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Cracking the NAQ code


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The way our NAQ scores are calculated seems to be one of the great mysteries of the UBC medicine application process. After reading the “stickied” thread for people that have been Accepted/Rejected/Waitlisted, I thought that it might be a good idea to get people to do the same thing for their NAQ.

 

People could write down what activities they included under what categories and how many hours they participated, and then give their resulting NAQ score underneath.

 

This would give people a better idea of what activities seem to score better and give as an idea of how to approach our application.

 

The template could look something like this:

 

Leadership:

- Activity => Hours

- Volunteering in Emergency Room => 200 hours (an example)

-

-

-

-

Capacity to Work with Others:

- Activity => Hours

-

-

-

-

-

Service Ethic:

- Activity => Hours

-

-

-

-

-

Diversity of Experiences:

- Activity => Hours

-

-

-

-

-

High Achievement in an Area of Human Endeavor:

- Activity => Hours

-

-

-

-

-

 

Work Experience:

- Activity => Hours

-

-

-

-

-

 

NAQ score =>

 

 

What does everyone think? Anyone want to be the first one to fill it out?

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I think that's a bad idea, the point of the naq is to learn about your diverse activities and what makes you uniquely qualified to study med. If we did the above, im sure pre-meds would be too tempted to just copy exactly what the high-scorers did and we would end up with tons of cookie-cutter applicants. Seriously, this is coming from someone who had multiple canadian acceptances (including ubc), just do what you enjoy and try to get some recognition for it (awards etc), do it long term and try to log hours. Also, make sure there's atleast a couple items where you actually helped others. There is no magic formula.

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I think that's a bad idea, the point of the naq is to learn about your diverse activities and what makes you uniquely qualified to study med. If we did the above, im sure pre-meds would be too tempted to just copy exactly what the high-scorers did and we would end up with tons of cookie-cutter applicants. Seriously, this is coming from someone who had multiple canadian acceptances (including ubc), just do what you enjoy and try to get some recognition for it (awards etc), do it long term and try to log hours. Also, make sure there's atleast a couple items where you actually helped others. There is no magic formula.

 

I completely agree. I've applied twice and had decent NAQ scores. They tell you on the application website what they are looking for; there is no secret formula or specific activities that will get you a bunch of points. It's very rare to score above 20, and people that do likely have something very significant on their application that really makes them stand out.

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OK- I'll bite. BUT- I want to play this game a little differently. Let's play "Guess My NAQ!"

 

I am changing this seriously for this application, and wording things differently. Really differently. I've filled out a few of the sections I was weak in, too. Last year's app, I was seriously strapped for time the whole summer (commuting 4 hours per day, taking 2 courses, working 50hrs per week, finishing up my honours project) and i didn't put the effort into this app I should have.

 

Let's play!

GUESS

MY

NAQs!!!!

 

*************************************************

 

Leadership:

- Orienteering Course Design- Meet Official- 100hrs

Hockey Camp Dryland Instructor- 40 hrs

-

 

Capacity to Work with Others:

Adventure racing- 2000 hours

-Ecospirit adventures-Group outdoor adventures- 500 hours

-

 

Service Ethic:

- Volunteer- First Responder St. John Ambulance- 100 hrs

-Volunteer fitness instructor for low income women- 200 hrs

-Joint Bicycle Advisory Committee (JBAC) rep for North vancouver- 150 hours

-Volunteer at an independent cinema- 150 hours

-

 

Diversity of Experiences:

- Firearms Possession & Acquisition License Course, Canadian Firearms Centre- 25 hours

-Conservation & Outdoor Recreation Education Course, BC Wildlife federation- 15 hours

-Spain Geological Field School- 100hrs

-Solo bike tour through Spain and Portugal- 400 hours

Orienteering- 100 hours

Solo travel in Eastern Europe- 500 hours

Bike tour Scandinavia- 720 hours

Solo travel- SE Asia- 1500 hours

Ultramarathon running- 2000 hours

-

 

High Achievement in an Area of Human Endeavor:

Ironman Triathlon- 1000 hours

-

 

Work Experience:

NOTE- hours are not listed for some reason

- Atmospheric Chemistry research- 4 months FT

Auto repair shop bookeeping- 4 yrs part-time

Personal trainer- 2 yrs FT

Manager at Sport Mart- 2 yrs, FT and PT mixed

Housekeeping at Panorama Mtn Village in Invermere- 5 months FT

-Running Room assistant manager- 20 months FT

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Hey Kyla,

 

Its tough to say, but I suppose you at least you can let me know how spot on my guess was. I would say you would score well in Diversity and get something in Human Endeavor (so few of us do, congrats on the Ironman by the way, I'd love to run one, I think I'll start smaller though)

 

I think the problem areas would be leadership and capacity (I'm not sure how adventure racing fits but I don't really know what that it is:P)

 

Assuming (since they aren't listed) you have no major awards/scholarships/publications then my guess is an 11-12 which is based on my previous score. Am I close?

 

I posted up my current activities on a thread called 'NAQ projection' let me know how I stack up ;)

 

OK- I'll bite. BUT- I want to play this game a little differently. Let's play "Guess My NAQ!"

 

I am changing this seriously for this application, and wording things differently. Really differently. I've filled out a few of the sections I was weak in, too. Last year's app, I was seriously strapped for time the whole summer (commuting 4 hours per day, taking 2 courses, working 50hrs per week, finishing up my honours project) and i didn't put the effort into this app I should have.

 

Let's play!

GUESS

MY

NAQs!!!!

 

*************************************************

 

Leadership:

- Orienteering Course Design- Meet Official- 100hrs

Hockey Camp Dryland Instructor- 40 hrs

-

 

Capacity to Work with Others:

Adventure racing- 2000 hours

-Ecospirit adventures-Group outdoor adventures- 500 hours

-

 

Service Ethic:

- Volunteer- First Responder St. John Ambulance- 100 hrs

-Volunteer fitness instructor for low income women- 200 hrs

-Joint Bicycle Advisory Committee (JBAC) rep for North vancouver- 150 hours

-Volunteer at an independent cinema- 150 hours

-

 

Diversity of Experiences:

- Firearms Possession & Acquisition License Course, Canadian Firearms Centre- 25 hours

-Conservation & Outdoor Recreation Education Course, BC Wildlife federation- 15 hours

-Spain Geological Field School- 100hrs

-Solo bike tour through Spain and Portugal- 400 hours

Orienteering- 100 hours

Solo travel in Eastern Europe- 500 hours

Bike tour Scandinavia- 720 hours

Solo travel- SE Asia- 1500 hours

Ultramarathon running- 2000 hours

-

 

High Achievement in an Area of Human Endeavor:

Ironman Triathlon- 1000 hours

-

 

Work Experience:

NOTE- hours are not listed for some reason

- Atmospheric Chemistry research- 4 months FT

Auto repair shop bookeeping- 4 yrs part-time

Personal trainer- 2 yrs FT

Manager at Sport Mart- 2 yrs, FT and PT mixed

Housekeeping at Panorama Mtn Village in Invermere- 5 months FT

-Running Room assistant manager- 20 months FT

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OK- I'll bite. BUT- I want to play this game a little differently. Let's play "Guess My NAQ!"

 

I am changing this seriously for this application, and wording things differently. Really differently. I've filled out a few of the sections I was weak in, too. Last year's app, I was seriously strapped for time the whole summer (commuting 4 hours per day, taking 2 courses, working 50hrs per week, finishing up my honours project) and i didn't put the effort into this app I should have.

 

Let's play!

GUESS

MY

NAQs!!!!

 

*************************************************

 

Leadership:

- Orienteering Course Design- Meet Official- 100hrs

Hockey Camp Dryland Instructor- 40 hrs

-

 

Capacity to Work with Others:

Adventure racing- 2000 hours

-Ecospirit adventures-Group outdoor adventures- 500 hours

-

 

Service Ethic:

- Volunteer- First Responder St. John Ambulance- 100 hrs

-Volunteer fitness instructor for low income women- 200 hrs

-Joint Bicycle Advisory Committee (JBAC) rep for North vancouver- 150 hours

-Volunteer at an independent cinema- 150 hours

-

 

Diversity of Experiences:

- Firearms Possession & Acquisition License Course, Canadian Firearms Centre- 25 hours

-Conservation & Outdoor Recreation Education Course, BC Wildlife federation- 15 hours

-Spain Geological Field School- 100hrs

-Solo bike tour through Spain and Portugal- 400 hours

Orienteering- 100 hours

Solo travel in Eastern Europe- 500 hours

Bike tour Scandinavia- 720 hours

Solo travel- SE Asia- 1500 hours

Ultramarathon running- 2000 hours

-

 

High Achievement in an Area of Human Endeavor:

Ironman Triathlon- 1000 hours

-

 

Work Experience:

NOTE- hours are not listed for some reason

- Atmospheric Chemistry research- 4 months FT

Auto repair shop bookeeping- 4 yrs part-time

Personal trainer- 2 yrs FT

Manager at Sport Mart- 2 yrs, FT and PT mixed

Housekeeping at Panorama Mtn Village in Invermere- 5 months FT

-Running Room assistant manager- 20 months FT

 

 

Wow seems like you did quite a lot of things kylamonkey. However, there's only 2 entries in leadership and capacity to work with others, which are worth quite a few points i think... I'm guessing you might have gotten around 12-13 for NAQ?

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Wow seems like you did quite a lot of things kylamonkey. However, there's only 2 entries in leadership and capacity to work with others, which are worth quite a few points i think... I'm guessing you might have gotten around 12-13 for NAQ?

 

To follow up, my NAQ last year was 12.7.

 

It's true I have little in the leadership and working with others in my NA section, but my work history (store manager, personal trainer, running coach) I feel demonstrates those qualities.

 

I'm really playing up those aspects of the job in this year's app!

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To follow up, my NAQ last year was 12.7.

 

It's true I have little in the leadership and working with others in my NA section, but my work history (store manager, personal trainer, running coach) I feel demonstrates those qualities.

 

I'm really playing up those aspects of the job in this year's app!

 

Wow that's too bad, I really would've scored you higher. It really sucks that they don't value work experience as equally as volunteering it seems

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  • 1 month later...

not to sound like a total biat** but I'm surprised that kylamonkey's score only got her 12.5

In my application last year, I have added really random stuff from high school as well, along with few very noticeable spelling errors, and crap essay, which earned me 15.4/25

 

Unfortunately, b/c of my oop status, i missed the cutoff by exactly 1.0 (OOP cutoff was 41.4 and I scored 40.0 overall)

 

Ironically, UBC was my crappiest application but earned me the highest extracurricular scores.......

 

I must say I am indeed confused about how they mark the NAQ.

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I agree with the above post, I literally had 2 formal volunteer activities in the past ten years along with 1 informal volunteer activity. I wasn't expecting a great score but managed 18.45 (a score that high pisses me off in hindsight knowing I really must have underperformed during the MMI). It does seem pretty random how they assign points for the NAQ section.

 

My naq was raised 4 points compared to the previous year despite adding only 1 minimal thing to my EC section.

Suffice to say, without the essay I am not expecting a score that high this year. However, hopefully I never find out my NAQ score this cycle:)

 

I do have an extremely extensive work history in health care which is the highlight of my application.

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Well, since this tread is being brought back, I'm gonna comment. I disagree with the above 2 posts and say that kyla's score was appropriate. When I saw that list, the first thing that came to my mind was that this person was an outdoorsy person, fit and active. After that, I don't see much. Work experiences are just that, work. You do it to pay the bills. Unfortunate for those who aren't rich, but that's more societal problem than the application process. The "diversity" section looks like a personal interest statement more than anything else. Some of the other categories are a bit thin too.

 

I'm not trying to put you down or anything, but try to take the positives out of this. First, admissions people are very straightforward. Don't ever think that they will pick up on your "implied" cross-over of activities. What you list in each category is what they will use to grade you. So make sure you spread them around enough, while still paying attention to the categories that are weighed more. You also want to be as descriptive (yet concise) so that the full experience of your job and duties are conveyed. Second, you list ironman as a "high achievement" with 1000 hours. I'm assuming the 1000 hours are training hours. Anyone can write something like that in so the way you presented it is not gonna score you well. You have to write things like "competed in xyz contest finishing with time xyz to have placed xyz and was awarded xyz and qualified for xyz". Third, your "capacity to work with others" really doesn't tell me how you are capable of working with others. From your list, the hockey instructor and maybe the fitness instructor are more appropriate for this category, but then you are stripping away from those categories as well. If you're having these issues, it should alert you that perhaps your EC's are not as strong as you think they are and you have a lot of holes to fill. Fourth, it's nice to say that you traveled somewhere for 1500 hours. ok, whatever. So you went on a vacation for 2-3 months. It's probably more beneficial to write more detailed events you did on that trip rather than saying you traveled. Furthermore, you list traveling twice and bike traveling twice. That's a lot of valuable space you are taking up which could have been done with 1 or 2 spaces. It again reaffirms in my mind, just like an adcom's mind, that this candidate is trying to fill up space to make up for their lack of experience.

 

Bottom line, unless you have been very close to the acceptance cutoff in the past, I would suggest maybe switching gears for a year or two and go out of your comfort zone to do activities you normally wouldn't do. Your service and group work categories are a little thin and these are the easiest to fill up. While I hate to think that med school applications are formulaic and forces people to do things just for the sake of getting into med school, it is what it is and best to just go with the flow.

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Well, since this tread is being brought back, I'm gonna comment. I disagree with the above 2 posts and say that kyla's score was appropriate. When I saw that list, the first thing that came to my mind was that this person was an outdoorsy person, fit and active. After that, I don't see much. Work experiences are just that, work. You do it to pay the bills. Unfortunate for those who aren't rich, but that's more societal problem than the application process. The "diversity" section looks like a personal interest statement more than anything else. Some of the other categories are a bit thin too.

 

I'm not trying to put you down or anything, but try to take the positives out of this. First, admissions people are very straightforward. Don't ever think that they will pick up on your "implied" cross-over of activities. What you list in each category is what they will use to grade you. So make sure you spread them around enough, while still paying attention to the categories that are weighed more. You also want to be as descriptive (yet concise) so that the full experience of your job and duties are conveyed. Second, you list ironman as a "high achievement" with 1000 hours. I'm assuming the 1000 hours are training hours. Anyone can write something like that in so the way you presented it is not gonna score you well. You have to write things like "competed in xyz contest finishing with time xyz to have placed xyz and was awarded xyz and qualified for xyz". Third, your "capacity to work with others" really doesn't tell me how you are capable of working with others. From your list, the hockey instructor and maybe the fitness instructor are more appropriate for this category, but then you are stripping away from those categories as well. If you're having these issues, it should alert you that perhaps your EC's are not as strong as you think they are and you have a lot of holes to fill. Fourth, it's nice to say that you traveled somewhere for 1500 hours. ok, whatever. So you went on a vacation for 2-3 months. It's probably more beneficial to write more detailed events you did on that trip rather than saying you traveled. Furthermore, you list traveling twice and bike traveling twice. That's a lot of valuable space you are taking up which could have been done with 1 or 2 spaces. It again reaffirms in my mind, just like an adcom's mind, that this candidate is trying to fill up space to make up for their lack of experience.

 

Bottom line, unless you have been very close to the acceptance cutoff in the past, I would suggest maybe switching gears for a year or two and go out of your comfort zone to do activities you normally wouldn't do. Your service and group work categories are a little thin and these are the easiest to fill up. While I hate to think that med school applications are formulaic and forces people to do things just for the sake of getting into med school, it is what it is and best to just go with the flow.

 

Whoa there, mister, that was a full-on attack on kylamonkey. Perhaps you didn't mean it like that, but it sure came out that way.

 

Are you part of an admissions committee? Probably not, so I'd try not to sound so matter-of-fact about it. You essentially belittle any experience that is not clinically, scientifically, or medically related. With what you've said, you're essentially telling us that no one, except for traditional pre-meds who've known since forever that they've wanted to do medicine, will get a high NAQ. Perhaps you're right, perhaps you're wrong - I'm not qualified to say, and probably neither are you.

 

"Work experience is just that, work." Excuse me? Do you know how much more responsibility and maturity is required for a real paying job, than volunteering? Medicine is also business. People management, organization, and professionalism are key important traits too.

 

Your treatment of "1000s of hours of training" is also somewhat insulting. It's perfectly valid for her to claim those hours. What do you expect her to do, leave it out so the admissions committee will be left thinking she used 1000s of hours for leisure? Rumour actually has it that medical schools have high respect for athletes, musicians, and the like. You do know how hard the Ironman Triathlon is, right?

 

Also, please realize that people are only presenting their experience TITLES. You go on about how she hasn't explained how each activity has shown she can work with others, what awards she's won, or how travelling has impacted her life. That goes in the 250-350 character explanation, not the title.

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Whoa there, mister, that was a full-on attack on kylamonkey. Perhaps you didn't mean it like that, but it sure came out that way.

 

Are you part of an admissions committee? Probably not, so I'd try not to sound so matter-of-fact about it. You essentially belittle any experience that is not clinically, scientifically, or medically related. With what you've said, you're essentially telling us that no one, except for traditional pre-meds who've known since forever that they've wanted to do medicine, will get a high NAQ. Perhaps you're right, perhaps you're wrong - I'm not qualified to say, and probably neither are you.

 

"Work experience is just that, work." Excuse me? Do you know how much more responsibility and maturity is required for a real paying job, than volunteering? Medicine is also business. People management, organization, and professionalism are key important traits too.

 

Your treatment of "1000s of hours of training" is also somewhat insulting. It's perfectly valid for her to claim those hours. What do you expect her to do, leave it out so the admissions committee will be left thinking she used 1000s of hours for leisure? Rumour actually has it that medical schools have high respect for athletes, musicians, and the like. You do know how hard the Ironman Triathlon is, right?

 

Also, please realize that people are only presenting their experience TITLES. You go on about how she hasn't explained how each activity has shown she can work with others, what awards she's won, or how travelling has impacted her life. That goes in the 250-350 character explanation, not the title.

 

 

 

+ 1 000 000 ... Thousands of hours for Ironman Training certainly seems like an accomplishment to me! Congrats, kylamonkey. I personally would not have the determination to stick with it - I'm not much of an athlete.

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Whoa there, mister, that was a full-on attack on kylamonkey. Perhaps you didn't mean it like that, but it sure came out that way.

 

Are you part of an admissions committee? Probably not, so I'd try not to sound so matter-of-fact about it. You essentially belittle any experience that is not clinically, scientifically, or medically related. With what you've said, you're essentially telling us that no one, except for traditional pre-meds who've known since forever that they've wanted to do medicine, will get a high NAQ. Perhaps you're right, perhaps you're wrong - I'm not qualified to say, and probably neither are you.

 

"Work experience is just that, work." Excuse me? Do you know how much more responsibility and maturity is required for a real paying job, than volunteering? Medicine is also business. People management, organization, and professionalism are key important traits too.

 

Your treatment of "1000s of hours of training" is also somewhat insulting. It's perfectly valid for her to claim those hours. What do you expect her to do, leave it out so the admissions committee will be left thinking she used 1000s of hours for leisure? Rumour actually has it that medical schools have high respect for athletes, musicians, and the like. You do know how hard the Ironman Triathlon is, right?

 

Also, please realize that people are only presenting their experience TITLES. You go on about how she hasn't explained how each activity has shown she can work with others, what awards she's won, or how travelling has impacted her life. That goes in the 250-350 character explanation, not the title.

 

If I sounded like a full-on attack, then i apologize because that wasn't my intent. I was responding to others who are puzzled by the score kyla received since it seemed like an appropriate score for me. 12.7 isn't a bad score, but it's average for all applicants and probably not where you want to stand if you're hoping for an acceptance. I'm not belittling any experience because I do believe any experience is good experience. I never said anything about clinically, scientifically, or medically related experiences being the only way to go. However, now that you mention it, it is a good thing to have to round out and "diversify" your experiences. I would say the same thing to those who ONLY had scientifically, medically or clinically related experiences that their NAQ would be around 12 as well. Obviously, their experiences would be one-sided and would not score more than the average. What is wrong about complementing both (or multiple) sides of human endeavor?

 

A few more comments. I believe that not all work experiences are equal. There are those experiences that makes one think, "oh, that's really interesting". And then there are others which should be obvious to anyone that they were gap bridging jobs to pay the bills. To sugarcoat it or deny the fact will be counterproductive to the whole med school process.

 

Yes, I understand that training for the ironman triathlon is extremely difficult. However what I'm saying is that to earn higher points in the "high achievement" category, it takes more than saying that you've trained for an event. There are some ironman comps that have no prereqs to enter while others have strict entry requirements. Identifying actual achievements will go a lot farther in scoring points. I run marathons. I'm in the technical overweight category on the BMI scale. I will never qualify for the Boston Marathon. However, I train hundreds or thousands of hours for it. Is it high achievement? Definitely not. But yes, it is diversity of experience for sure. Misallocating it to high achievements, especially with it being the only listing, may have been counterproductive, imho.

 

And yes, I am only working with the titles. While I do agree that it may be short sighted, I have only to work with what the author provides me with. My opinion was for how the author could improve on the NAQ score because since it will be in Kyla's best interest to raise her score, not mine. All i'm saying is, instead of adding say another bike tour through south america or bumping up the triathlon hours to 1500, it may be productive to do something else that seem more deficient.

 

(PS: people seem to love throwing around the "you're not an adcom so you don't know sh!t" argument. There's a lot of "can do no wrong" cheer-leading squads going around on these forums. I don't know, perhaps that's what these forums were meant to be, a sounding board to release their stresses. But if you believe it to be an information centre to achieve your ultimate goal of attaining a spot in a med school, then perhaps some cold splash of truth would do some good. Oh and for those keeping count, yes, i am not part of any med school adcom. However, I have worked in the past for an Ivy league adcom and I believe the general principles are the same.)

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lol

 

Lot of good points being raised here.

 

The fact of the matter is we'll never know what her NAQ score for this year will be.

 

The 10 year rule will apply to her and even with a 12.3 NAQ or whatever it was she will get an interview and she will likely be accepted as well because she seems like the type of applicant who has persevered a lot and is likely to prepare well.

 

- Lupe :cool:

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What AnxiousBoy has said is correct. He was writing about the premise and not attacking the person.

 

A few general comments first. Not everything you have ever done can be put on an application. While it is valid to put down the hours for training... there are tons of applicants with 1000s (even 10000+) of hours in some activity. Swimming, working out, soccer, hockey, piano, basketball, martial arts, or traveling. Anybody who has ever played piano up to grade 10 will put down 10000 hours. Of course... 5 hours a day, for years. Many people go abroad for a while, maybe for exchange. And they put down 5000 hours for it.

 

Doing stuff abroad is kind of iffy, in general. I have no idea how the adcom would differentiate biking in XYZ country from someone doing Grouse Mountain. There is a specific statement on the UBC site saying that no preference is given to those who pursued activities abroad.

 

But overall, there are tons of NON-premeds with ECs in sports and outdoors, so how do you stand out? Well, first you have to be on par with the other applicants and get more healthcare-related experiences.

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kylamonkey,

 

Great resume, I am very impressed. First of all, I have not had time to read all the comments, but there are some points that I personally have experienced and may help you guys:

1. The content is important, but the way you express it is more important:

Putting down your experience is great, but they want to know what you

got out of it, hours of training shows commitment, resilience, these are

the words they are looking for.

2. Proper way of filling out the application is a key:

What do I mean: you don't need to use full sentences to take up your

entire limit, use strong/direct words in point format.

Hope I was able to help a bit.

https://sites.google.com/site/ubcmdprep/

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