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Opening the flood gates: Foreign dentists can challenge the boards in 2011


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which of my statements were not making sense? you saif half of the time I don't make any sense but you're not giving ANY examples.

 

even for this thread, it's all true that more foreign dentists will take our jobs and our market will get even more saturated. Which part do you not agree with? More foreign dentists allowed to come? Dental field is saturated in almost all cities? It will get more saturated in the future? Just tell me why you think I'm not making any sense!

 

you can't even deny my pointsbut just keep saying I'm a troll.

 

I understand you would feel really bad hearing all these news as a predents, but we must tell the right story to the kids who probably don't know anything about it.

 

Reddishh, dentistry is a bad choice. Move on.

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Hi there,

 

Is it reasonable to predict that dentists in rural areas/communities will be immune to intense competition for the foreseeable future?

 

D

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Hi there,

 

Is it reasonable to think that dentists in rural areas/communities will be immune to intense competition for the foreseeable future?

 

D

 

It only takes one or two additional dentists in a small town to over-saturate. Every newly licensed dentist is being advised to go rural. Rural Canada doesn't really need THAT many new dentists!

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Hi there,

 

If you don't mind me asking, are you currently working in a urban setting? If so, are you content with the remuneration?

 

D

 

Yes, an urban office. I'm doing ok because I am working with a relative and I have a non-standard contract. That said I am not busy at all, and in 'standard' circumstances I would be making very very little. I just get very angry to know that the CDA and NDEB are aware of these demographic issues and are still rushing to license more more more people.

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Yes, an urban office. I'm doing ok because I am working with a relative and I have a non-standard contract. That said I am not busy at all, and in 'standard' circumstances I would be making very very little. I just get very angry to know that the CDA and NDEB are aware of these demographic issues and are still rushing to license more more more people.

 

Hi there,

 

I am not a dental student nor a dentist myself but it seems like having the possibility of being granted a license after passing a set of qualifying exams really defeats the purpose of the internationally trained dentists qualifying programs at various dental schools (UT, Dal etc). I keep hearing that dentistry's golden days are long gone in the past and only tough roads lay ahead. Many of my friends are already in or currently pursuing dentistry so I really hope that CDA protects the dental profession and rectifies this issue in the near future.

 

D

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At some point, they will start decreasing the number of dental graduates, just not sure why they haven't stepped in yet. This information is coming from my orthodontist who graduated from UofT's DDS in the early 1970's. She told me during that time, they were graduating way too many dentists, and subsequently halved the number of graduates (if someone can verify this or prove me wrong, please do. i.e. count the number of graduates in the photos hanging in the dental building). Seems like the people higher up have trouble keeping up with the trends, creating a cycle which includes oversupply. Fun times ahead...

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Instead of complaining why don't we do something?

Everyone of us can do something and together we can make change before it's too late.

 

Let's write letters or emails to:

1. the president of the CDA

2. the director of the NDEB

3. the registrar/president of your provincial regulatory authority and association.

4. your MP

5. the minister of Citizenship and Immigration

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Instead of complaining why don't we do something?

Everyone of us can do something and together we can make change before it's too late.

 

Let's write letters or emails to:

1. the president of the CDA

2. the director of the NDEB

3. the registrar/president of your provincial regulatory authority and association.

4. your MP

5. the minister of Citizenship and Immigration

 

The government is pretty deaf the dentists. The ODA has been lobbying the government over the new rules on treating your spouse (5 year license suspension and a sexual assault charge for doing a filling on your husband or wife - even if they consent). If the government won't fix a stupid rule like that, they certainly won't look at this. Still - may as well try.

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At some point, they will start decreasing the number of dental graduates, just not sure why they haven't stepped in yet. This information is coming from my orthodontist who graduated from UofT's DDS in the early 1970's. She told me during that time, they were graduating way too many dentists, and subsequently halved the number of graduates (if someone can verify this or prove me wrong, please do. i.e. count the number of graduates in the photos hanging in the dental building). Seems like the people higher up have trouble keeping up with the trends, creating a cycle which includes oversupply. Fun times ahead...

 

When my downtown dentist was in school, they had around 120 students per class. Now it's 65. But they still add 30-ish international dentists in the spring semester of second year.

 

In my opinion the CDA and NDEB are shooting dentists in the foot and our own regulatory bodies are compromising the integrity of the profession.

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One thing that almost everyone forgets about is the amount of dentists Quebec dental schools pump out every year. This year at the IDSC, I believe someone told me Montreal alone (not including McGill) has 90 students per year. I know Laval has 48 students and Mcgill has 26 in the regular program (not sure how Dent-P at Mcgill works really, so didn't even include them). That puts Quebec's number to 164 just for regular dental programs. Now, we know Ontario graduates 126 students (excluding foreign trained programs since I didn't include Quebec ITD ones either). We also know Quebec's population is about 9 Million (wikipedia), while Ontario's is 12 million (wikipedia). You now see who is really pumping out more dentists...

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Also, I highly doubt universities would have any desire to decrease the number of students. These days universities have been functioning on pure financial motivations. And this is not just related to dentistry. In fact, every single university is pumping more and more students in the market. It's no surprise that majority of students are having a rough time finding jobs appropriate to education.

In terms of dentistry, if they limit the number of students, they will likely have to lay Professors off anyway. So, there is not a chance that they would. Tell you what though, ITD programs seem kinda pointless now that you can just do the exams. I mean who would go pay 120K and study for 2 years, while they can just do two exams, and then be on par with the Canadian students.

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Also, I highly doubt universities would have any desire to decrease the number of students. These days universities have been functioning on pure financial motivations. And this is not just related to dentistry. In fact, every single university is pumping more and more students in the market. It's no surprise that majority of students are having a rough time finding jobs appropriate to education.

In terms of dentistry, if they limit the number of students, they will likely have to lay Professors off anyway. So, there is not a chance that they would. Tell you what though, ITD programs seem kinda pointless now that you can just do the exams. I mean who would go pay 120K and study for 2 years, while they can just do two exams, and then be on par with the Canadian students.

 

Keep the ITD programmes. Lose the stupid equivalency process.

 

What really irks me is that U of T itself provides a prep course for 40 people each year who want to take the equivalency exam. Just to squeeze out an extra couple hundred thousand in revenue.

 

The school complains of being in debt, but funnels all money into research, refuses to accept corporate sponsorship, and raises tuition each year. It's a big money-grubbing gravy train for those at the top.

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Uncooling no offence, but you aren't even in Dental school yet you seem to have a pessimistic approach to dentistry and it's future.

If you are going to the dental interviews, and if you keep this pessimistic approach they will not be looking favourably at your application.

I see your point that there is a real chance dentists will have some struggles in future. But let's be honest, all professions are heading that way. Like I said before, growth in population cannot simply keep up with the growth in technology and education. And there is no solution to that, unless if you like a stagnant world, which would be pretty boring to be honest.

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If you are going to the dental interviews, and if you keep this pessimistic approach they will not be looking favourably at your application.

 

Let's not say things we might regret.

 

He has a point, and regardless, I don't think wishing him ill on the interview is much help to anyone. Not exactly a good attitude to have, especially toward someone else, just because their opinion differs from yours.

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I think there is room for everyone in dentistry...at the moment.

 

I do believe that someone should take initiative and create an advocacy group against the equivalency process. If there are enough of us rallying against this something will eventually be done.

 

I see a huge brain drain if this continues, which is actually very unethical. Don't other countries need dentists too? :)

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I wonder if leaders in your organizations are profiting from this in some way? To me it makes no sense to take people whose education is of variable quality, some terrible, and call them equivalent based on an examination. Has someone followed the money on this?

 

yeah, i doubt it has been explored by anyone in that detail...there is a separate accrediting body that accredits foreign dental schools whose students become automatically eligible to practice with just boards similar to canadian students...(the Commision for dentl accreditation of Canada)...last 2 yrs, they have gone all ape with this accreditation expanding eligibility to a huge number of foreign common wealth country based schools. coincidentally (or maybe not, who knows) this accreditation was accompanied with a change made by the National Dental Examination Board in the way foreign dentists can practice in Canada with the removal of the requirement to participate in the qualifying 2yr program. now it would probably be too naive to think that the 2 bodies are operating with their own independent mandates with no cross-communication since their actions have an impact on the dental workforce collectively...my best guess is that someone in the political arena is pulling the strings on this and these licensing bodies have bowed down to pressure...the worse case scenario however would be that common board members in both the organizations have their own agenda( for the personal gains)...

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so my hunch was right, the foreign dentists change was forced down on us from the political arena and gladly accepted in the form of money by the canadian dental regulatory authorities federation (an organization that i did not even know existed that apparently exists for dentists)..Read this news release for better understanding on where these changes are coming from:

 

September 15, 2010

Government of Canada helping internationally trained dentists enter the labour market

 

The Government of Canada is funding a project that will help internationally trained dentists put their knowledge and skills to work sooner. The Canadian Dental Regulatory Authorities Federation (CDRAF) will receive over $790,000 in Foreign Credential Recognition Program funding for its Assessment of Internationally Trained General Dentists from Non-Accredited Dental Programs project.

 

"The CDRAF is pleased to receive funding from the Foreign Credential Recognition Program to develop and implement a national assessment program for internationally trained general dentists," said Dr. Cam Witmer, President of the CDRAF. "This important initiative will establish an impartial, objective and fair process, based on nationally agreed upon standards and programs. Canada's dental regulatory authorities are committed to helping reduce barriers by registering qualified and competent internationally trained dentists in our country."

 

The project will establish a national process for the assessment of internationally trained dentists. Prior to this initiative, the majority of foreign-trained dentists, who come from non-accredited dental schools, would have been required to undertake additional training and education.

 

This new process will evaluate whether these individuals already have the same knowledge, skills and competencies as a graduate from an accredited Canadian dental program. Successful completion of this assessment process will enable them to take the national examination through the National Dental Examining Board of Canada. Candidates who pass the exam can then register to practise as a dentist anywhere in Canada.

 

"Our government is helping internationally educated health professionals enter the labour market to improve the quality of life of all Canadians," said the Honourable Diane Finley, Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development, who made the announcement on September 15. "Through Canada's Economic Action Plan, we are working with partners to develop a common approach to foreign credential recognition. This project contributes to a fair, efficient and timely system that will help internationally trained dentists find work in communities across Canada."

http://www.cdraf.org/english/news_events.html

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so they receive this huge some of money and all they do with it is remove the option of the 2yr program in an attempt to make it "national"...that does not even sound like money used to create a program lol

 

this is bad news..the fact that this is a top down approach as opposed to an approach mandated from within the profession means that no one had the dental workforce numbers in mind and did not do research on actual dentist densities prior to mandating this change...the govt wants overall foreign labour improvements which is another way of saying that they dont care what existing numbers were specifically for the dental profession...

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