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Avoiding religious topics in med school interviews


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Hi everyone,

 

I am applying next year and I was just in the midst of listing all of my work/volunteer experiences in preparation for the ABS.

I was wondering about peoples' opinions on the degree to which a potential candidate’s religion affects the selection process. The reason I ask is because I have acquired some teaching experience at a religiously affiliated elementary school in Hamilton. The school follows the Ontario curriculum but also includes Islamic teachings. Should I include this experience in my ABS? Would this generate potentially incendiary discussions in terms of the school’s belief system and how I had to integrate it in to some of my teaching methods. For example, Islam rejects the theory of evolution and firmly believes in the theory of creationism. Although I did educate the children on the theory of evolution (as part of the Ontario School Curriculum) , I also had to ensure that they understood how this theory is not consistent with the Islamic belief system.

It is sad to say but if I taught at a Catholic school, I may not have such concerns given that it is the dominant religion in Canada. I know that we have come a long way in terms of racism, sexism, and discriminatory actions towards ethnic minorities. However, we still have a long way to go and such inequalities still persist despite what the laws or admission policies state.

I would really love to include my teaching experience in my ABS as it allowed me to further strengthen my personal attributes. However, I will not include it if it means jeopardizing my chances of getting in. Any takes on this? What do you guys think?

 

I'd like to thank you all in advance for your honest opinions.

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Stop being such an idiot. No one is actively persecuting moslems, and there are plenty that I have seen in medical schools everywhere. Be yourself in an interview, avoid acting all douchy, and you will be fine.

 

Hi everyone,

 

I am applying next year and I was just in the midst of listing all of my work/volunteer experiences in preparation for the ABS.

I was wondering about peoples' opinions on the degree to which a potential candidate’s religion affects the selection process. The reason I ask is because I have acquired some teaching experience at a religiously affiliated elementary school in Hamilton. The school follows the Ontario curriculum but also includes Islamic teachings. Should I include this experience in my ABS? Would this generate potentially incendiary discussions in terms of the school’s belief system and how I had to integrate it in to some of my teaching methods. For example, Islam rejects the theory of evolution and firmly believes in the theory of creationism. Although I did educate the children on the theory of evolution (as part of the Ontario School Curriculum) , I also had to ensure that they understood how this theory is not consistent with the Islamic belief system.

It is sad to say but if I taught at a Catholic school, I may not have such concerns given that it is the dominant religion in Canada. I know that we have come a long way in terms of racism, sexism, and discriminatory actions towards ethnic minorities. However, we still have a long way to go and such inequalities still persist despite what the laws or admission policies state.

I would really love to include my teaching experience in my ABS as it allowed me to further strengthen my personal attributes. However, I will not include it if it means jeopardizing my chances of getting in. Any takes on this? What do you guys think?

 

I'd like to thank you all in advance for your honest opinions.

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Stop being such an idiot. No one is actively persecuting moslems, and there are plenty that I have seen in medical schools everywhere. Be yourself in an interview, avoid acting all douchy, and you will be fine.

 

That's really uncalled for, you're being an idiot here. The OP's question is totally valid and I understand his concerns. But what else is new with your comments Sfinch? You enjoy being an internet badass don't you.

 

To the OP: you should definitely include your experience in your resume/application file. As long as you show that you're open minded and that you're not trying to push your opinion or your religion in the secular system of ours, you will be fine.

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I'd refrain from mentioning the religious aspect and suggest you remain secular in your representation of this experience. If you don't, then you might run in to an ethical question regarding the dispersal of religious vs. scientific knowledge. Best tip for medical interviews: avoid anything that might cause your interviewers to back you into a corner. If you have to question whether or not you should be mentioning something, then you probably shouldn't mention it! Remember that you can pick and choose the aspects of your experience that you want to talk about.

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I would include it. I'm guessing that you taught mainstream subjects, in which case the "Islamic nature" of the school should have minimal impact. I'm fairly sure the adcoms won't go , "Omg, he taught at an Islamic School! We need to reject him at once.":confused:

 

Teaching can be a heavy character building experience and excluding it doesn't feel right.

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Thank you all for your honest opinions (you too, sfinch..lol...who put a porcupine up your a#$?). I do agree that I should avoid mentioning any religious aspect of the experience and attain a secular standpoint. I was merely concerned on whether or not this would be a window of opportunity for the Adcoms to ask questions that may potentially lead to a touchy discussion. I primarily taught all the mainstream subjects and was not involved in any religious studies. I initially attended and graduated from a Catholic school and I am still new to the Islamic religion. However, the school policy requires that all teachers inform the students of any discrepancies between the dominant educational discourse and the Islamic belief system regardless of whether or not they teach the religion (I won't mention that during the interview process).

Thank you all for your time and I wish you all the best in your future endeavors.

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I think the other posters have said it well. One other thing to consider: we are a multicultural society, and having doctors who can relate well to any particular cultural group are an asset to our medical system. Admissions committees are looking for a degree of cultural diversity and sensitivity in applicants, and your experience speaks well to your connection to a cultural group. I think this is a strength, not a weakness. If you can discuss your ability to balance the religious considerations of a group with the need to follow science and evidence based medicine, that will demonstrate maturity, sensitivity, and wisdom beyond that of many of your competitors.

 

Good luck!

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Stop being such an idiot. No one is actively persecuting moslems, and there are plenty that I have seen in medical schools everywhere. Be yourself in an interview, avoid acting all douchy, and you will be fine.

 

+1

 

Even though you're a pretty miserable person, this rare post of yours is good advice.

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Include to teaching experience, but avoid going into details like "Islam rejects evolution". Explicitly stating that you reject evolution will not go over well with the vast majority of educated people. Honestly, when talking to people who don't share your religious views, the less details you can impart, the better. Say it was a school, say it included Islamic beliefs, move on to stuff that isn't related to Islam.

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Include to teaching experience, but avoid going into details like "Islam rejects evolution". Explicitly stating that you reject evolution will not go over well with the vast majority of educated people. Honestly, when talking to people who don't share your religious views, the less details you can impart, the better. Say it was a school, say it included Islamic beliefs, move on to stuff that isn't related to Islam.

 

I thought educated people are usually more tolerant and accepting of others opinions and views; that's a part of our overall education.

 

I'm pretty sure the panel isn't going to discriminate against a muslim? They know general islamic beliefs and they'll generally know how islam views evolution. There's nothing to hide or stay away from. In fact, I think it might be awkward if the OP tries to scurry away from this type of topic. It would probably show lack of confidence in conversing about some pretty normal issues.

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I thought educated people are usually more tolerant and accepting of others opinions and views; that's a part of our overall education.

 

I'm pretty sure the panel isn't going to discriminate against a muslim? They know general islamic beliefs and they'll generally know how islam views evolution. There's nothing to hide or stay away from. In fact, I think it might be awkward if the OP tries to scurry away from this type of topic. It would probably show lack of confidence in conversing about some pretty normal issues.

 

When it comes to issues like evolution vs creationism, their opinion should be ridiculed, not accepted.

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I agree with those who said to include it. I volunteered in an Islamic school and I had others tell me not to include it to cut the risk of possible discrimination, but it felt wrong not to include work that I was proud of, so I included it, and I got in. Don't focus on the 'what ifs' and be yourself. If something is meant to be, it will happen regardless of any possible discrimination. If you are qualified and you show yourself to be a non-judgmental, and all-around good person, then no one can say anything against you for working with a certain group (they wouldn't do so actively anyway). My main point here is to not worry about it, and listen to your gut feeling. If you are proud of your work, be proud to put it on paper.

God bless.

 

Thank you all for your honest opinions (you too, sfinch..lol...who put a porcupine up your a#$?). I do agree that I should avoid mentioning any religious aspect of the experience and attain a secular standpoint. I was merely concerned on whether or not this would be a window of opportunity for the Adcoms to ask questions that may potentially lead to a touchy discussion. I primarily taught all the mainstream subjects and was not involved in any religious studies. I initially attended and graduated from a Catholic school and I am still new to the Islamic religion. However, the school policy requires that all teachers inform the students of any discrepancies between the dominant educational discourse and the Islamic belief system regardless of whether or not they teach the religion (I won't mention that during the interview process).

Thank you all for your time and I wish you all the best in your future endeavors.

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I agree with those who said to include it. I volunteered in an Islamic school and I had others tell me not to include it to cut the risk of possible discrimination, but it felt wrong not to include work that I was proud of, so I included it, and I got in. Don't focus on the 'what ifs' and be yourself. If something is meant to be, it will happen regardless of any possible discrimination. If you are qualified and you show yourself to be a non-judgmental, and all-around good person, then no one can say anything against you for working with a certain group (they wouldn't do so actively anyway). My main point here is to not worry about it, and listen to your gut feeling. If you are proud of your work, be proud to put it on paper.

God bless.

 

+1

Any school that is going to discriminate against you because of your beliefs or anything like that doesn't deserve to have you as a med student in the first place.

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It is deeply disturbing to me that think evolution is a matter of opinion.

 

Hahahah, I don't think it's a matter of opinion to me; I believe I know the truth. However, it is against the law (and kind of against my philosophy) to impose our beliefs on others.

 

Therefore, we have to leave it a matter of opinion.

 

But you definitely have the right to try and passively convince somebody why something is right and something is wrong by proper reasoning. Maybe you should request islamic schools to let you be a guest speaker. That'd be pretty cool.

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Hi everyone,

 

I am applying next year and I was just in the midst of listing all of my work/volunteer experiences in preparation for the ABS.

I was wondering about peoples' opinions on the degree to which a potential candidate’s religion affects the selection process. The reason I ask is because I have acquired some teaching experience at a religiously affiliated elementary school in Hamilton. The school follows the Ontario curriculum but also includes Islamic teachings. Should I include this experience in my ABS? Would this generate potentially incendiary discussions in terms of the school’s belief system and how I had to integrate it in to some of my teaching methods. For example, Islam rejects the theory of evolution and firmly believes in the theory of creationism. Although I did educate the children on the theory of evolution (as part of the Ontario School Curriculum) , I also had to ensure that they understood how this theory is not consistent with the Islamic belief system.

It is sad to say but if I taught at a Catholic school, I may not have such concerns given that it is the dominant religion in Canada. I know that we have come a long way in terms of racism, sexism, and discriminatory actions towards ethnic minorities. However, we still have a long way to go and such inequalities still persist despite what the laws or admission policies state.

I would really love to include my teaching experience in my ABS as it allowed me to further strengthen my personal attributes. However, I will not include it if it means jeopardizing my chances of getting in. Any takes on this? What do you guys think?

 

I'd like to thank you all in advance for your honest opinions.

 

If you can generalize "Islam" or ANY other religion like that, you do not deserve to get into med school. There are tons of Muslims who believe that Islam accepts theory of evolution.

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Hahahah, I don't think it's a matter of opinion to me; I believe I know the truth. However, it is against the law (and kind of against my philosophy) to impose our beliefs on others.

 

Therefore, we have to leave it a matter of opinion.

 

But you definitely have the right to try and passively convince somebody why something is right and something is wrong by proper reasoning. Maybe you should request islamic schools to let you be a guest speaker. That'd be pretty cool.

 

There's no imposing beliefs about it. I'm just saying that if someone were to say to an interviewer that they reject evolution, or think the Earth is only 6000 years old, or reject the heliocentric model of the solar system, the interview is going to consider the individual an idiot and they will be scored poorly. It's not a religious thing at all, really.

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If you can generalize "Islam" or ANY other religion like that, you do not deserve to get into med school. There are tons of Muslims who believe that Islam accepts theory of evolution.

 

A lot of Muslims do believe in the theory of evolution(I would say they are a very small minority, though), but the theory of evolution is contradictory to the Quran. I think it is far-fetched to say that Islam accepts the theory of evolution. The story of creation is clearly stated in the Quran:

 

(And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "I am going to create a man from dried (sounding) clay of altered mud. So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him the soul (which I created for him), then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him.'') [15:28-29].

 

There are also many statements in the "Prophetic Hadith" that give a detailed portrayal of how Man was created.

 

Muslims believe that the Quran is the unchanged word of God. They also believe that the portrayal of the story of creation in the Quran actually happened word-for-word(i.e. not metaphorical). As such, I think it would be impossible to find a way for the Quranic interpretation of creation to agree with the contemporary theory of Evolution.

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A lot of Muslims do believe in the theory of evolution(I would say they are a very small minority, though), but the theory of evolution is contradictory to the Quran. I think it is far-fetched to say that Islam accepts the theory of evolution. The story of creation is clearly stated in the Quran:

 

(And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "I am going to create a man from dried (sounding) clay of altered mud. So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him the soul (which I created for him), then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him.'') [15:28-29].

 

There are also many statements in the "Prophetic Hadith" that give a detailed portrayal of how Man was created.

 

Muslims believe that the Quran is the unchanged word of God. They also believe that the portrayal of the story of creation in the Quran actually happened word-for-word(i.e. not metaphorical). As such, I think it would be impossible to find a way for the Quranic interpretation of creation to agree with the contemporary theory of Evolution.

 

Muslims who accept theory of evolution have following arguments:

 

Quran accepts that some of its verses are allegorical. Hence the creation verses are allegorical. Secondly, one of Muslims' God's name is The Evolver (Al-Bari), hence evolution is not inconceivable for a Muslim. Thirdly, Quran says that Muslims' God creates in stages. This could include man as well.

 

Hence it is not far-fetched for these pro-evolution Muslims to make those claims.

 

And I never said Islam accepts theory of evolution, I am not eligible to speak on "Islam's" behalf. I said that many Muslims (who are humans) accept that Islam accepts theory of evolution. Is the OP allowed to speak for Islam that he/she had to say that "Islam firmly believes so and so?" Since I am a humanist, I will let humans of particular religion to speak about their religion.

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Muslims who accept theory of evolution have following arguments:

 

Quran accepts that some of its verses are allegorical. Hence the creation verses are allegorical. Secondly, one of Muslims' God's name is The Evolver (Al-Bari), hence evolution is not inconceivable for a Muslim. Thirdly, Quran says that Muslims' God creates in stages. This could include man as well.

 

Hence it is not far-fetched for these pro-evolution Muslims to make those claims.

 

And I never said Islam accepts theory of evolution, I am not eligible to speak on "Islam's" behalf. I said that many Muslims accept that Islam accepts theory of evolution. Is the OP allowed to speak for Islam that he/she had to say that "Islam firmly believes so and so?"

 

Ah, the old "god exists, and evolution is his way of creating life" cop out by the religious. They were brainwashed into believing in a fairy man in the sky when they were a kid, but the idea of creationism is so retarded that it can't be true, so they attempt to reconcile the fact by bringing evolution and god together. Weak.

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I apologize in advance, haven't read much of the Quaran - but aren't the 'days' mentioned in the six day thing kind of like in the jewish/christian genesis/torah, where they can represent hugh amounts of time? Where a day really doesn't mean a literal day, but a 'god' day?

 

I always feel like way too much time and energy is wasted on the whole evolution thing... If an all powerful, brilliant, perfect, omniscient being feels like using the very attractive, sensible, and 'natural' tool of evolution to create all the things that are in the heavens and the earth, then why would we question it? It seems to me that if god really is so outside the realm of our own comprehension, we must look like tiny microbes waging veritable social wars over which slide stain the med student used for contrast in their first year lab... How could we be so pompous as to assume that we have figured out all of the incredbile physics (and metaphysics) used to create this universe, let alone those that just keep it running?

 

I think either some Kant or Baudrillard is in order here. :P

 

my 2 c ...

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There's no imposing beliefs about it. I'm just saying that if someone were to say to an interviewer that they reject evolution, or think the Earth is only 6000 years old, or reject the heliocentric model of the solar system, the interview is going to consider the individual an idiot and they will be scored poorly. It's not a religious thing at all, really.

 

Firstly, not believing in the theory of evolution is not the equivalent of rejecting the heliocentric model of the universe. Secondly, not believing in the theory of evolution does not imply that the Earth is only 6000 years old.

 

I find it funny when people attack people for not believing in the theory of evolution. When you attack someone for not accepting a scientific theory you make the theory your religion. Your statement makes it seem as if the theory of evolution is definitely 100% correct. You eliminate the possibility of it being partially wrong or wrong altogether. This limits the scope of scientific innovation. A couple of centuries ago, scientists would have laughed at you for saying that "spontaneous generation" was an obsolete theory. You are doing the same thing right now...

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