Coming back to Canada from a European/Australian Dental School

[Swollof]

Hi,

 

I'm a Canadian citizen applying to a broad spectrum of dental schools, including Canadian, American, Irish, English, and Australian schools. I wouldn't mind going to any of these countries outside North America, however I know that it is very difficult coming back to Canada and getting licensure without going through one of the international qualifying programs at some Canadian school and taking an extra 2 years just so I could practice here.

 

Recently though I just read about (at least in Canada off the NDEB website ) the NDEB equivalency process, which acts as an alternative to one of the qualifying programs.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this mean that one can simply take this "process" which consists of several exams instead of having to go through two more years of dental school??? Can any graduate from an outside institution do this?

 

Thanks very much.

[Swollof]

Sorry, but do you mean if you're not a Canadian citizen already? I don't quite follow...

[opal187]

I'd say contact the CDA to get the best answer.. I tried looking around when I looked into this, but didn't really see anything around it.

 

On another note, the 2 year upgrade was the primary reason I didn't want to go overseas. Especially since in Europe the dental programs are 5 years.. so that would be a total of 7 years. Personally, I don't think it's worth it if you've already done a 4 year Bachelors here, since the 5 year programs are meant for students who have graduated directly out of highschool. So if you really don't have a shot in Canada, work on your extra-curriculars, shadowing, and get some decent references for the U.S. schools, because it is possible to get in there!!

 

Good luck!!

[opal187]

Holy crap - I should've looked at the link you posted before .. that seems like a LOT of testing and money.. one of the assessments is like $4000! But there's no info on the 2 year courses - so the tuition for that is probably way higher.

 

To actually answer your question: Yes, I think that you can 'simply' choose that route, but I use simply loosely, since certifications are never simple!

[riazo]

If your applying outside of North America, I would recommend Australian Dental schools. They are now fully accredited in Canada. The CDAC and the Australian Dental Council signed a reciprocal agreement recently, so anyone graduating from Australian dental schools can now practice in Canada, and vice versa.

 

This agreement only applies to any graduating after May 1, 2010. You can contact the CDAC to confirm this. We have been informed of this here at our university (Sydney) and many students have contacted the CDAC to confirm.

 

If you graduate from an Australian school, all you have to write is the NDEB exam to gain a license in Canada. You DO NOT have to go through the equivalency process, or complete the 2 year qualifying programs.

[Teamplayer7]

Australian University, still not a viable option. There is no Guarantee that when you graduate you will be able to work in Canada even after you write the test.

 

Australia is one of the most expensive places to live in the world.....depends on what city...looking @ $800 - 2k a month

 

Australia tuition + Books will cost roughly $60K a year when its all said and done if you start in 2010.

 

Good luck getting any bank to loan you the money for a school in one of the most desirable places to live in the world! They are not going to risk it unless your parents have cash on hand as collateral.

 

Take an extra year to upgrade and reapply to a canadian school or go to a much cheaper American school.

 

Everyone I know in OZ Dental school is wishing they did.

[Dr Pepper]

until now, I thought "accredited dental programs in Canada" were only the 10 Canadian dental schools which offer DDS/DMD degrees.

 

then i went to this site http://www.cda-adc.ca/cdacweb/en/search_for_accredited_programs/ and it seems like there r many many acccredited programs (seems like 100+) including dental hygiene programs, and from the NDEB site it seems to suggest that any ppl who graduate from an accredited dental program can write NDEB without doing anything extra, just like the DDS/DMD holders, and practice in Canada as a general dentist.

 

is this true? if so, anyone know how many become a dentist thru this path? just curious, cuz i thought getting that DDS/DMD was the only way to b a dentist without going thru extra steps. and also wondering because this may actually take shorter to be a dentist?!?

[AMCBold]

Dr Pepper, I think you might have mistaken. There is no real shorter way. Even if you're a Dental Hygienist or Dental Therapist, and you'd like to become a dentist, you must complete a DDS/DMD program. I've never heard of any convoluted back road to becoming a dentist any other way. It probably just meant getting licensed to practice as a hygienist.

 

Plus I found this site that lists all accredited schools in States and Canada: http://www.dentalwatch.org/org/schools.html

 

I know a friend of a friend who's applying to Puerto Rico because it's easier to get in with lower marks yet it is still accredited.

 

Also know two acquaintances doing dental school in Budapest at an international school called Semmelweis. One assured me that it was 'accredited' but I failed to find any proof online of this. For your best bet, any school outside of Canada and United States are generally NOT accredited.

[Swollof]

Wow... check this out. Maybe the CDC will recognize the ADC (Australian Dental Council) in the near future.

 

http://www.cda-adc.ca/cdacweb/_files/constituency_report_2009.pdf

 

Go to the bottom of page 4.

 

What do you think?

[riazo]

Teamplayer7, I would have to strongly disagree with you. Things have changed significantly in the past few months. As I mentioned earlier, the CDAC and ADC have already signed a reciprocal agreement (yes Swollowf, the agreement in principle mentioned in that document, has now been signed as of May 1, 2010). This means that only students graduating from Canadian, American, and NOW Australian dental schools are eligible to write the NDEB national board exam. This exam (written and OSCE) is required in order to gain a general dentistry license in any province in Canada. This is the same exam that every Canadian dental student writes in their last year, and the pass rate is extremely high (i believe well over 90%). This is NOT the same exam as the equivalency process that has just been introduced. That exam, from what I have heard, is very challenging. The purpose of the equivalency process is to allow an alternative route to the 2 year qualifying programs. You have to pass the equivalency exams, and THEN you are eligible to write the NDEB. So yes, once you pass the NDEB, you may apply to any province for a license without any issues. Once again, a simple phone call to the CDAC will confirm that the new agreement is in place.

 

In terms of cost, it is very manageable, and I would argue that in fact going to an Australian school may be even cheaper than going to some American schools. For example, I'm studying at the University of Sydney and my annual tuition is $48,000 per year, plus living expenses of about $25,000 per year (my expenses this year will be just under $20,000). Sydney has the highest cost of living in Australia. Thats about $73,000 per year. Compare this to NYU dental school. Tuition is $67,500 and living expenses of about $33,500. Thats about $101,000 per year! (http://www.nyu.edu/dental/financialservices/tuitionfeesexpensesdds.html)

 

(o ya..i've quoted my tuition in Australian dollars, and obviously NYU tuition is american dollars..)

 

Now this is a lot of money no doubt. Firstly, it's nice to have savings for sure. However the majority of my finances are from Alberta Student loans and Bank LOC. If you're lucky to qualify for Alberta student loans, they will give you up to $150,000. I also have a loc from TD for $150,000 and can be raised to $200,000 if needed. So in the end, the numbers do work. And trust me, you will have no problem paying off the debt once you start working!

 

AND every person I know so far at USyd is happy to be here! Especially with the new agreement! It's a wonderful place to study Dentistry..and now having the option to work both in Australia and Canada is great!

 

My advice would be to put in your application for University of Sydney and University of Melbourne. Both programs are 4 year graduate-entry. There is also dental schools in Queensland, and Adelaide which may interest you.

[Dr Pepper]

hmm the site on u of sydney still says at the time they r not accredited in US or Canada but I guess it may not be updated.

 

so is it just canada and australia and not australia and US?

 

this may sound a bit selfish but I wonder how much further CDAC will go in approving international dental schools. from my understanding, salary of dentists or even MDs are rather very similar in US and Canada, but much higher than those in other countries. From what I 've heard, Australian dentists make like 50-100k. Also I know living cost in Australia is very high, with very high tax rate. With this in mind, wouldn't this most likely end up in one way of movements of dental students from australia to canada rather than both ways? i know dentistry is not saturated overall in Canada, but it is in most major cities, wouldn't this make it much worse? if they wanna increase the number of dentists in Canada, y don't they increase the number of seats???

 

oh im not saying u shouldn't come bak to Canada riazo loool just wondering how many from australian schools would actually wanna come bak after this implementation...

[Teamplayer7]

Line Of Credit for OZ schools (any school overseas)....you need rich parents to get. Banks will n ot loan you the money! Don't even waste your time and energy.

 

Your SL is only so big bc your from Alberta, the rest of Canada does not get a SL of that size.

 

You didn't include the moving costs to get to australia and having to visit familly within the 4 years your gone....could be a death in the familly?

 

The tuition costs your quoting are being increased next year.

 

Sydney, adaliade, queensland is very very nice but Melbourne is rainy and bad weather.

[riazo]

Ya they have not updated the admissions website at USyd. They will probably be slow on that. It took them a while to put up the link about the equivalency process.

 

As of right now, the agreement is only between Canada and Australia. I don't know what the status is with the US.

 

Overall, salaries for dentists in Australia are very similar to North America. Following graduation, we have been told to expect a starting salary ranging from about $80,000 to $100,000 per year if you are working in the private sector. An experienced associate dentist would be comfortably making over $200,000 a year. Yes, some dentists who work in the public sector do make low salaries, but that is only 5% of all dentists in Australia. Things also depend on where you want to work. Sydney is not an ideal place to stay after graduation, as the market is extremely saturated. However, places like Melbourne, Brisbane, or Adelaide are much better, plus a lower cost of living.

 

Dentists are currently listed as a profession of need in Australia. This helps to address this shortage, by allowing Canadian dentists to come here. I would expect to see some recruitment campaigns, with some really good incentives starting up to bring dentists here. There is also plans here to introduce a national dental plan.

 

I have about 15 Canadian students in my class. Talking with them, I would think about 2/3 of them would want to come back to Canada. Personally, I'm not sure at this point. I may decide to work here for a bit, and then come back. Still too early to decide. I'm just glad I have the option now.

 

I think the important thing here is get the word out to those applying to dentistry. There is a new option available. I would definately try to get into a Canadian school first. It may be worth a 2nd application as well. However, I would strongly consider an Australian school as a second option. Sure it will cost you some money, and it may take some time to find it, but it is possible. I got my LOC with TD with a co-signor who wasn't rich at all. He had a mortage, his own LOC and his salary was only $60,000. There are other factors that come in to play, most importantly that you are going to be a dentist. That is very influential. The banks know that you will be making good money once you graduate.

[dentss]

riazo, thanks for sharing this news...however i was wondering if specific Australian schools first need to receive accreditation and have their names here: http://www.ndeb.ca/en/accredited/certification_overview.htm in order for one from an Australian school to be eligible to give the NDEB...do you know if that is in the works?

[Teamplayer7]

riazo,

 

I must say I was very ignorent, its been a year since I researched this avenue. I have looked into "Australia schools again since your last post bc of what you said and things are different now. You supplied some very valuable info that I didnt know about

[Teamplayer7]

tHANK you:)

[riazo]

teamplayer7, ya no worries! Just trying to get the word out.

 

dentss, I'm not too sure about when the NDEB website will be updated. Each individual Australian school does not have to be accredited separately, as the reciprocal agreement covers all dental schools in Canada and Australia. One reason why the website has not been updated is perhaps because the Australian Dental Council website is not as thorough as the Canadian websites. The ADC doesn't provide a detailed list of approved programs on their website. So probably the NDEB hasn't provided a link on the page you mentioned.

 

I'm going to check with our international rep here at USyd and see if he has heard anything. I'm also going to see what is happening with the 4th years who are graduating this year. From what I heard, many of them plan on writing the NDEB in December this year. I wonder if they were able to register yet or not. I'll try to keep you updated.

[dentss]

teamplayer7, ya no worries! Just trying to get the word out.

 

dentss, I'm not too sure about when the NDEB website will be updated. Each individual Australian school does not have to be accredited separately, as the reciprocal agreement covers all dental schools in Canada and Australia. One reason why the website has not been updated is perhaps because the Australian Dental Council website is not as thorough as the Canadian websites. The ADC doesn't provide a detailed list of approved programs on their website. So probably the NDEB hasn't provided a link on the page you mentioned.

 

I'm going to check with our international rep here at USyd and see if he has heard anything. I'm also going to see what is happening with the 4th years who are graduating this year. From what I heard, many of them plan on writing the NDEB in December this year. I wonder if they were able to register yet or not. I'll try to keep you updated.

 

Hey riazu...just wondering if you have any updates on australian schools...thanks!

[riazo]

hey all,

 

interesting link here:

http://www.oztrekk.com/blog/?p=1241

 

word is getting out. I hope people are applying to Aussie dent schools!

[The Articulator]

I stumbled upon this thread recently and found the information very valuable. Most people told me not to apply to Australia, they told me it would be a nightmare trying to work in Canada if I decide to leave and to come back here. The information supplied here was a big sign of relief when it came time to apply.... I just found out I was ACCEPTED !!!!

[ssg8]

I stumbled upon this thread recently and found the information very valuable. Most people told me not to apply to Australia, they told me it would be a nightmare trying to work in Canada if I decide to leave and to come back here. The information supplied here was a big sign of relief when it came time to apply.... I just found out I was ACCEPTED !!!!

 

Congratulations. May I ask what your gpa was?

[riazo]

Congrats Articulator!

 

Good to hear the information helped. If you need any help with the acceptance process (deposit, loans, LOC, visa, etc..) just let me know.

 

Good luck to all those who applied. The beaches await you!!

[The Articulator]

Thanks guys,

 

I had 20s and 21s in sections of the Canadian DAT, I received a 27 on the soap carving component on the DAT. As for my academic GPA, I really don't know how they calculated it, the University I attended has an unusual 13 point scale GPA. Everyone references GPA out of 4.0, so I don't know of me giving my GPA will be of any use to you. Also I had 2 different GPAs, as I had received 2 different undergrad degrees in Biology and in Business.

 

Good luck to all who applied. Thanks for the offer on the information regarding student loans and such, I will begin to research the matter and will contact you for information when I receive the package in the mail.

[The Articulator]

Congrats Articulator!

 

Good to hear the information helped. If you need any help with the acceptance process (deposit, loans, LOC, visa, etc..) just let me know.

 

Good luck to all those who applied. The beaches await you!!

 

Hey Riazo. I have a few questions regarding the Bdent program in Sydney and also some questions about housing and such (like whats the best place to stay with regards to the camperdown and surryhills campuses). I was wondering if you can give me your email.

 

Thanks

[riazo]

just sent you a pm.

 

also, i just noticed that I didn't reply to a lot of pm's i received regarding Australian Dental school. I actually had no clue I received them ... so my apologies for not responding.

 

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask away.