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Podiatry or Chiropody?


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Hey guys! Totally off topic from anything on this forum, but here I go.

I was having a conversation with my uncle in the US who is a podiatrist. And I got kind of interested in what he does (foot surgery). So i decided to investigate podiatry in Canada. From what I read, I think there is no such thing as podiatry in Canada, but rather its chiropody?

 

Im kind of confused, because my uncle said he did four years of UG, then went to a four year Podiatric medicine school, then did residency.

 

Are US Podiatrists like doctors? Because in Canada, if im not mistaken you can be a chiropodist almost right out of highschool by going to College. Is the US version of "chiropody" something totally different.

 

I would love to know, It kinda interests me that Canada has chiropody(which doesnt require much schooling) and US has a long and intensive podiatry medicine.

 

Anyways, reply if you know anything :)

 

Thanks

Happy Holidays !

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Hey guys! Totally off topic from anything on this forum, but here I go.

I was having a conversation with my uncle in the US who is a podiatrist. And I got kind of interested in what he does (foot surgery). So i decided to investigate podiatry in Canada. From what I read, I think there is no such thing as podiatry in Canada, but rather its chiropody?

 

Im kind of confused, because my uncle said he did four years of UG, then went to a four year Podiatric medicine school, then did residency.

 

Are US Podiatrists like doctors? Because in Canada, if im not mistaken you can be a chiropodist almost right out of highschool by going to College. Is the US version of "chiropody" something totally different.

 

I would love to know, It kinda interests me that Canada has chiropody(which doesnt require much schooling) and US has a long and intensive podiatry medicine.

 

Anyways, reply if you know anything :)

 

Thanks

Happy Holidays !

 

Podiatry and Chiropractic are not the same thing. Chiropractic is an alternative form of medicine and is not evidence-based. Here in Quebec, we have the Universite du Quebec a Trois-Rivieres which offers both programs. UQTR is the only Canadian school which offers Podiatry.

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You can be a podiatrist in Canada, there just aren't very many of them. But Canadian podiatrists do exist. A podiatrist goes to university and gets a bachelor's degree, then gets a Doctor of Podiatric Medicine degree, just like going to medical or dental school. But you can enter a chiropody program straight out of high school and you don't need a bachelor's degree first. I think chiropodists mainly do stuff like fit people for foot orthotics.

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I see a podiatrist as I have some foot issues from long term long distance running, I'd say the salaries are pretty comparable to dentistry, my orthotics cost like 400 bucks...

 

Sorry if the answer to my next Q is obvious but, Where do podiatrists normally work in Canada? In Hospitals like MDs or do they just open their own clinics like a FM would do?

 

Also, how's the salary for CDN Podiatrists? I looked at some sites, and it seems to be high in the US, wonder how its like in Canada....

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To be honest, I'm not sure how they would compare to Orthos since I don't have much surgical interest; as well, my problem wasn't severe enough to require surgery. I can tell you that he does have his own clinic, as well, if you wanted to get the training, you'd likely have to go to the states as there are few podiatry schools here (I think just one in Quebec he said), meaning school would be quite expensive. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, hopefully that helps out a bit :).

 

hey muse. Does your podiatrist work at a hospital or does he have a clinic? And how would ortho surgeons compare with podiatrists. Would they do the same foot related surgeries?
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  • 2 weeks later...
hey muse. Does your podiatrist work at a hospital or does he have a clinic? And how would ortho surgeons compare with podiatrists. Would they do the same foot related surgeries?

 

Podiatrist can work in the Hospital only in BC and Saskatchewan (requires minimum of one year of residency). Everywhere else, they can only work in Clinics

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You can be a podiatrist in Canada, there just aren't very many of them. But Canadian podiatrists do exist. A podiatrist goes to university and gets a bachelor's degree, then gets a Doctor of Podiatric Medicine degree, just like going to medical or dental school. But you can enter a chiropody program straight out of high school and you don't need a bachelor's degree first. I think chiropodists mainly do stuff like fit people for foot orthotics.

 

The term chiropodist is used only in Ontario. There is only one chiropody school in Canada, and you do need a bachelor's degree to apply to chiropody school at Michener.

Ontario chiropodists can find work in some hospitals, community health centres and private clinics. They can do soft tissue surgeries, inject substances (corticoseteroid,local anesthetic etc..) and prescribe medications (including oral NSAIDs, antibitics etc.)

 

Chiropody graduate can work in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, NFL, Nova Scotia, PEI, and New Brunswick as podiatrist (just different title, probably very similar scope of practice).

 

In short, each province has it own regulation/scope of practice.

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Unfortunately, the professional title "Podiatrist" does not mean the same thing from province to province across Canada. The professional title "Podiatrist" originated in the USA and served to identify those foot specialists trained only within the USA that attained the post graduate doctoral degree, Doctor of Podiatric Medicine (DPM). The prerequisite to entry was a science baccalaureate degree and MCAT exam. The schooling was provided through, at one time, autonomous Colleges of Podiatric Medicine but more recently the podiatry programs at several of these College transferred over to be incorporated within bona fide universities with medical faculties such as Temple in Philadelphia, Finch in Chicago and others. Most all US states require post graduate hospital residency training for licensure, typically two years, but the push is on to very soon increase that to a three year minimum requirement. Furthermore, most state hospitals require this level of residency training for privileges within the hospital.

All this background information is very easily accessed by internet searching any one of many US podiatry websites including that of the American Podiatric Medical Association, the Council on Podiatric Medical Education (they independently accredit the various podiatry programs across the US), or any of the US schools of Podiatric Medicine.

 

So back to the mish mash that is Canada. In Canada, health care of course falls under provincial jurisdiction. That means that within each province, where the profession is regulated, that province can define "podiatrist" as they choose. Accordingly, in B.C., Alberta, Ontario and Quebec these provinces have defined a Podiatrist as one who holds the academic degree "Doctor of Podiatric Medicine (DPM)" obtained from one of the US podiatry programs OR from the relatively new (5 years?) program at the University of Trois Rivieres in Quebec. In B.C. and Alberta, podiatrists there enjoy an expansive scope of practise that includes the ordering of the wide gammit of diagnostic tests, broad drug prescribing privileges and a complete scope for surgery of the foot and ankle, hospital privileges. This scope in these two provinces is akin to what is practised in the USA. Unquestionably podiatrists in these provincial jurisdictions practice with the broadest scopes available in Canada.

(Further research possible through BC or Alberta Podiatry Association websites and the University of Trois Rivieres website.).

 

In Ontario, because the provincial government at the time believed pursuing salaried, hospital employed chiropodists working under the oversight of medical doctors in hospital clinics to be the way of the future, they promoted the profession of chiropody. Quite deliberately they did so in 1993 by placing a restriction on any Podiatrists (DPMs) seeking to come to ON to practise thereafter by preventing them from calling themselves podiatrists and by greatly limiting their scope of practise. That is, these individuals would be registered as chiropodists and they would also have to practise under the more restricted scope for chiropodists.

Chiropody in Ontario began in 1981 as a two year post high school diploma program at a community College in Toronto called George Brown College with some courses as well through Toronto Institute of Medical Technology (which some years later changed its name to The Michener Institute) and a clinic at Toronto General Hospital. The clinical component was taught by imported UK chiropodists. Some years later in and around 1993 the chiropody program divorced itself from George Brown College and soon thereafter the TGH teaching clinic was also closed. I believe that sometime at the turn of 2000 the chiropody program became 3 years in length, post high school, but within the last 3 years the Michener chiropody program has moved to require a baccalureate degree prerequisite but not specifically in the sciences.

(These facts can be further explored at the following resources: The Michener Institute website; the Ontario Podiatric Medical Association website; the College of Chiropodists of Ontario (regulate podiatrists and chiropodists) website and the Ontario Society of Chiropodists website.)

 

Jump now across the ocean to the UK. Sometime in the late 1980's interest in adopting the USA derived term for foot practitioner arose within the ranks of the chiropody profession. Sometime in the 1990's the title of the UK national association changed to include both of the terms - chiropodists and podiatrists. Over the years the didactic training also evolved and accordingly so did the diploma titles. For a while in the 1990s the national association conferred upon state registered chiropodist graduates the non-academic designation "[b]Diploma of Podiatric Medicine[/b]" abbreviated as D. Pod. M. . In time, the academic program names were changed to "Podiatry" and the 3 year baccalaureate conferred from the UK universities was "Bachelor of Science - Podiatric Medicine" (BSc. Pod. Med.). Nonetheless, an item by item comparison on issues such as scope of practise, drug prescribing privileges, the ability to order diagnostic testing (including just plain radiographs), surgical privileges, hospital privileges and a host of other such related items clearly illustrates the large discrepancy in the level of practise of UK trained Podiatrists in their "home" (the country in which they were educated) jurisdiction compared to that of USA trained Podiatrists in their home jurisdiction. That fact is indisputable.

 

In Saskatchewan and Manitoba the migration there to meet the demand for footcare was filled in the early days entirely by Brit trained chiropodists. In more recent years, several Ontario trained chiropodists have also migrated there to practise. To this day, no US trained DPMs practise in either of those provinces likely because of the limited scope in those provinces that was tailored around the UK chiropody footcare model.

Very curiously, and maybe some in the medical commumity out there can answer for me how in the public interest this is permitted, all the footcare practitioners in that province that are licensed to practice whether they originated from the more recent UK baccalaureate podiatry program or even as far back as the post high school Michener chiropody program, have the provincially sanctioned right to call themselves Doctor?!? (I believe that the same holds true for New Brunswick and Nova Scotia although I am not exactly sure if "podiatry" is a regulated profession in those provinces; namely, anyone with any qualifications can hold themselves out to be called a "Podiatrist" and "Doctor" there.) I know of no other jurisdictions in the civilized world where this kind of liberty is permitted. "Doctor" for individuals that hold academic diplomas that do not say doctor anywhere on the piece of paper. Someone explain that to me please.

 

There you have it. A brief novel on the hodge podge that is "podiatrist" across Canada. I encourage all interested parties to visit the websites listed and any others to become further enlightened on the subject.

 

The take home message, unfortunately, is that across Canada, unlike for any other health care profession in Canada, you cannot rely on the professional title alone to define your expectation of the training and/or the qualifications of the "podiatrist" you may be seeking treatment from. As a start one could investigate the academic degree, (and look very carefully at the letters and their arrangement too so as not to be mislead). For in Canada, from B.C. to Manitoba to Nova Scotia - a Podiatrist, is perhaps not a Podiatrist, is perhaps not a Podiatrist. Let the consumer beware.

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Very curiously, and maybe some in the medical commumity out there can answer for me how in the public interest this is permitted, all the footcare practitioners in that province that are licensed to practice whether they originated from the more recent UK baccalaureate podiatry program or even as far back as the post high school Michener chiropody program, have the provincially sanctioned right to call themselves Doctor?!? (I believe that the same holds true for New Brunswick and Nova Scotia although I am not exactly sure if "podiatry" is a regulated profession in those provinces; namely, anyone with any qualifications can hold themselves out to be called a "Podiatrist" and "Doctor" there.) I know of no other jurisdictions in the civilized world where this kind of liberty is permitted. "Doctor" for individuals that hold academic diplomas that do not say doctor anywhere on the piece of paper. Someone explain that to me please.

.

 

 

Sorry, but you are incorrect. Chiropodists and Podiatrists are NOT allowed to call themselves Doctor or represent themselves as one (unless, of course, the "podiatrist" is an actual MD, but not for the B.Sc. UK degree you were talking about).

More info on this from the College of Chiropodists of Ontario: http://www.cocoo.on.ca/doctor.html

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Ontario's Podiatrist who holds a DPM (Doctor of Podiatric Medecine) can call themselves Doctor. They can do minor surgery.

The College of Chiropodists of Ontario has two categories of members (chiropodist and podiatrist).

 

1. OHIP coverage: Podiatrists may bill OHIP for their services. Chiropodists may not.

2. Services: Podiatrists may "communicate a diagnosis" to their patients and perform surgical procedures on the bones of the forefoot. Chiropodists may do neither.

3. X-rays: Podiatrists may own and operate x-rays. Chiropodists may not.

Since July, 1993 no new podiatrists have been registered to practise in Ontario in order to encourage the development of the chiropody profession.

 

The Doctor of Podiatric Medecine is given at :

1. Ohio College of Podiatric Medecine at Cleveland.

2. Université du Québec a Trois-Riviere at Trois-Riviere, Quebec. (the only program in Canada and it's given in french).

 

The Chiropody is given at :

1. Graduate Advanced Diploma of Health Sciences (Chiropody) at Michener Institute in Toronto.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello,

 

At the risk of hijacking the thread, I felt compelled to address an earlier statement about chiropractic being non-evidenced based. Chiropractic has already been established to be an effective treatment for neck pain, acute low back pain, and certain types of headaches. Research is also ongoing to determine its efficacy in treating other conditions as well. It is definitely an evidenced-based profession and like other health professions, it continues to improve on itself to provide the best care for the patients it serves.

 

As for the topic at hand, it would seem that OntarioDPM has adequately outlined the complexities around the practices of podiatry and chiropody. I have nothing further to add on that subject matter.

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Hey guys! Totally off topic from anything on this forum, but here I go.

I was having a conversation with my uncle in the US who is a podiatrist. And I got kind of interested in what he does (foot surgery). So i decided to investigate podiatry in Canada. From what I read, I think there is no such thing as podiatry in Canada, but rather its chiropody?

 

Im kind of confused, because my uncle said he did four years of UG, then went to a four year Podiatric medicine school, then did residency.

 

Are US Podiatrists like doctors? Because in Canada, if im not mistaken you can be a chiropodist almost right out of highschool by going to College. Is the US version of "chiropody" something totally different.

 

I would love to know, It kinda interests me that Canada has chiropody(which doesnt require much schooling) and US has a long and intensive podiatry medicine.

 

Anyways, reply if you know anything :)

 

Thanks

Happy Holidays !

 

The term chiropodist is commonly known by most people to mean a person that works on the feet.

 

The word Chiropodist' comes from CHIRO- from the Greek for hand, and PODOS- from the Greek for foot.

 

The word Podiatrist' comes from POD from the Greek for foot.

It's the same thing...

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Podiatric medicine in the United States is an area of high importance in terms of long-term health. It’s also an area of innovation within the healthcare marketplace in the United States, and many foot care treatments for orthotics and other areas are being devised this year. On-site podiatry services are another area of advancement.

Many patients in hospitals and nursing facilities across the country rely upon on-site podiatry services to ensure their foot health needs are met by specialists. Podiatrists now visit these facilities to provide treatment to the patient directly at their bedside, minimizing the need for the patient to leave the facility to ensure optimal foot health.

It’s an area of growing importance across the U.S. medical field. To learn more about on-site podiatry services and the value provided, speak to the team at Lumina HealthCare today. You can contact them directly through their website.

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  • 9 months later...

Hey guys,

I'm an actual podiatric medicine student at UQTR in Quebec!

Podiatrists trained in Quebec (only school in Canada who offers a degree that makes you a Doctor in Podiatric Medicine (DPM)) only work in private practice for now. But, there are some on going actions to let us work in hospitals, mainly to treat diabetic wounds (ulcers mostly) and maybe eventually (hopefully) do some orthopedic surgeries to help MDs by taking some of their patients.

Yes they can be called Dr., as long as it's followed by Podiatrist (Ex : Dr. John Doe, podiatrist)

As for the program, it's a 4 year degree with 2 ''pre-clinic'' year. Third year is mixed with 50% of clinical rotations (from 8 am to 1pm approximately) and then classes in the afternoon/evening. 4 year is 100% clinical with private practice rotations, surgery, hospitals, humanitary missions and even an exchange program with NYCPM (NY college of podiatric medicine).

If you decide to practice in QC, you will be pretty limited by the actions you will be able to take or the drugs you'll be able to prescribe, but it is still a pretty awesome profession!

If you want to be and feet and ankle surgeon, you'll have to do the residency in the US, since it's not yet available in Canada.

Hope it helps a little! 

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