Non-academic letters of reference?

[astrogirl]

I keep seeing threads where people say that you should have one non-academic letter of reference. Here's my problem. The only people I can reasonably get to write me letters of reference are professors (I think). Most of my EC's happened at school because I was an international student in the US, so even though I worked 20 hours a week all through my undergrad, it was on campus. I was involved in some non-school things and organizations, but the people I did them with were students and I don't really think I should have letters from my peers.

 

Now that I'm back in Canada doing a PhD, my job is still on campus as a TA, and the only things I do that aren't on campus are swim and stuff at my church. I presented some planetarium shows at Dal this year (I'm at SMU so that's not technically my school), but once again the guy in charge of that was a professor. I'm obviously not going to get the lifeguard at the YMCA to write me a letter, and it seems like it would be kind of weird to get someone from my church to. I did work at a home for developmentally disabled adults the only two summers that I came home during undergrad, but that was quite some time ago and I'd rather have letters from people whose primary interactions with me weren't when I was still a teenager. I do a lot of random astronomy/physics/science presentations for school groups from time to time, but that doesn't really give me someone who could write a letter.

 

So I was thinking of asking Prof. A, Prof. B, and Prof. C to write me letters. They're all from the uni where I did both my bachelor's and master's in the States. Prof. A was my master's supervisor, and in addition to doing a ton of research with him I also worked with him when I was the president of the astronomy club and he was the faculty advisor, I took two classes from him, I developed planetarium shows with him, and I TA'ed his classes for several years. Prof. B was on my master's committee, I took three classes from him, and I also TA'ed for him for several years. I first worked with Prof. C as an undergrad doing some really cool research and educational outreach stuff in my second year, and then I was his grader for a year, and after that I took two classes from him. I also did a few astronomy presentations over the years for the Boy Scout troupe that he leads and a few other groups that he's involved with.

 

Any thoughts on this? Is this too academic, or is it okay because I did a balance of things with all three professors? They've all known me for almost a decade now, and I had the same three profs write me letters for both my master's and my PhD applications, so I know that they will write really good recommendations for me, because they're one of the main reasons that I got into my grad programs.

[thatonekid]

I think that when people say "non-academic reference" it's just so that your 3 letters have a balance and are not all about the grades you got at school (since they can see your transcript/GPA). If the prof(s) can write about your non-academic (as well as your academic) qualities, I would think it would be fine.

 

In my opinion, the key is to get 3 strong letters, rather than focusing on getting one academic, one non-academic, and one research. Plus, I believe that OMSAS doesn't really have any guidelines in terms of who writes the letters (other schools might) so you should be fine.

[Cnussey]

I think you will be fine, and if Prof A is who I think he is, then he will comment not only on your academic abilities, but on your personal qualities as well. Provide each with a copy of your updated resume and offer to have lunch with them if they want to ask you any questions.

 

Good luck Astrogirl And poo...thanks for reminding me it's time to hunt down refs again.

 

Edit: I'm on the other side of the coin, btw...got a lot of non-academic refs who would be great and very few academic profs--none of them know me! They're all online!

[astrogirl]

Okay good. Thanks!

 

Cnussey - prof A is actually not who you think it is, but is someone who's a lot like him. There are some freakish similarities between the two of them. But that was another big dilemma - he's only known me for three years, but these other three have known me for a lot longer and I've worked with them in more different capacities, so they have more to say about me.

[Cnussey]

Okay good. Thanks!

 

Cnussey - prof A is actually not who you think it is, but is someone who's a lot like him. There are some freakish similarities between the two of them. But that was another big dilemma - he's only known me for three years, but these other three have known me for a lot longer and I've worked with them in more different capacities, so they have more to say about me.

 

Lol--really? Omg. I can't imagine two of him! Oh dear.

 

Sometimes less is more!!! I wouldn't worry about it.

[DOC_Ma]

I think your references are stronger than average. And as long as they don't JUST mention your academic qualities, then you should be stellar with those references.

[shannn]

My strongest reference was an overlap between academic and person. She knew I was a great student (produced a publishable paper in 2nd year), and I've worked with/for her for the past 4 or so years and I've worked with her kids for the past 1 year. So she wrote me a huge letter covering my academic and personal abilities