Caide Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I'm going to McGill and I need to take calc, bio, chem, & physics first year. This gives me 14 credits first semester (calc, bio are 3 credits each; chem, physics are 4 credits each), and 15 credits second semester (calc 2 is 4 credits instead of 3) for a total of 29. Does this completely screw me up for UofT & Western (and any other schools that require a full course)? Western could work out fine, but first year will probably be my best year, and if I don't take a full course load during that year, I don't think it can be used. With UofT, they require a full course load all 4 years to give you the weighted gpa (which is effectively taking 8 Bs or Cs off my transcript). Is it possible they'd give me an exception or something? I could either take an extra 3 credit course first year like MUAR 211 The Art of Listening or another lighter course, but that's still 17 credits, and I don't want to overload. I could also take 4 credit course MATH 139 (Precalc + Calc 1) instead of MATH 140 (Calc 1), giving me 30 credits for the year. The issue with this is I imagine there would be many more people taking MATH 140 than MATH 139 (I haven't even seen MATH 139 mentioned on any forums or facebook groups or anyone else I've talked to), so it'd be easier to work on problems and get help from others that are actually in the same course. In addition, MATH 139 has 2 good teachers, and 1 awful one, while MATH 140 has 1 good teacher and the same awful one. This means my chances of getting an excellent teacher is better with MATH 139. I've been debating this for a while, and I can't decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Don't shoot yourself in the foot for no good reason. Take a full course load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OIC Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Not at all (from what I gather about UT at least). Operating on a 3 credit/class system 27 credits = nine semester-long classes and therefore would not qualify. However, 28 credits would mean 9 semester-long classes plus a little extra which they consider to be full time. From the official blog: http://utmedadmissions.wordpress.com/2010/02/01/february-1-2010/ Q:OMSAS gave my 5 credit semester courses a full course length equivalency. Since you use the actual transcript to calculate the wGPA, would you consider a 5 credit semester course as a full year or half year course? A:In terms of its weight in the GPA calculation, it would be considered a full course. In terms of whether or not the weighting formula is applied, we would be looking at the overall credits earned that year to look for the minimum 28 at least. Q:I have the same question. Is it either 14 credits per semester OR 28 credits per full year? Or does it have to be 14/semester AND 28 per full year? A:It’s a minimum of 28 credits in the year. I only mentioned the 14 credits (i.e., half a year) because in the situation described we were talking about a co-op program where potentially an application could be made with, for example, 3 and a half years on the transcript. Maybe double check to make sure but that is how I interpret these comments...can anyone else add insight here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Are you suggesting the OP contact U/T adcoms directly for clarification? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caide Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Don't shoot yourself in the foot for no good reason. Take a full course load. I suppose I should. Which method would you suggest then? MATH 139 or an elective to give me 17 credits? Not at all (from what I gather about UT at least). Operating on a 3 credit/class system 27 credits = nine semester-long classes and therefore would not qualify. However, 28 credits would mean 9 semester-long classes plus a little extra which they consider to be full time. From the official blog: http://utmedadmissions.wordpress.com/2010/02/01/february-1-2010/ Q:OMSAS gave my 5 credit semester courses a full course length equivalency. Since you use the actual transcript to calculate the wGPA, would you consider a 5 credit semester course as a full year or half year course? A:In terms of its weight in the GPA calculation, it would be considered a full course. In terms of whether or not the weighting formula is applied, we would be looking at the overall credits earned that year to look for the minimum 28 at least. Q:I have the same question. Is it either 14 credits per semester OR 28 credits per full year? Or does it have to be 14/semester AND 28 per full year? A:It’s a minimum of 28 credits in the year. I only mentioned the 14 credits (i.e., half a year) because in the situation described we were talking about a co-op program where potentially an application could be made with, for example, 3 and a half years on the transcript. Maybe double check to make sure but that is how I interpret these comments...can anyone else add insight here? Interesting. However, according to their website, "A GPA weighting formula may be used for students who have completed at least three years of university study and have taken a full course load (i.e., five full credits), during the regular academic session, in each of their academic years." and applicants "who have taken less than five full-courses (or 10 half-courses) in any given year will be considered on the average of all courses taken during the regular academic sessions on a full-time basis. The weighting formula will not be applied." Conflicting information isn't it? I'll give them a call later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I suppose I should. Which method would you suggest then? MATH 139 or an elective to give me 17 credits? Assuming this is the way to go for the U/T weighted GPA, my inclination would be to go for MATH 139. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OIC Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Please let us know what they say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preppy038 Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I went to McGill and I know that taking only four courses in first-year doesn't satisfy the full-time 5 full course-load requirement. It becomes a problem when you convert credits into OMSAS credits. I highly recommend you take an extra elective to make sure you're taking 5 courses each semester (5 courses each worth 3-4 credits). 17 credits sound a lot, but it's because of the number of labs you have to attend to. I see no reason to take MATH139 since it is for students who've never done calculus before. When OMSAS looks at your credits, they will count each of CHEM, PHYS, BIOL and Calculus as one half-course, meaning if you take only four of those courses, you will have only taken four half-courses each semester ----> 4 full courses first-year. Some good electives include MATH133, MUAR courses (Western music is super easy if you're a musician), ATOC courses, and ECON208,209 if you're confident with economics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caide Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I went to McGill and I know that taking only four courses in first-year doesn't satisfy the full-time 5 full course-load requirement. It becomes a problem when you convert credits into OMSAS credits. I highly recommend you take an extra elective to make sure you're taking 5 courses each semester (5 courses each worth 3-4 credits). 17 credits sound a lot, but it's because of the number of labs you have to attend to. I see no reason to take MATH139 since it is for students who've never done calculus before. When OMSAS looks at your credits, they will count each of CHEM, PHYS, BIOL and Calculus as one half-course, meaning if you take only four of those courses, you will have only taken four half-courses each semester ----> 4 full courses first-year. Some good electives include MATH133, MUAR courses (Western music is super easy if you're a musician), ATOC courses, and ECON208,209 if you're confident with economics But then I'd have to take 18 credits my second year (and McGill doesn't even allow more than 17 without departmental approval). That just seems too much to me. Anyway, I called both UWO and UofT. Western made it clear that I needed minimum 30 credit-hours for the year, so 29 wouldn't do. UofT said that they count 28+ to be a full course load, so 29 my first year would be fine. Also, I asked about the OMSAS conversion. They said that you can just email admissions and they'll manually correct it as long as you have enough credits. So, now with a bit more info, I need to decide whether taking MATH 139 to have my first year count at Western (by the way, it's not like I can't just use an upper year instead) is worth a 17% decrease in chances of getting a good/real teacher my first year, losing the ability to study and ask questions (as well as I could be at least) with other students, and gaining 1 credit in course load (larger course load, even 1 credit, means less time to spend on other courses). Opinions still appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OIC Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Thanks for reporting back! Personally I think the extra course is worth opening up the possibility of going to Western but it seems like you have a few things to weigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipstream Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 But then I'd have to take 18 credits my second year (and McGill doesn't even allow more than 17 without departmental approval). That just seems too much to me. Anyway, I called both UWO and UofT. Western made it clear that I needed minimum 30 credit-hours for the year, so 29 wouldn't do. UofT said that they count 28+ to be a full course load, so 29 my first year would be fine. Also, I asked about the OMSAS conversion. They said that you can just email admissions and they'll manually correct it as long as you have enough credits. So, now with a bit more info, I need to decide whether taking MATH 139 to have my first year count at Western (by the way, it's not like I can't just use an upper year instead) is worth a 17% decrease in chances of getting a good/real teacher my first year, losing the ability to study and ask questions (as well as I could be at least) with other students, and gaining 1 credit in course load (larger course load, even 1 credit, means less time to spend on other courses). Opinions still appreciated I go to McGill as well. I don't think math 139 would be very good for some of the reasons you mentioned. It helps to have friends who are taking it for assignments and quizzes, and most of your science friends will be in 140. I did 29 credits, and most people I know did that as well, so I guess that's just how it works out. Math 141 in my year was the "killer", so I'd also suggest 140 to have a good enough foundation to ace 141, which is still the class with the lowest average I've taken (I'm going into U2). In terms of "getting the better prof" it doesn't much matter since you can attend whichever lecture you want anyways. The exams are the same. I wouldn't suggest 18Cr in the second semester for sure. My grades actually got better as I went on since I really enjoy my major, so you might prefer to use your upper years anyways (where you have to take 30+ credits). Hope you're looking forward to frosh week and coming to McGill! It's an awesome place. Will you be staying in Rez? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 You are going through a very thorough process of analysis and doing your homework properly - which is excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 I'm going to McGill and I need to take calc, bio, chem, & physics first year. This gives me 14 credits first semester (calc, bio are 3 credits each; chem, physics are 4 credits each), and 15 credits second semester (calc 2 is 4 credits instead of 3) for a total of 29. Does this completely screw me up for UofT & Western (and any other schools that require a full course)? Western could work out fine, but first year will probably be my best year, and if I don't take a full course load during that year, I don't think it can be used. With UofT, they require a full course load all 4 years to give you the weighted gpa (which is effectively taking 8 Bs or Cs off my transcript). Is it possible they'd give me an exception or something? I could either take an extra 3 credit course first year like MUAR 211 The Art of Listening or another lighter course, but that's still 17 credits, and I don't want to overload. I could also take 4 credit course MATH 139 (Precalc + Calc 1) instead of MATH 140 (Calc 1), giving me 30 credits for the year. The issue with this is I imagine there would be many more people taking MATH 140 than MATH 139 (I haven't even seen MATH 139 mentioned on any forums or facebook groups or anyone else I've talked to), so it'd be easier to work on problems and get help from others that are actually in the same course. In addition, MATH 139 has 2 good teachers, and 1 awful one, while MATH 140 has 1 good teacher and the same awful one. This means my chances of getting an excellent teacher is better with MATH 139. I've been debating this for a while, and I can't decide. Don't count on universities making exceptions. Rules are put and all applicant must follow them whatever the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caide Posted July 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 You are going through a very thorough process of analysis and doing your homework properly - which is excellent! Thanks, I get obsessed with these things. Hope you're looking forward to frosh week and coming to McGill! It's an awesome place. Will you be staying in Rez? I am! Really looking forward to it. And yea, I was put into New Rez (3rd choice, but still great). Just an update for the MATH 139 or 140 thing, the professors I listed earlier were incorrect and outdated. I register tomorrow, and there's only one lecture with a pretty awesome teacher for MATH 139. MATH 140 has 3 sections available to register and only one section lists professor (and he's not a good one at all). Also, I'm not so sure MATH 139, being 4 credits, even has a higher workload, because I'm in class the same amount of time as MATH 139 (3 credits). Though I guess either we rush through material faster (not good) or they don't cover as much calc or cover it as well (less preparation for MATH 141). There were some conflicts with MATH 139 and a lab I had to take and they told me they have another lab spot (it's listed as temporarily closed on the site) for people with unavoidable conflicts. This lab spot lets me have the perfect schedule (bio chem phys in a row on tues/thurs; lab, break, calc on mon/wed/fri, with everything starting around 10-11 and ending at 2) compared to the MATH 140 schedule which is in general just not as ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peef Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 top it off with a 0.5 credit course. then you won`t have to worry about not having a full course load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostLamb Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Yea, I remember this common problem at McGill. 29 credits in U0 science. Poorly thought-out system, considering that all of you are gunning for medicine (no joke!! some people change their minds pretty quick, though!). To be honest, just take the 29 and accept it as a 'learning' year. You can always add a 5th year (often the case if you change majors after U1 or go down an honours route and want to take more than just science courses). First year is a transition year for everyone. You will be plenty busy between labs and classes, so just ease yourself in, develop good study habits, and enjoy university. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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