Hockeystar Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Could someone tell me why a Bachelor's degree is required for Med and dentistry school? All the prereq. courses can be obtained in 1-2 years, the MCAT and DAT cover high school to 1st year university material and in other countries where medicine is just as respectable (like UK, Australia, Germany) you can go straight out of high-school. Why do I have to waste 2-3 years taking stupid courses like "Nucleic acids structure and function", "Applications of Spectroscopy in Chemistry" if I want to become a doctor or dentist. An engineer can get a degree in 4 years yet a doctor can only get a degree in 8 years. No wonder there's a huge doctor shortage in Ontario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatechem Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Could someone tell me why a Bachelor's degree is required for Med and dentistry school? All the prereq. courses can be obtained in 1-2 years, the MCAT and DAT cover high school to 1st year university material and in other countries where medicine is just as respectable (like UK, Australia, Germany) you can go straight out of high-school. Why do I have to waste 2-3 years taking stupid courses like "Nucleic acids structure and function", "Applications of Spectroscopy in Chemistry" if I want to become a doctor or dentist. An engineer can get a degree in 4 years yet a doctor can only get a degree in 8 years. No wonder there's a huge doctor shortage in Ontario. don't jinx anything - it could be a lot more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OIC Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Has nothing to do with the shortage, admission rates are 7-10% at each school when you look at them individually in ontario. We have never had an issue of lack of interest, only lack of seats. Those schools where you can go in right after highschool are generally 6yr programs if I remember correctly. So, in the end, its just a couple years more here, and if you count that you can get into many of the schools with three years of undergrad...then its only ONE year more. Not a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmer08 Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Has nothing to do with the shortage, admission rates are 7-10% at each school when you look at them individually in ontario. We have never had an issue of lack of interest, only lack of seats. Those schools where you can go in right after highschool are generally 6yr programs if I remember correctly. So, in the end, its just a couple years more here, and if you count that you can get into many of the schools with three years of undergrad...then its only ONE year more. Not a big deal. And the requirement for the schools is a B.Sc. which is 3 years. Its just the competition has made it harder to get in with a 3 year degree but it is still possible. Also don't forget those countries where you can get into medschool right after highschool have standardized exams that everyone has to write to graduate high school so everyone who gets A's can be assumed to know the basics. That isn't the case in Canada where some high schools don't even teach the basics in grade 12... some teachers skip an entire section (for example evolution in biology). I know people who had 90's in highschool but ended up getting C's in first year university... imagine if these people got into medschool lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarathonRunner Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 The entire education system in Germany, for example, is very different than in Canada. Early on, children are "streamed" into different schools, so which "high school" you go to depends on whether or not you are academically inclined. Students who are in grade 5 basically have to write a standardized exam that determines what schooling system they end up in. Students, if they are very strong, can transfer over from a lower stream to a higher one, but they really do have to be at the top of their class and show that they have the ability to succeed in a more "strenuous" academic environment. High schools students in Germany, graduating from a "Gymnasium" have to write an "abitur" exam - a standard exam - to be able to attend university. The education in this stream of high school is generally considered to be more rigorous that most standard Canadian high schools. It is basically geared towards academically-inclined students who plan to attend university. Students who do not plan on entering university will go to one of the other high schools, with a less academically-inclined curriculum. Then, medical school in Germany is 6 years, as opposed to 4 in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corie Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Why do I have to waste 2-3 years taking stupid courses like "Nucleic acids structure and function", "Applications of Spectroscopy in Chemistry" if I want to become a doctor or dentist. It's so you get a chance to grow up, mature and change some of your attitudes. And no, not a wasted few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmer08 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 It's so you get a chance to grow up, mature and change some of your attitudes. And no, not a wasted few years. He was comparing medicine to engineering. And you need to be mature to become an engineer too... 3 years B.Sc. in physics and then school of engineering maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corie Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 I think a big difference is you become partially responsible for other people's lives starting at second year (clinical). You can't have "I don't care" attitudes about things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatonekid Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Why do I have to waste 2-3 years taking stupid courses like "Nucleic acids structure and function", "Applications of Spectroscopy in Chemistry" You don't have to take those types of courses. Take stuff that you're interested in. It's only a "waste" of time if you make it to be that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 He was comparing medicine to engineering. And you need to be mature to become an engineer too... 3 years B.Sc. in physics and then school of engineering maybe? Huh? Not sure of any program in the country which is not direct entry from Grade 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmer08 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Huh? Not sure of any program in the country which is not direct entry from Grade 12. Nah I meant if maturity was the reason, then engineering programs would also require a B.Sc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarathonRunner Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 You don't have to take those types of courses. Take stuff that you're interested in. It's only a "waste" of time if you make it to be that way. +1 Take courses that interest you and that you think might be useful. Look outside of the "standard" science classes. Does your university have a nutrition department? Some of those courses might be very useful to a future doctor. Same with the kinesiology or physical education department (plenty of them have courses on health and wellness, health promotion, etc.) Take a look at the history or classics department and learn something about the history of medicine. What about studying another language? Or improving your ability in a second or third language if you already speak several. Take some courses on other cultures - Canada is so multicultural you are bound to have patients whose culture is different from your own. I greatly enjoyed my undergraduate studies, but I made sure to take plenty of courses that were of interest to me, even if they were "atypical" electives and not considered "bird courses." But they interested me, and so I was able to do well in them, even if they didn't have a reputation for being easy. If your program/major doesn't allow you to take courses that interest you, then switch! There is no standard "pre med" program, and the pre-reqs that many universities have can easily be taken as part of almost any undergraduate program, except for some very structured programs or majors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennethToronto Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Could someone tell me why a Bachelor's degree is required for Med and dentistry school? All the prereq. courses can be obtained in 1-2 years, the MCAT and DAT cover high school to 1st year university material and in other countries where medicine is just as respectable (like UK, Australia, Germany) you can go straight out of high-school. Why do I have to waste 2-3 years taking stupid courses like "Nucleic acids structure and function", "Applications of Spectroscopy in Chemistry" if I want to become a doctor or dentist. An engineer can get a degree in 4 years yet a doctor can only get a degree in 8 years. No wonder there's a huge doctor shortage in Ontario. The reason there's a bachelor's degree requirement is so that we don't have immature kids like you on the wards who think education is a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheech10 Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 The reason there's a bachelor's degree requirement is so that we don't have immature kids like you on the wards who think education is a waste of time. Sorry, I agree with Hockeystar. I certainly don't feel I benefitted much from the extra years of undergrad before med school, and most European countries have direct entry to med school from high school (or equivalent), with trainees that are every bit as good as we are. I think the "maturity" aspect is overstated. Most med students develop maturity by being in clinical situations, not by sitting in lecture halls (or even doing extra-curriculars). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mm88 Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 I think having to do an undergrad before med effectively weeds out a whole bunch of people who dreamt of med as a child but discovered along the way that either a. they weren't cut out for med or b. really aren't interested in med. This eliminates a lot of waste in the system from people dropping out/failing out/trying to switch 2 years into one of those direct entry 6 year things they have in the UK. I had a buddy who thought he wanted to be a vet all throughout HS. He went to Guelph and took a bunch of courses in things like animal physiology and such and realized that being a vet is the last thing he wanted to do. He's happily studying Math now; and will probably go on to do a PhD in it. (Vets aren't MDs...you might argue, but you can't argue against the moral of the story ) Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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