Lying for EC's?

[LupeFiasco]

Yes this is a troll but I think it's important to get a few things cleared up.

 

1. This isn't like applying to university.

2. Applying to medical school is a BIG deal. A bigger deal than applying for a full time job. Once you get into a Canadian Med school, your set to become a doctor.

3. If you get to Interview stage they look at EVERYTHING about you. They will look at all your volunteering experiences and you'll have to talk about your EC's specifically in your Interview.

4. Inorder to apply, YOU NEED REFERENCE LETTERS. They double check you didn't make them up by calling each individual as they will be spending MILLIONS of dollars to train you to become a doctor.

5. You get caught, everything is over. It's not going to be taken lightly, you'll be black listed.

 

P.S. If you even consider doing this, you won't make it to become a doctor as you'll fail the interview with a character like yours. If you consider saving people's life by lying your way through and becoming a fraud, shame on you from the bottom of my heart.

 

Your point 3 is not true. Western will not look at everything, McMaster will not look at everything (they say they do a full file review after the interview stage but to my knowledge that only consists of going through reference letters and the sort to look for any red flags), Manitoba will not look at everything, and to my knowledge (although I could be wrong here) Saskatchewan will not look at everything. Queens just started looking at everything this year.

 

Your point 4 is not completely accurate. To my knowledge, they don't call your references. Only UBC is known to contact verifiers although most other schools say they will contact them (but never actually do).

 

The McMaster thing about not being able to apply for 7 years is true. I'm not sure about other schools though; although I have heard that OMSAS can blacklist applicants for various reasons.

 

I'm not feeding the troll; just trying to clear a few things up as they are important IMO.

[deucex]

Hi there,

I'm a bit confused about something. You say in this question that your GPA is 3.95 in chemical engineering. Yet, you've written a post previously stating that you are planning on taking an engineering degree:

 

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?p=613198#post613198

 

Would be nice if you cleared that up here, considering that you mentioned the reason for lack of extracurriculars was due to obtaining a high GPA in your engineering degree.

 

Im doing this as a hypothetical question. In the case that it might happen to me. (Probably will)

[xkittens]

I will pass on to you what my jaded family doctor said to me a few weeks ago:

"Go into dentistry, there's more money in it."

[bj89]

DON'T FEED THE TROLL.

[Gametime24]

Im doing this as a hypothetical question. In the case that it might happen to me. (Probably will)

 

Then you are nowhere near the caliber of student you seem to think you are. If you think an engineering undergrad will consume so much of your time that you need to lie about your EC's, have fun getting through residency hours, etc. one day, should you manage to lie your way in.

 

Btw, engineering is no harder than honours chem, math, or physics. That's for damn sure. For example, differential equations (math 2723) is taken by all engineers, math students, physics students, and chemistry students. Guess who got the top 10 marks in the course? 3 math students, 4 physics students, 2 chemistry students, and only 1 engineer made the top 10, while they (engineers) claimed it was their hardest course (it was most definitely not the hardest course for the chemistry students, kinetics and transition metal chemistry blew it out of the water)

 

If you do not think you can make time for EC's in that degree, take something with less of a laboratory component and use that time to volunteer and work.

 

I think you need to seriously reconsider whether or not this degree program is for you, it reallllllly does not seem like the best path for you to get into medical school. Although, the fact you even considered lying on your app makes me hope that you never get in.. That may sound bitter but as it was said before, you are making a mockery of all the hard work tons of other students put into this. It's rude.

[<abstract>]

Then you are nowhere near the caliber of student you seem to think you are. If you think an engineering undergrad will consume so much of your time that you need to lie about your EC's, have fun getting through residency hours, etc. one day, should you manage to lie your way in.

 

Btw, engineering is no harder than honours chem, math, or physics. That's for damn sure. For example, differential equations (math 2723) is taken by all engineers, math students, physics students, and chemistry students. Guess who got the top 10 marks in the course? 3 math students, 4 physics students, 2 chemistry students, and only 1 engineer made the top 10, while they (engineers) claimed it was their hardest course (it was most definitely not the hardest course for the chemistry students, kinetics and transition metal chemistry blew it out of the water)

 

If you do not think you can make time for EC's in that degree, take something with less of a laboratory component and use that time to volunteer and work.

 

I think you need to seriously reconsider whether or not this degree program is for you, it reallllllly does not seem like the best path for you to get into medical school. Although, the fact you even considered lying on your app makes me hope that you never get in.. That may sound bitter but as it was said before, you are making a mockery of all the hard work tons of other students put into this. It's rude.

 

Not to be a prude but:

First off, I highly resent that bolded statement. Differential equations was a walk in the park, try fluid flow and heat transfer (now that is a *****). Furthermore, while most honours sciences course have 5 classes per semester, in engineering you are stuck with 6 per semester (minimum) after first year. I also only get 2 elective courses throughout my whole u.g. in engineering. Those electives are spent on biology prereqs. (lol). I will probably have to take more prereqs over the summer in addition to studying for the mcat and doing research and e.c.'s.

 

Now I do understand the point of the other post in that if you can't handle any e.c.'s in your program you should reevalute your priorities. Personally, I can handle a buch of e.c.'s while maintaining a decent gpa, granted I am sure there are some art students who have tons more e.c.'s, but good lucking finding a job if your med aspirations fall through.

 

 

In the end, there is absolutely no excuse for lying on your app, first of all if you get in, you take away a chance from someone who actually does the work. Secondly, the adcoms are not stupid, they will be able to see through you like glass and you will be exposed for the fraud you are!

 

Cheers,

 

ABS:mad:

[HBP]

People lie all the time. The OP is not the first, nor will he be the last.

 

It's a stupid system that puts strong emphasis on activities that are often unverifiable due to logistical reasons.

[anxious_101]

People lie all the time. The OP is not the first, nor will he be the last.

 

It's a stupid system that puts strong emphasis on activities that are often unverifiable due to logistical reasons.

 

++1, Couldn't agree more!

 

The whole Canadian admissions system is a sham. I personally know of many awesome people that got rejected while some shady characters got in because they pulled the right strings.

 

Then you have schools like Mac trying to invent novel ways to improve the system - only to come up with the most dumbest idea ever with CASPer.

 

And what is up with this 7 year rule at Mac if one is caught lying on their apps? wtf? Is there some study showing that deceitful people revert to honest people in 7 years time or something? Pfff.

[Gametime24]

Not sure what DE's class you took but ours made the whole mcat look like a walk in the park, legitimately put more studying into that final to get an 88 (was one of those top 10 marks btw) than I did the whole mcat for a 35.. not that 35 is amazing, cause there is a lot higher kicking around here (a.dri.anna got a 39 i think??)

 

anyway, our chemistry program also has almost no electives in it, such that in order to cover all of my biology programs and still get my honours degree I have overloaded in second year with 11 courses, am taking 12 in third year and will take 11 again in fourth year.. engineers aren't the only people who overload.. also, we take physical chemistry courses on heat transfer, thermodynamics, all that jazz, I've actually helped my friend Stuart (electrical engineer) with his thermo course because ours was first semester and his was second so I had already covered it. Also, ALL of us have to study for the mcat, research, do ec's etc, so thats no different for an engineer and doesnt really have a place in an argument why engineering is harder..

 

Anyway, I realize you said MOST honours programs, and that is true, most honours don't have to overload. I'm just saying that personally, I have more hours of class per week than all of my friends in engineering and just as many labs to write, etc, and our courses are just as difficult. I still do ECs and have a 4.0, and am still NOWHERE near the best applicant for med school. My only point was that he should not be acting so entitled for being in an engineering program with a semihigh gpa that he actually hasnt even achieved yet because there are other programs that are just as difficult and other students doing just as well.

 

I meant no disrespect to engineering programs in any way, I have many friends in them and I realize the challenges you guys face, I just didn't want him to have the delusional idea that it is some sort of holy program that only angels can do well in and will guarantee you a spot in medical school lol..

 

On a different note though, how far into your program are you? Are you applying to med soon??

 

 

 

Not to be a prude but:

First off' date=' I highly resent that bolded statement. Differential equations was a walk in the park, try fluid flow and heat transfer (now that is a *****). Furthermore, while most honours sciences course have 5 classes per semester, in engineering you are stuck with 6 per semester (minimum) after first year. I also only get 2 elective courses throughout my whole u.g. in engineering. Those electives are spent on biology prereqs. (lol). I will probably have to take more prereqs over the summer in addition to studying for the mcat and doing research and e.c.'s.

 

Now I do understand the point of the other post in that if you can't handle any e.c.'s in your program you should reevalute your priorities. Personally, I can handle a buch of e.c.'s while maintaining a decent gpa, granted I am sure there are some art students who have tons more e.c.'s, but good lucking finding a job if your med aspirations fall through.

 

 

In the end, there is absolutely no excuse for lying on your app, first of all if you get in, you take away a chance from someone who actually does the work. Secondly, the adcoms are not stupid, they will be able to see through you like glass and you will be exposed for the fraud you are!

 

Cheers,

 

ABS:mad:[/quote']

[Doctor_Strangelove]

Besides, i only want to become a doctor for the money and job security.[/u]

 

Obvious Troll, is Obvious.

[kylamonkey]

I know this is a troll but the whole thread still makes me feel sick.

[Lactic Folly]

But it's somewhat reassuring about our collective morals.

[future_doc]

.........

[ubcMDhopeful]

People lie all the time. The OP is not the first, nor will he be the last.

 

It's a stupid system that puts strong emphasis on activities that are often unverifiable due to logistical reasons.

 

This is a good point.

 

 

Although making up an entire africa Ghandi story is probs never going to happen, I can see applicants exaggerating to the point where it becomes a lye. I personally cannot do this as I will just stress out too much and show it in the interview if they ask me but the application process does favour “shady” characters that can get away with these type of things.

[Lost&Found]

I'm surprised by how much this thread actually upset me...Here I am stressing out over my GPA, MCAT, and ECs so that I can do what I honestly believe will make me happy in life (and I know I'm not the only one) and then there are people like the OP who have barely started university and are already looking for shortcuts...Absolutely ridiculous.

[Doctor_Strangelove]

This is a good point.

 

 

Although making up an entire africa Ghandi story is probs never going to happen, I can see applicants exaggerating to the point where it becomes a lye. I personally cannot do this as I will just stress out too much and show it in the interview if they ask me but the application process does favour “shady” characters that can get away with these type of things.

 

Ya I mean like you said, I've seen people exaggerate to the point of practically inventing the whole thing lol but I highly doubt someone is as crazy as to lie about an entire fake trip to Africa.

I can lie as well as I breath but always remember that the strongest lies are built on foundations of truth.

[Clever]

Go ahead and lie about your EC's.. everyone* does it to some extent. But be warned: I'm pretty sure they will verify at least one of your EC's and when they find out you lied you will be put on the "douche" list and not get into med. Also, if you're doing it for money and job security, do dent..

 

*maybe not EVERYONE

[Corie]

Let me give you all a great reason not to lie. When a school varifies and discovers that you have lied, they may contact other schools. If you happen to be admitted at another school, lieing on an application is enough for dismissal. You'll be wasting a few years and end up on med school blacklists. Just do the volunteering and actually learn from it.

 

One shouldn't volunteer to put it on your resume, rather volunteering is to develop your personality and gain experiences that will prepare you to become a good doctor.

[Guest JustAnotherStudent]

awesome trolling skill, pull the right string and got 5 pages

[r201]

Lying on a CV shows lack of integrity, and I firmly believe that if someone is even considering that option, then he maybe really reconsider his career choice, since medicine is a profession that requires a high amount of honesty and respect for other candidates who have really spent their time volunteering.

[Gametime24]

But it's somewhat reassuring about our collective morals.

 

Agreed!

[apache]

lets cut the whole honesty and ethics in medicine thing ok, medicine requires about as much honesty and respect as investment banking, and some of the most dishonest people with the loosest ethics in medicine are usually the people who are or end up at the top of their field, governing their field or becoming the thought leaders, just like in any field.

 

in this case, don't lie, the consequences are too high relative to the reward and there's a good chance you'll be caught, negating all the work you put in, you would have to spend so much time faking volunteering and teaching elaborate cover stories to your fake verifiers that you might as well volunteer.

 

on an aside, unless it's a major scholarship, no one ever verifies what's on your cv for most scholarships, not that i'd encourage that sort of behaviour.

 

Lying on a CV shows lack of integrity, and I firmly believe that if someone is even considering that option, then he maybe really reconsider his career choice, since medicine is a profession that requires a high amount of honesty and respect for other candidates who have really spent their time volunteering.

[apache]

hehe, here's something interesting from a psychology website:

 

The danger these people present is their ability to mimic emotion and thereby blend into everyday society; to a certain extent.

 

Actually "blend" may not be the best term. Sociopaths many times are narsicistic personalities. The are normally extremely charming and even captivating to their victims. They many times stand out as exciting, daring and even bigger that life. Their daring personalities and confidence makes them extremely successful in job interviews as their conning and charm can disarm the most diligent interviewers. Their risk taking style can move them quickly up the corporate ladder as they leave a wake of destroyed advesaries in their wake. Because the rules don't apply to them, they seemingly make moves that daring and on the edge. They are competitors in the truest sense as is indicated in further discussions on this site, this competitiveness is part of their personality.

 

They exhibit those traits most desirable in the business world. There are documented stories of sociopaths being so convincing and overpowering in job interviews that they are hired without their histories and resumes ever being verified.

 

They lie convincingly, con with artistic skill and manipulate with cunning. Only the most diligent are but putty in their hands.

 

If you are serious though, then go ahead. I'm sure you could just list a bunch of friends as verifiers. The MMI is designed to weed out psychopath's though- you might run into some trouble there.

[Robin Hood]

The OP said he finished Chemical Engineering but in a previous post, he said he will start engineering, so why are you wasting your time with him?

[McMarauder]

Also, if you're doing it for money and job security, do dent..

 

it's definitely not as secure as med as the demand isn't as high.