is imperative that you improve that GPA drastically in your third and fourth year. After which you can apply to several schools that take the best/last two years. At least a 3.75 in each year.

It can be done.

[PreMedJunkie]

There is hope. Go to your campus medial center. Talk to a mental health councilor on your campus. Discuss what happened, and why your marks have suffered. They will probably refer you to a therapist who will help you fix things.

 

You may have your academic record wiped clean due to the circumstances. Had a freind do this, and got two years of his bad marks erased.

[Prothrombin]

Impossible is nothing (registered trademark of Nike). Seriously though all you need are two solid 3.75+ GPA years of university, some good EC's and a good MCAT and you will have a good shot at acceptance. Remember, adcoms not only look at consistency but TRENDS. If you can come out of 4th year with your 3rd and 4th year GPA around a 3.8 the adcoms might like that and may take notice at your increased dedication and commitment. You may have to take an extra year like me, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

[Rext]

There is hope. Go to your campus medial center. Talk to a mental health councilor on your campus. Discuss what happened, and why your marks have suffered. They will probably refer you to a therapist who will help you fix things.

 

You may have your academic record wiped clean due to the circumstances. Had a freind do this, and got two years of his bad marks erased.

 

Coming from UTSG, the most basic principle that the administration and the governing council adheres to would be skepticism (and I would assume this to be true for all reputable universities across the world). Just claiming "mental instability" will definitely not suffice to have entire academic years wiped off your record. You will need documentation (e.g. previous medical evaluations, psychological assessments, etc.)

 

 

To OP: I second the previous recommendations of transferring. If location is an issue, both York and Ryerson are fairly close to UTSG. Another course of action would be to consult your registrar's office and book an appointment for academic counseling. I'm sure issues like the your's aren't unique and thus the registrar would be better equipped to discuss your options with you.

 

Side note: Does UoT's weighting formula apply if you have transfer credits???

[PreMedJunkie]

Just claiming "mental instability" will definitely not suffice to have entire academic years wiped off your record. You will need documentation (e.g. previous medical evaluations, psychological assessments, etc.)

 

Seen it done, and yes there were tests etc. Claim was not mental instability. Claim was very similar to situation the original poster described. Head was not in the game, too immature at the time, etc.

[cgy_guy23]

I agree with most of the other posts...starting another degree is your best bet...the courses you failed screw you up for prereqs and prevent you from taking the appropriate year courses...instead of wasting more money on another 2 or 3 years - and you may not even be able to raise your grade to the close to 4.0 you would need - it will be much easier to just have a fresh new start at a new campus. You will also be more familiar with university and hopefully know what your strengths and weaknesses are and how to study effectively/perform well on exams. Also keep in mind that medical schools look at all degrees equally...perhaps your current degree is not the right one for you? Many med schools do have certain course requirements so make sure to make a note of what these are and work them into your schedule but there are many students from 'unconventional' degrees like psychology, the humanities, the arts etc. It is possible and don't give up on your dream. While not giving up is important, it is also important to be realistic. On your second try if you are still getting below a 2.0 GPA perhaps academia is not the right path for you? Unfortunately, a lot of people with 3.6+ GPA do not even get in...whether you have the capability is something only you can really answer; having an ambition and dream is great, but sometimes we must accept that all of our dreams cannot come true. Either way good luck and I wish you the best in your future.

[st8ic]

I agree with the second-undergrad option. Getting them to pardon your current transcript is unlikely, and getting in with this GPA is nearly impossible. Do another degree and, if possible, switch your major to something that you find more interesting and that you'll get the grades more easily in.

[shannn]

I think your only option will be to:

1. Get off probation so you can start taking a full course load again (I'm pretty sure you can only take 4.0 FCE's), which will take at least a year and a summer

2. Pull up your remaining years above 3.8 (you'll need at least 2 years for that)

3. Do well on the MCAT

4. Possibly consider getting a 2nd degree

 

the problem is that you won't be able to transfer anywhere because your GPA is way too low (you'll need at least a cgpa of 2.7 at the minumum, but most uni's won't allow it without a 3)

 

if med is what you really want, be prepared for a long road (or go to the Carribean/Ireland)

[Kandi]

But I dont understand let say he gets 4.0 in his next two years and ace the MCAT with 40+ S/T scores I know it's hard but it's possible, wouldn't he has a legit shot at Western, Queens or Ottawa if he do an extra year and pull off a good GPA?

[shannn]

But I dont understand let say he gets 4.0 in his next two years and ace the MCAT with 40+ S/T scores I know it's hard but it's possible, wouldn't he has a legit shot at Western, Queens or Ottawa if he do an extra year and pull off a good GPA?

 

Not possible in the next 2 years because:

a) when on probation, you can't take 5FCE's, so that eliminates Western

school's won't look at your current year marks (so Queen's GPA calculation for the last 2 years won't apply)

 

It will take a minimum 3 years for Queen's/Western, assuming:

a) Get off probation and take a full course load again (5 FCE's)

able to get a really good GPA and able to convocate (3.8+)

c) do well enough on the MCAT

And it would take another year to be applicable to Ottawa with a competitive GPA

 

Not saying it is impossible, but it is definitely an uphill battle from here that will require a lot of focus

 

And if the OP does not get off probation, they risk getting kicked out of university and not being able to reapply for a long while (pretty much not allowed into another Ontario university for a while, not sure about OOP uni's though)

[Kandi]

For UofT the maximum credits you can take is 5FCE's when you on probation so that just matches what Western requires. And as far as Queens and Ottawa I admit you do need an extra year, but I've seen alot of people got in just by applying to one school so, don't forget he's considered as a non-traditional pre-meds. And I believe if you can get accept to Queens or Ottawa there's no reason why you can't get accept from Western, it doesn't matter how many schools you can apply if you are that talented and passionate one school is enough, and there ARE people in this kind of scenario and eventually get accept it. I have a friend who had similar situation and got accepted to Western and every time he mentioned to us he got emotional at it, I mean we choose to go to medicine, not because they are easy, but because they are hard. It's not end of the world just focus on your two senior year classes and MCAT you should be fine.

[shannn]

For UofT the maximum credits you can take is 5FCE's when you on probation so that just matches what Western requires. And as far as Queens and Ottawa I admit you do need an extra year, but I've seen alot of people got in just by applying to one school so, don't forget he's considered as a non-traditional pre-meds. And I believe if you can get accept to Queens or Ottawa there's no reason why you can't get accept from Western, it doesn't matter how many schools you can apply if you are that talented and passionate one school is enough, and there ARE people in this kind of scenario and eventually get accept it. I have a friend who had similar situation and got accepted to Western and every time he mentioned to us he got emotional at it, I mean we choose to go to medicine, not because they are easy, but because they are hard. It's not end of the world just focus on your two senior year classes and MCAT you should be fine.

 

Oh, I guess they changed their policy, when I was at UT you could only take 4 FCE's on probation.

[Kandi]

Just realize that he is out of probation already so two more years to go.

[Kandi]

Oh, I guess they changed their policy, when I was at UT you could only take 4 FCE's on probation.

lol i found from the UT arts and science calender: NOTE: Students “On Academic Probation” may take no more than five courses in each of the Fall and Winter Sessions.

[tickytacky23]

Seen it done, and yes there were tests etc. Claim was not mental instability. Claim was very similar to situation the original poster described. Head was not in the game, too immature at the time, etc.

 

If that's true, I'm sorry but things like that really tick me off. How is that fair to get your transcript wiped clean b/c they were too immature to be in university??

 

I had to appeal a few grades for legit reasons b/c of severe illness, and it was not easy. That is just frustrating to read.

 

To the OP, please don't go appealing grades and trying to get your transcript "wiped clean" if all it was was being too immature to be in university/partying, etc etc etc.

 

If that is the case, don't appeal your grades, just suck it up, it is what it is, get better grades for the next 2 years and you'll be well on your way. Appealing grades b/c of immaturity is an insult to all the people who have struggled in university who were mature enough to be there but had to appeal grades and deal with an injury, illness, or loss.

[A-Stark]

I agree that "immaturity" is a poor reason for grade adjustments - in any case, I don't see that happening. I don't know if it helps the OP to think about medicine as an end goal, but that is not a realistic option at the moment. You need to be able to succeed in university before professional or grad school are even on the table, and while it's possible, it sure doesn't seem likely right now.