An Interesting Story...

[TheEmeraldTablet]

Overseas, in many countries you enter medical school straight from high school. My friend/cousin is pretty unmotivated but his parents were adamant that he had to be a doctor. In grade 12 his average on the entrance exam for medical school (kind of like an MCAT) was around 55%. In school he barely passed some of his courses and failed some courses. He simply is weak academically. His parents and everyone was incredibly concerned for his future. He had no chance of getting into any of the colleges he applied to and he knew his future was bleak.

 

Now normally you need crazy high grades to get in and admission is extremely, extremely competitive but his parents had connections with the owner of a private medical school and guess what he got in:eek: ! Into a school where the entering average is somewhere in the nineties. I find it incredulous because here I am trying so so hard along with so many others on trying to become the best we can and this guy gets in!

 

Now I understand why it is so hard for IMGs to make it here because granted some are definitely brilliant students but some are like my friend. You never know what you are getting.

[future_doc]

You never know what you are getting.

 

Buyer beware.

 

Our system here in Canada does result in a pretty safe atmosphere for patients with physicians who are licenced to practice here.

[thebouque]

Lol bribes exist even here in North America my friend, and in most countries getting into med school is as competitive as here. Don't judge IMGs only on an anecdote. Also in many European countries they have a better health care system than ours.

 

Peace

[limoncello]

That is not why it's hard for IMGs to make it here....It's the slim chances of matching to a Canadian residency due to limited amount of spots that makes it difficult.....

[Clever]

Lol bribes exist even here in North America my friend, and in most countries getting into med school is as competitive as here. Don't judge IMGs only on an anecdote. Also in many European countries they have a better health care system than ours.

 

Peace

 

That's because in many European countries they actually care about making the patient better, not just profit.

[future_doc]

Does it change once we leave med school and go into practice?

[thebouque]

Does what change F_D?

[future_doc]

in many European countries they actually care about making the patient better, not just profit.

 

I am asking this:

 

We are med students and our goal is to save lives, extend lives, improve quality of life, etc. Certainly, at this time, we are not thinking about the profit.

 

Once one goes into practice, does this thought pattern become blurred with "profit"? I would hope not!

[Mithril]

There's a difference between thinking about just profit and thinking about profit. Unless you are a completely idealistic (read: unrealistic) person, profit and money will be on the mind regardless of how much you attempt to deny it.

[future_doc]

There is the business aspect to medicine that is obviously important. Once set up properly, then you practice medicine and the money takes care of itself. For example, you buy into aa building that is owned by doctors only of different specialties and some GPs. There is a built-in referral base right there, the value of the building appreciates, the rent paid goes toward the mortgage so you are building up equity, you set up a corporation to minimize taxes, etc. And you may have your practice in more than one location, while having an arragement for another physician to use your facilities in location A while you are in location B for an agreed all inclusive price. But the name of the game is to focus on the practice medicine for the benefit of the patients.

[Mithril]

People go into medicine for a variety of reasons without one necessarily being favoured more heavily than any others. My own well-being and health along with my wife and kids outweighs that of any patient's. To say that physicians and med students are not thinking about money and then backtrack to say that "alright, but the primary reason for going into medicine is for the patients" is misleading. Some people go into medicine and end up in research or political lobbying with no sort of interaction with patients. The point being that yes, people in med think about money.

[rmorelan]

Some people go into medicine and end up in research or political lobbying with no sort of interaction with patients.

 

Of course that doesn't mean their focus isn't still on the patients I suppose :: Lobbying in particular etc.

 

I think it is fair to say that the field as whole would like doctors whose primary focus is on improving patients (never seen an award given out to the doctor that made the most in a given year although now that I think of it that probably is its own reward )- but the profession naturally makes sure its members are very well taken care of. There is a sense that if you main focus is just making money you are more vulnerable to cutting corners in some way, and if you screw up as a result you damage the entire profession - which is to say the least a major concern of all the CMA etc etc

 

Old argument in any case - at the end of the day if the doctors we training provide the best care for their patients - by whatever motivation that personally drives them - we are doing fine. If someone wants to show that money making behaviour leads to less ethical doctors then perhaps we should track billings vs number of successful complaints or punished offenses etc and maybe we could try to be objective

[future_doc]

People go into medicine for a variety of reasons without one necessarily being favoured more heavily than any others....The point being that yes, people in med think about money.

 

Medicine is not the place to make the most money if that is the end game. I have a friend in his ealry 30s, an investment banker - he pulls in $1M+/year and it would have been higher pre 2008. So, if you are smart, perosnable, a good communicator, etc. and if it is about money, you can make a ton of money elsewhere.

 

Money is definitely important but it you attend to the business side of the practice appropriately and with professional guidance, the money will take care of itself and you can focus on practicing the best medicine of which you are capable so as to protect and enhence the health of your patients.

[obi]

Overseas, in many countries you enter medical school straight from high school. My friend/cousin is pretty unmotivated but his parents were adamant that he had to be a doctor. In grade 12 his average on the entrance exam for medical school (kind of like an MCAT) was around 55%. In school he barely passed some of his courses and failed some courses. He simply is weak academically. His parents and everyone was incredibly concerned for his future. He had no chance of getting into any of the colleges he applied to and he knew his future was bleak.

 

Now normally you need crazy high grades to get in and admission is extremely, extremely competitive but his parents had connections with the owner of a private medical school and guess what he got in:eek: ! Into a school where the entering average is somewhere in the nineties. I find it incredulous because here I am trying so so hard along with so many others on trying to become the best we can and this guy gets in!

 

Now I understand why it is so hard for IMGs to make it here because granted some are definitely brilliant students but some are like my friend. You never know what you are getting.

 

Your title makes it seem like you accept this as something that happens, but your post makes it seem like you're really surprised. Which is it? I'm sure this happens quite often, even in Canada. (Maybe not to the extent of a failing average gaining admission, but knowing a member of the adcom giving someone who's already gained an interview invite a higher chance of getting in)

[Leon]

I know some people from my HS who have almost completed their medical degree abroad. Some of them were exceptional students when graduating, others were borderline failing. Bribery to get seats happens a lot, in medicine as well as in other professions.

 

It's probably rarer in N. America relative to developing countries but it happens and we can't do much about it. In the end it comes down to your own personal satisfaction. A nice saying I once heard comes to mind:

 

"When you're born, you cry and all around you people smile. Live your life such that when you die, you smile and all around you people cry."

[rmorelan]

Your title makes it seem like you accept this as something that happens, but your post makes it seem like you're really surprised. Which is it? I'm sure this happens quite often, even in Canada. (Maybe not to the extent of a failing average gaining admission, but knowing a member of the adcom giving someone who's already gained an interview invite a higher chance of getting in)

 

since the adcoms that interview you are randomly selected and not known to you in advance I am not sure how that would work? You are never even alone with just one of them.

 

With a MMI it would even be harder I suppose

[future_doc]

For any reputable school, i.e., all med schools in Canada, if a member of the adcom interviewing you, knows you, such person would undoutedly recuse him/herself.

[obi]

For any reputable school, i.e., all med schools in Canada, if a member of the adcom interviewing you, knows you, such person would undoutedly recuse him/herself.

 

undoubtedly? I dont think the world is so full of rainbows and daisies....