UBC Medical School seeks less affluent students

[thami]

http://www.straight.com/article-338984/vancouver/ubc-med-school-seeks-lessaffluent-students

 

Good read.

[future_doc]

Good read, indeed thami. Thanks.

 

Diversity already occurs in the police force and this is a positive step when the community sees that the police is a reflection of the very community it serves. Thus, diversity in med schools is a positive step. Patients will have docs with whom they are more comfortable. And selecrting more students from rural areas wil likely positively impact upon the shortage of physicians in rural communities. Even McGill is taking a second look now and heading toward more diversity, trying to attract students who thought they never had a chance before.

 

And for the usual (traditonal) application pool, what this emans is even more competition for the fewer seats that remain available for them.

 

So, guys get in as soon as possible. Each year in the future it is going to be increasingly more difficult t o jump all the hurdles for acceeptance.

[sfuguy]

Now...the question is how will they choose applicants to ensure a socioeconomically diverse class?

[future_doc]

Well, I imagine there will be an informal or formal quota system like for aboriginals, i.e., so many spots specifically set apart for socioeconomic diversity. Years ago, only men went to med school and this has changed around considerably. As the profile of med students has changed over the decades, so it will change further and within a small time frame.

 

I believe McGill is creating 3 seats for non-trads from unusual and humble backgrounds. We will see more of this during the years aahead. The privileged and wealthy will become the disadvantaged soon enough.

[thami]

For someone like me, who has always had the inherent worry that my inability to travel or do anything remotely overseas (eg. build a library in Peru for a community, pull out teeth in Vietnam, etc) would hurt my application, it's comforting that Dr. Finkler seems to be a stand up, regular kinda guy. I know there is no place on the application to declare your SES, but hopefully his attitude and philosophy will be taken into account when the evaluators look over our applications.

 

Good luck people! I will be submitting my application just shy of a few days before the deadline because I need to fulfill my Type A personality of editing things over and over again.

[Genemo]

Nice try, I hope that could be true.

I just don't believe they can do anything about it, oh ya, other than "encouraging" those students from not-so-affluent families to apply and get rejected...

[Dongzhuo]

This attempt is basically a waste of time. How to verify people's socioeconomic level?

[Destiny Gundam]

For someone like me, who has always had the inherent worry that my inability to travel or do anything remotely overseas (eg. build a library in Peru for a community, pull out teeth in Vietnam, etc) would hurt my application, it's comforting that Dr. Finkler seems to be a stand up, regular kinda guy. I know there is no place on the application to declare your SES, but hopefully his attitude and philosophy will be taken into account when the evaluators look over our applications.

 

Good luck people! I will be submitting my application just shy of a few days before the deadline because I need to fulfill my Type A personality of editing things over and over again.

 

Same worries here when I applied. Not a factor. 1 try.

[Genemo]

For someone like me, who has always had the inherent worry that my inability to travel or do anything remotely overseas (eg. build a library in Peru for a community, pull out teeth in Vietnam, etc) would hurt my application, it's comforting that Dr. Finkler seems to be a stand up, regular kinda guy. I know there is no place on the application to declare your SES, but hopefully his attitude and philosophy will be taken into account when the evaluators look over our applications.

 

Good luck people! I will be submitting my application just shy of a few days before the deadline because I need to fulfill my Type A personality of editing things over and over again.

 

Don't worry about this. I remember seeing a report about UBC claims that they treat international volunteer experience the same with local experience.

But other than this point, there is nothing they can do to admit more students from not-so-affluent families cos the whole rule is set like that. They look at volunteer experience but who would have that much volunteer experience if he/she needs to take two part time jobs to support his/her own life?

[cococrisps]

well, i think if you can make your part-time jobs as valuable as volunteering in terms of the skills you learned and the exposure you got then i dont see why volunteer jobs are such a big deal. you can get in with 100-200 volunteer hours, which is easy to do over the course of a 4yr undergrad even with full timetable and part-time jobs. as i recall, there is no specific section where you put only volunteer jobs.

[future_doc]

I like cococrisps.

[Genemo]

well, i think if you can make your part-time jobs as valuable as volunteering in terms of the skills you learned and the exposure you got then i dont see why volunteer jobs are such a big deal. you can get in with 100-200 volunteer hours, which is easy to do over the course of a 4yr undergrad even with full timetable and part-time jobs. as i recall, there is no specific section where you put only volunteer jobs.

 

I understand this part. And also I understand that the admission office is trying to make it a fair game. But I mean, the world is not perfect. Working at MacDonald may not look good enough on the resume anyways. And there is no way that the admission office can tell if someone has a huge financial pressure or not, which can actually make big difference on people's life.

[future_doc]

I understand that the admission office is trying to make it a fair game. But I mean, the world is not perfect.....And there is no way that the admission office can tell if someone has a huge financial pressure or not, which can actually make big difference on people's life.

 

True enough today. Eventuallly, there will be a different pool for those financially disadvanatged, and this will be one way of perhaps many to create a level playing field. SAme with creating future rural docs, the history of our zip coeds will tell a tale. And generally speaking, those form rural communities return to their roots.

[sfuguy]

Working at MacDonald may not look good enough on the resume anyways.

 

I agree that it is tough to volunteer especially if one has to work full-time or multiple part-time jobs to support self and family while attending school.

 

I think what the article was getting at was that a job could be just as valuable as a volunteer position.

 

Although some may view a Mcdonalds job as not good enough or lame or without point, I would argue that someone who has worked at McDonalds for a number of years, in a fast-paced environment, providing great customer service (resolving complaints etc..), and perhaps being promoted to a supervisory role and managing staff has likely learned ALOT about leadership and working with others! I can say from experince that this person likely learned MORE at their not-so-fancy McDonalds job than many people who volunteer at their local hospital !!!

[future_doc]

Your point is well taken.

[Genemo]

True enough today. Eventuallly, there will be a different pool for those financially disadvanatged, and this will be one way of perhaps many to create a level playing field. SAme with creating future rural docs, the history of our zip coeds will tell a tale. And generally speaking, those form rural communities return to their roots.

 

I really hope so. I may be a bit extreme on this but I personally experience things that I can't change but is actually blocking my way. I just hope they could be more considerate and pay more attention on personal experience rather than pure numbers such as GPA or volunteer hours.

[Genemo]

I agree that it is tough to volunteer especially if one has to work full-time or multiple part-time jobs to support self and family while attending school.

 

I think what the article was getting at was that a job could be just as valuable as a volunteer position.

 

This is a good point. I didn't see it this way but ya, I guess it is what they mean.

 

Although some may view a Mcdonalds job as not good enough or lame or without point, I would argue that someone who has worked at McDonalds for a number of years, in a fast-paced environment, providing great customer service (resolving complaints etc..), and perhaps being promoted to a supervisory role and managing staff has likely learned ALOT about leadership and working with others! I can say from experince that this person likely learned MORE at their not-so-fancy McDonalds job than many people who volunteer at their local hospital !!!

 

I thought about that too. Working at MacDonalds for 4 years does show commitment and maybe leadership. But it is still not as good as some other experience that are also 4 years long. It is definitely not a bad experience, but I wonder if it is equally valued as other experience pre-meds may have.

 

Actually UBC is pretty good especially when compare to some universities that requires full course load or look heavily on GPA.

[sfuguy]

I thought about that too. Working at MacDonalds for 4 years does show commitment and maybe leadership. But it is still not as good as some other experience that are also 4 years long. It is definitely not a bad experience, but I wonder if it is equally valued as other experience pre-meds may have.

 

I agree, there are better jobs and then there are worse ones for sure. And it is true that sometimes a volunteer position may allow you to do something that you may not normally be qualified to do as a job.

 

The truth and the sad part about volunteering in many cases (not all!) is that because you are volunteering almost no one would give you a bad reference because you are actually giving up your time for free to do whatever it is you do. As a consequence, many people sign in, do nothing or study, and go home. I have witnessed this so often as a volunteer. It is what you make of it, and if you are doing it for hours and the title, you will get that. And if you don't plan on using that experience as one of your reference, just as a verifier that is all you need!!!

 

I feel that a job is more credible because if you are not doing it right, you will likely not receive a promotion or maybe you will just be let go! There are many employment opportunities that fullfil the non-academic qualities UBC is looking for

[Genemo]

I agree, there are better jobs and then there are worse ones for sure. And it is true that sometimes a volunteer position may allow you to do something that you may not normally be qualified to do as a job.

 

The truth and the sad part about volunteering in many cases (not all!) is that because you are volunteering almost no one would give you a bad reference because you are actually giving up your time for free to do whatever it is you do. As a consequence, many people sign in, do nothing or study, and go home. I have witnessed this so often as a volunteer. It is what you make of it, and if you are doing it for hours and the title, you will get that. And if you don't plan on using that experience as one of your reference, just as a verifier that is all you need!!!

 

I feel that a job is more credible because if you are not doing it right, you will likely not receive a promotion or maybe you will just be let go! There are many employment opportunities that fullfil the non-academic qualities UBC is looking for

 

Im glad someone has the same feeling, or I guess a lot of people may feel that too. I am volunteering at a hospital and I just don't enjoy it. I do my shift alone, and I see people studying on shift. I am not motivated to do a good job cos it makes no difference to work my ass off or just to study there--no one would know it! They only see my log in information on the computer and thats it. I am still doing it since I have been doing it for months. But I don't know how long I will still be doing it. Other than the hours, I find it really meaningless and stupid.

[future_doc]

The elitist attitude and curtain is slowly disappearing, perhaps not quite enough for the current cycle but at least in the right direction. Progress is slow, just like new drugs that could save lives may be years away from saving lives due to trials, etc,, so it is with us, we will not necessarily feel the effcts of the rethnking for a while yet.

 

Genemo, refer to the artcile, write the Dean a personal letter and deal with your application (they will loook at it twice), the squeaky wheel often gets the oil - there is no downside!

[aquadon]

Im glad someone has the same feeling, or I guess a lot of people may feel that too. I am volunteering at a hospital and I just don't enjoy it. I do my shift alone, and I see people studying on shift. I am not motivated to do a good job cos it makes no difference to work my ass off or just to study there--no one would know it! They only see my log in information on the computer and thats it. I am still doing it since I have been doing it for months. But I don't know how long I will still be doing it. Other than the hours, I find it really meaningless and stupid.

 

I couldn't agree more! I volunteered at a hospital for 30 hours and found the exact same thing. Now working in the hospital, I see volunteers standing around and either giving directions or just sitting staring into blank space. I don't understand how this prepares you for medicine other than the osmosis of medical knowledge filling the air. However, I feel like my jobs listed on the application were not considered for that many points. At 19, I was in charge of programing at a community center, while doing full time school and volunteering! However, because I was getting paid, I really feel like UBC didn't consider this as heavily as if I had volunteered. They seem to be marking the application slightly differently this year, so hopefully that involves a heavier weighting on jobs.

 

As an aside, I know 3 of the people in the photo and they are all very happy to know they are quasi celebrities now

[Genemo]

The elitist attitude and curtain is slowly disappearing, perhaps not quite enough for the current cycle but at least in the right direction. Progress is slow, just like new drugs that could save lives may be years away from saving lives due to trials, etc,, so it is with us, we will not necessarily feel the effcts of the rethnking for a while yet.

 

Genemo, refer to the artcile, write the Dean a personal letter and deal with your application (they will loook at it twice), the squeaky wheel often gets the oil - there is no downside!

 

 

I really wish it could get better. But I can't expect myself benefit from it. It will be slow.

 

For myself, I have really complicated background (if you have read my previous threads), I am still waiting for my permanent residency so I can't apply until next cycle. I have a lot to tell about my life but they don't want autobiographical essay anymore (altho I know this may not be a bad thing for me as my English sucks...) But thanks future_doc, I may think about doing it next year.

[Genemo]

I don't understand how this prepares you for medicine other than the osmosis of medical knowledge filling the air.

 

Totally!!! I've been asking myself thousands of times if this really prepares one for a career as doctor or if this shows one is willing to volunteer or just stands there and counts hours.

[moo]

I'm glad UBC has changed things. I remember when I applied, the fact that I worked for 24 hours a week during undergrad at a major psychiatric hospital as a nurses' aide (interacting with schizophrenics and other mentally ill) counted for nothing whereas my hospital volunteering (which consisted of staying behind the counter at the gift shop reading Sports Illustrated and operating the cash register) counted for all of my NAQ score which was a paltry 7/25. I'm glad other schools found my experience valuable. Interesting how times have changed in the med school admissions process.

[Dongzhuo]

Premeds are smart. They will do whatever it takes to get into medicine. They start weighting part time work more heavily, everyone will apply to work at McDonalds. They want to look at the value of your home, no problem, sell the house and move into something much cheaper. Anything that will give anyone and advantage in the application process, will be done. The "rich applicants" will easily transform into the "poor applicants" if it helps their application.