DAT Carving

[Lunasly]

Thanks for the tips, everyone. Does anyone know of a good study guide to follow for studying for the DAT? I am planning to dedicate my next summer to studying for the DAT and I will be studying for the 4 months of summer plus a little bit of review for September and October and then I will write in November.

[Visceral]

Haha just to be clear I wasn't saying carving was essential to dentistry, but it is actually a decent measure of dexterity and spatial sense in my opinion and that of the writers of the dat as well as many schools across north america. it is not like asking you to knit. if it was, knitting would be a component of the exam. what I'm saying is that if you need 40 tries to complete a pretty simple test of a skill that is basic to the profession it says something. obvs this'll make people mad

 

The utility of Canadian DAT Perceptual Ability and Carving Dexterity scores as predictors of psychomotor performance in first-year operative dentistry.

Oudshoorn WC.

Source

 

Division of Operative Dentistry and Endodontics, School of Dentistry, Faculty of Medicine and Dentistry, University of Western Ontario, London.

Abstract

 

This study sought to determine if Canadian Dental Aptitude Test Perceptual Ability (PA) and Carving Dexterity (CD) scores have any practical utility as predictors of psychomotor performance. Simple linear regression and multiple regression analyses were performed and prediction intervals plotted. Efforts were made to expand the range of the predictor and dependent variables and to improve the accuracy and consistency and prevent contamination of the dependent variables. Results for both PA and CD varied markedly across years. Weak, but statistically extremely significant, correlations were observed for both PA and CD with specific technique grades and the year-overall pooled data. PA correlations loaded on exams at the start, and CD correlations loaded on exams at the end of the year. Manual average scores exhibited the strongest correlation with year-overall technique grades, but could explain no more than 7.2 percent of observed variance. Prediction intervals for year-end grades spanned at least 38 percentage grade points for both PA and CD. Within the context of the present study, PA and CD scores demonstrated no practical utility as predictors of psychomotor performance.

 

 

My point is learning to knit is as arbitrary as learning to carve a cylinder of soap. Do not overstate the significance of carving other than another mark you need do well on relative to your peers to get into a DDS/DMD program.

 

And just because something is done, i.e using carving as some predictor of dental school success, doesn't mean it should be. Look at things critically. This will help immensely in dentistry as the profession is moving more and more towards evidence-based practice.

[emac2014]

The utility of Canadian DAT Perceptual Ability and Carving Dexterity scores as predictors of psychomotor performance in first-year operative dentistry.

Oudshoorn WC.

Source

 

Division of Operative Dentistry and Endodontics, School of Dentistry, Faculty of Medicine and Dentistry, University of Western Ontario, London.

Abstract

 

This study sought to determine if Canadian Dental Aptitude Test Perceptual Ability (PA) and Carving Dexterity (CD) scores have any practical utility as predictors of psychomotor performance. Simple linear regression and multiple regression analyses were performed and prediction intervals plotted. Efforts were made to expand the range of the predictor and dependent variables and to improve the accuracy and consistency and prevent contamination of the dependent variables. Results for both PA and CD varied markedly across years. Weak, but statistically extremely significant, correlations were observed for both PA and CD with specific technique grades and the year-overall pooled data. PA correlations loaded on exams at the start, and CD correlations loaded on exams at the end of the year. Manual average scores exhibited the strongest correlation with year-overall technique grades, but could explain no more than 7.2 percent of observed variance. Prediction intervals for year-end grades spanned at least 38 percentage grade points for both PA and CD. Within the context of the present study, PA and CD scores demonstrated no practical utility as predictors of psychomotor performance.

 

 

My point is learning to knit is as arbitrary as learning to carve a cylinder of soap. Do not overstate the significance of carving other than another mark you need do well on relative to your peers to get into a DDS/DMD program.

 

And just because something is done, i.e using carving as some predictor of dental school success, doesn't mean it should be. Look at things critically. This will help immensely in dentistry as the profession is moving more and more towards evidence-based practice.

 

lol study or not use your brain. it is a logical measure of a number of important skills. it isn't the only possible one, but it isn't arbitrary and it isn't knitting...

[Visceral]

lol study or not use your brain. it is a logical measure of a number of important skills. it isn't the only possible one, but it isn't arbitrary and it isn't knitting...

 

Haha, I love the irony. Talking to pre-xxxx is like talking to a brick wall.

 

And sure, you develop an important skill of carving soap, which unfortunately isn't transferable to doing an endo or cutting a cavity prep or taking out a wisdom tooth.

 

Anyways, I decided to come back briefly after going through the system and seems things have not changed too much here, aw well...

[donnadee]

Haha, I love the irony. Talking to pre-xxxx is like talking to a brick wall.

 

And sure, you develop an important skill of carving soap, which unfortunately isn't transferable to doing an endo or cutting a cavity prep or taking out a wisdom tooth.

 

Anyways, I decided to come back briefly after going through the system and seems things have not changed too much here, aw well...

 

i dont want to hijack the thread but im curious Visceral...are u specializing by any chance? i will be entering uoft dents this year and wanted some info..

thanks

[emac2014]

Haha, I love the irony. Talking to pre-xxxx is like talking to a brick wall.

 

And sure, you develop an important skill of carving soap, which unfortunately isn't transferable to doing an endo or cutting a cavity prep or taking out a wisdom tooth.

 

Anyways, I decided to come back briefly after going through the system and seems things have not changed too much here, aw well...

 

Hahaah clearly someone missed the crux of the argument... twice. It isn't about learning, its about testing a skill (/skills) that is inborn and learned throughout development. This being the case, if you're going for a profession that relies on such skills, it might be a sign if it takes you an inordinant amount of time/effort to train yourself to carve soap because you're lacking the actual skills. I don't think the cda really intended to have you care 40 or 50 soaps in preparation for this thing, I think its more like, here's some soap so you can get used to the blade, consistency, and timing.

 

Just because performance on the test didn't significantly correlate in one study with success doesn't mean a whole lot because as we know, some people trick their way through with 50 soaps of practice (learning to carve soap and not rely on skill), and others do it a different way.

 

And thanks for the little shot there. completely uncalled for because the logic behind what i'm saying is totally legitimate whether you like it or not, and whether you agree or don't. Many people take the carving test with 12 or less soaps practice and do very well, and that is a display of the skill the CDA is looking for when they set the test.

[donnadee]

Hahaah clearly someone missed the crux of the argument... twice. It isn't about learning, its about testing a skill (/skills) that is inborn and learned throughout development. This being the case, if you're going for a profession that relies on such skills, it might be a sign if it takes you an inordinant amount of time/effort to train yourself to carve soap because you're lacking the actual skills. I don't think the cda really intended to have you care 40 or 50 soaps in preparation for this thing, I think its more like, here's some soap so you can get used to the blade, consistency, and timing.

 

Just because performance on the test didn't significantly correlate in one study with success doesn't mean a whole lot because as we know, some people trick their way through with 50 soaps of practice (learning to carve soap and not rely on skill), and others do it a different way.

 

And thanks for the little shot there. completely uncalled for because the logic behind what i'm saying is totally legitimate whether you like it or not, and whether you agree or don't. Many people take the carving test with 12 or less soaps practice and do very well, and that is a display of the skill the CDA is looking for when they set the test.

 

lol man..whether or not carving is a test of skill doesnt really matter in the end if you're in ontario...neither uoft nor uwo looks at the carving score and im sure there are dentists who may have not done well on carving on the DAT, yet have made dentists since they meet the criterion set forth to be able to practice...if you're good at it, good for you, but not knowing how to carve before dental school ,should not preclude someone from dentistry

[Visceral]

 

Just because performance on the test didn't significantly correlate in one study with success doesn't mean a whole lot because as we know, some people trick their way through with 50 soaps of practice (learning to carve soap and not rely on skill), and others do it a different way.

 

True, how dare someone trick their way into performing a task well by learning and practicing how to do it. I do wonder why we go to school sometimes?

 

Anyways, I am done here. I post a study refuting your beliefs that carving soap is correlated with actual clinical performance. But of course, you don't "feel" comfortable with that conclusion so you grasp at straws like it's not valid because some students may have spent more time practicing to get good (sounds familiar to dental school for some reason....) Typical pre-xxxx`s who actually haven`t experienced life but seem to know so much about it.

 

The determinants of the quality one clinicial work at first is natural skill, but then rapidly eclipsed by practice put in to get good so your natural start point becomes insignificant. The school ensures everyone is technically competent, and after more years of practice everyone becomes good. This natural inborn skill you seem to put so much emphasis upon is even less significant. After several years of experience, what finally distinguishes the quality of one's work from others is only how much you care. Do you strive for perfection? Will you redo work that is below your standards but still "good enough"?

 

Now that you understand the determinants of clinical quality, perhaps you will view the study with a different light. All studies are not perfect, but to disagree just because you don`t feel naturally comfortable with the conclusion is dumb. The Earth is not at the centre of our solar system, eh?

[emac2014]

lol man..whether or not carving is a test of skill doesnt really matter in the end if you're in ontario...neither uoft nor uwo looks at the carving score and im sure there are dentists who may have not done well on carving on the DAT, yet have made dentists since they meet the criterion set forth to be able to practice...if you're good at it, good for you, but not knowing how to carve before dental school ,should not preclude someone from dentistry

 

 

 

Nope but having weak dexterity might.

[donnadee]

Nope but having weak dexterity might.

 

it seems u're putting rather too much emphasis on ones ability to carve before entering dental school rather than being able to learn to carve a tooth in dental school...

which i think is wrong...4 yrs of dental school are not there to goof around...weak dexterity ,as displayed by a poor carving score, can be/ and is improved during dental school...dental school curriculum, at least in Canada, is created based on the assumption that those entering into dental school have no prior experience with carving...hence, what one will learn in 4 years will suffice...hence whether or not one does well on DAT carving will not matter

[Lunasly]

Uhmmm just wondering if anyone can answer my previous question:

 

Thanks for the tips, everyone. Does anyone know of a good study guide to follow for studying for the DAT? I am planning to dedicate my next summer to studying for the DAT and I will be studying for the 4 months of summer plus a little bit of review for September and October and then I will write in November.

[emac2014]

Uhmmm just wondering if anyone can answer my previous question:

 

That depends on a few things and I think you're best to design your own. It depends what you're weak on and whether you've written other similar exams (MCAT, or DAT previously).

 

Obviously you want to be reading for pleasure when possible to keep your reading speed up, and doing an RC test once in a while will help. For bio and chem, use the kaplan blue book combined with CliffsAPBio and Chem. that'll be more than enough to learn the material, and if you practice with the cliffsap questions as opposed to DAT prep books you'll find dat questions super easy and do well.

 

For PAT just get CrackDAT PAT. do the stuff in the kaplan book for practice but CDP is what you need and all you need to do well.

 

Beyond that buy practice tests (IQ publications, CDA kit, etc.) as needed, and space them out, HOWEVER, be aware that all of these resources, especially Kaplan and IQ (and with IQ this is such an issue that I wish I never bought them) have many mistakes in questions and answers. You are fully prepared when you go through these resources and are confident that you are right and they are wrong when checking your answers and finding discrepencies. Unfortunately I've yet to find a "perfect" practice resource, I even remember the CDA practice test having a mistake or 2.

[emac2014]

those are great quotes

 

for reall so ignorant lol. weak