Dany Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I know that we have shortage of doctors in general, everywhere in Canada, but which one is even more in demand, internal or emerg? youre free to compare general IM vs EM or IM sub-sepcialty (cardiology, GI, endocrino... you name it) vs EM p.s. when I say EM, I mean 5-year or 2+1 EM thank you very much!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gb35 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I know that we have shortage of doctors in general, everywhere in Canada I'm not sure that statement is all that accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goleafsgochris Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I'm not sure that statement is all that accurate. I dont really think its accurate at all lol But to answer the OP's question, IM docs are significantly more in demand than EM docs. Once you get into IM subspecialties, I dont really know, likely depends on the subspecialty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 GIM by far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moo Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 IM is very heterogeneous. GIM is in short supply in most centers. But it would be a mistake to say all subspecialties of IM are in short supply. It's very hard to get a job at a major center (like Vancouver) if "all" you have is a gastroenterology fellowship for instance. Most groups like you to do additional training before they will take you on. Of course, for non-procedural based subspecialties, you can always just set up a private practice and get your name out there (things like endocrine for instance), but for any procedural based subspecialty, you need to work with a group with a hospital affiliation, so you can't just set up a private practice (unless all you do is non hospital-based stuff). Someone correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I hear usually from my IM colleagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Neph is also very hard to get a job in right now. It's true there is a physician shortage in Canada, the problem is because of govt. funding and other issues, there may not any jobs to fill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moo Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Neph is also very hard to get a job in right now. It's true there is a physician shortage in Canada, the problem is because of govt. funding and other issues, there may not any jobs to fill. I agree with that. My friend who is about to finish fellowship (albeit in peds nephro) in the US at a top center (UCSF) tells me there are no openings on the west coast anywhere, aside from a non-academic center in Portland, and he hasn't even been able to secure an interview there. I'm sure things are similar, if not worse in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Posted October 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Plus, a subspecialty fellowship trained IM doc can practice GIM anywhere, but the same can't be said for vice versa. wow really!? I never heard of that... can someone confirme me that? I mean, in certain provinces or rural/urban settings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardiomegaly Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Some CTU preceptors have subspecialty fellowships. I think what they mean by GIM is running a GIM CTU, not doing GIM clinics etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheech10 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 No reason why a IM subspecialty doc can't do GIM clinics, CTU, or any other GIM task. That's what the exam after PGY-4 certifies you for. Agree with Brooksbane, the major problem is maldistribution, although for some specialities, positions are hard to come by anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 How does it work if you do a fellowship instead of a 4th GIM year? I'm assuming you just write the royal college exams and upon passing you can work as a general internist? Does this open up doors for moonlighting during your 5th year / 2nd fellowship year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigM Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 How does it work if you do a fellowship instead of a 4th GIM year? I'm assuming you just write the royal college exams and upon passing you can work as a general internist? Does this open up doors for moonlighting during your 5th year / 2nd fellowship year? You can moonlight in GIM while completing your R5 subspeciality. I met someone doing this during their nephrology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK81 Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 The job market for IM subspecialties are actually sparse. You will have a very difficult time landing a staff job in critical care or nephrology for instance. Most gastro and cardio staff have have done 2-3 fellowships in urban centres before they get a staff job. Cardiology is becoming saturated. The PCI boom is over and everyone is fighting for cath time. Same for scoping time for gastro. GIM is open and yes, you can always do GIM after doing a fellowship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome88 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 If I had to pick, I'd go for either a subspecialty fellowship in GI or cards (both in demand, both very lucrative, can do GIM in the meantime if you can't find work) or EM (very, very flexible) Sorry but I totally disagree. GI and Cards are NOT in high demand, in fact there aren't any jobs available in Cards at the moment. Do not do Cards and expect to have a job ready by the time you graduate. I got this information from practicing Cardiologists, some are now moving to the States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest copacetic Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 this applies to alot of the subspecialties in medicine and surgery. the centralized nature of our health care system means that even though there is a medical need for alot of these jobs, there are paradoxically no jobs available because of other factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Posted October 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 I have a couple friends that are trying to match for IM/EM we don't have IM+EM combined program here in Canada, do we Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughboy Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 we don't have IM+EM combined program here in Canada, do we No we don't, nor are EM docs barred from doing critical care in Canada. 49erfan's entire post is a cut and paste from an 8-year-old SDN post (link below, second post down by pinbor1) because 49ersfan is a dumbass spammer. Moderators? pb (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-59241.html ) I have a couple friends that are trying to match for IM/EM. I had thought about myself, but decided just to do EM. IM/EM is great if you want to do academics, the biggest con that you will here is that you will ultimately pick one or the other and that it is 5 yrs. I don't think that is necessarily bad, you just have to decide what you want to do. I felt it would be beneficial if you were interested in critical care medicine given that you can't sit for the boards if you are EM, but you can if you are IM. The main reason I looked into it was my interest in international medicine. Good IM and EM knowledge allows you to do some longterm work in foreign countries, but I ultimately decided that if I was going to do any long term work, it was going to be in improving emergency medical services, starting or teaching at and EM residency, or through public health/advocacy. All these things did not require strong IM knowledge, I too liked IM a lot, but I found that internal medicine was not what I wanted to do after doing my sub-I after having done an EM rotation. The biggest advice I can give you is to apply to EM and/or IM programs in addition to the combined program, b/c I've met some great residents that had to scramble into less than ideal IM programs b/c they only ranked IM/EM programs. Good luck, you'll have time to figure out what you want to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnface Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 wow really!? I never heard of that... can someone confirme me that? I mean, in certain provinces or rural/urban settings? Correct me someone if I'm wrong, but I heard starting this year GIM is converted to a 5-year program from its current 4-year. Furthermore, IM subspecialists accredited from this year forward will no longer be eligible to practice GIM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheech10 Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 No, the old 3+1 year track is still available, and allows you to practice IM and call yourself an "internist". All they've done is add a new 3+2 year track which will allow you to call yourself a "specialist in general internal medicine". There's a FAQ on the Royal College website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloh Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 I don't know about that unless it changed in the last 12 months last minute. The PD in edmonton made it very clearly that its 5 years only and that you'd apply to do those last 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnface Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 No, the old 3+1 year track is still available, and allows you to practice IM and call yourself an "internist". All they've done is add a new 3+2 year track which will allow you to call yourself a "specialist in general internal medicine". There's a FAQ on the Royal College website. Thanks for posting this document. I wasn't aware that there will now be a distinction between "Internist" and "General Internist". But seriously, what the heck is the difference? this is all very confusing to me. Why would someone do a 3+2 when they could just do a 3+1? On the other hand, why would someone hire a 3+1 when they could instead hire a 3+2? I surmise a few keeners will do 3+2 in GIM, beat out a bunch of 3+1s for jobs, and cause everyone who wants to do GIM to pursue the 3+2 out of fear of joblessness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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