Difference between being cut-throat and playing dirty?

[IPlayGamesNude]

Background: I'm a first year university student in the faculty of science, and obviously will be aiming for med/dent/pharm just like the other 12098112356 science students in the world.

 

I try to be as non cut-throat as possible but I'm getting really tired of people keeping everything a secret; whether it's volunteering, sources for past exams, or information. All I want is a f****** conversation but it's impossible when people are so determined not to give any bits of information to others.

 

So what would be the difference between those kinds of people, who are actually extremely hypocritical, and those who are competitive to the point where they'll purposely tell them wrong information, 'accidentally' cause a sprained ankle by putting their foot under the victims' whilst walking to class, and use other methods to reduce the competition or hinder the competitors any way possible?

 

*One case of hypocrisy would be Y asking X "What did they ask during the interview?" and when Z asks Y, Y doesn't tell Z anything.

[thehumanmacbook]

As long as it's not a long-term occurance with a cooperative effort, the payoff matrix dictates that always it's better to defect.

 

You'll meet plenty of various altruistic individuals here on the forum if you're looking for information of that kind. Other than that, you do need an edge if you're looking to get in. It'll become survival of the fittest, but don't let it get to you - find friends who aren't looking to get in or share common activities!

[IPlayGamesNude]

find friends who aren't looking to get in or share common activities!

 

xD Yeah. I know this one person who is always with her cousin. I knew her before but not her cousin. She's in general science, and her cousin is in engineering and I've become closer to him solely on the fact that we're not competitors >.<

 

I don't know when I'll snap and start being an ass though

[Leon]

I used to be very open and not hold back anything. And then the very people I helped ended up either intentionally trying to screw me over or didn't help me when I needed it.

 

My priorities have changed.

[Lactic Folly]

Think you described it already: the difference between withholding information/assistance and purposely giving bad information (active sabotage). Lesson is to be as self-sufficient as possible. If you need help, go to trusted sources (profs, TAs), or less biased resources such as the collective wisdom of this forum.

[IamIDP]

I used to be very open and not hold back anything. And then the very people I helped ended up either intentionally trying to screw me over or didn't help me when I needed it.

 

My priorities have changed.

 

lol that sucks

 

I think you should be ethical, don't try screwing up people. Screwing up a few people won't do anything especially when theres "12098112356" people applying...

Tbh what goes around comes around.

[IPlayGamesNude]

lol that sucks

 

I think you should be ethical, don't try screwing up people. Screwing up a few people won't do anything especially when theres "12098112356" people applying...

Tbh what goes around comes around.

 

I assume those people don't care as screwing a few people will at least lessen the competition by a couple of people.

[psychoswim]

Yeah.. I don't see the point in trying to screw other people over. One day you'll be glad there are others around you to help you, and honestly I find that most people are really helpful once in med school so why not start right away? I'm not saying to do the work for others, but worst case just ignore them.

[anon1234]

well i would try and find a group of friends who don't play dirty and stick with them like glue. i am not at all a super social person, but i had a close group of friends in undergrad who helped me get through my degree. and i went to UTSG which is supposed to be central hub of premeds who are very competitive. i also was treated quite badly initially by hostile people, but i met some very nice people also who were willing to share and study together etc. and in the end we all benefitted. in fact you will notice it's people who mostly get along with others and share stuff that make it to professional programs and the ones who are always hiding stuff and trying to be secretive end up paying for it. actual smartness is to find the right people and help yourself by helping them

[IamIDP]

well i would try and find a group of friends who don't play dirty and stick with them like glue. i am not at all a super social person, but i had a close group of friends in undergrad who helped me get through my degree. and i went to UTSG which is supposed to be central hub of premeds who are very competitive. i also was treated quite badly initially by hostile people, but i met some very nice people also who were willing to share and study together etc. and in the end we all benefitted. in fact you will notice it's people who mostly get along with others and share stuff that make it to professional programs and the ones who are always hiding stuff and trying to be secretive end up paying for it. actual smartness is to find the right people and help yourself by helping them

 

Your are absolutely right. If you intend to get into the medical field and are screwing people to begin with, you will most definitely not going to be the best doctor and nor will you be helping people.

 

If you truly value the medical field and want to help humanity and the people around you, you should at least try helping your peers that are in need instead of messing up with their education. Just remember, if your messing with someone's education, your messing with their future.

[Guest Transparent]

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[Clever]

Background: I'm a first year university student in the faculty of science, and obviously will be aiming for med/dent/pharm just like the other 12098112356 science students in the world.

 

I try to be as non cut-throat as possible but I'm getting really tired of people keeping everything a secret; whether it's volunteering, sources for past exams, or information. All I want is a f****** conversation but it's impossible when people are so determined not to give any bits of information to others.

 

So what would be the difference between those kinds of people, who are actually extremely hypocritical, and those who are competitive to the point where they'll purposely tell them wrong information, 'accidentally' cause a sprained ankle by putting their foot under the victims' whilst walking to class, and use other methods to reduce the competition or hinder the competitors any way possible?

 

*One case of hypocrisy would be Y asking X "What did they ask during the interview?" and when Z asks Y, Y doesn't tell Z anything.

 

I doubt 1/6th of the world's population are considered "Science students"

You want a conversation? Have one with an arts student, they're pretty cool.

Seriously.. make like an eskimo and chill. You will encounter many people like this, but crying about it wont make anything better.

[tdunks]

I am at UTSC and have been helping everyone i meet and either directing them here or helping them with class work. In the end it only benefits me, and if they end up being a better applicant and getting in when I do not, good on them.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[repede]

More often than not, people who openly claim to be premeds are to be avoided until you observe otherwise.

 

This place (PM101) is generally quite good but you'll also want to be a bit careful here, too. According to a talk by Dr. Ian Walker (admissions director at University of Calgary), there are some rumours here that are nothing more than rumours.

[rmorelan]

lol that sucks

 

I think you should be ethical, don't try screwing up people. Screwing up a few people won't do anything especially when theres "12098112356" people applying...

 

That was generally my logic - It just wastes a lot of energy plotting etc and for what? So a few other people might not be able to be as competitive as they could be?

[medaholic]

General Rules to being a Premed

• Don't act like a premed - you're a student first and foremost, do well in all your studies, try to enjoy university/college
  
• Don't actively sabotage/harm/hurt/screw others, you wouldn't want others doing that to you
  
• Keep to yourself - don't go pestering people asking what grades they got, don't go advertising your marks, avoid the pre-med club at all costs
  
• In regards to "friends", tit-for-tat is a good strategy. Always cooperate unless provoked, then retaliate... or in layman terms, only help those who are willing to help you
  

[ubcMDhopeful]

I used to be very open and not hold back anything. And then the very people I helped ended up either intentionally trying to screw me over or didn't help me when I needed it.

 

My priorities have changed.

 

A really horrible thing happened to me that made me adopt this.

 

I told this "friend" once that I was applying to this research job and tell her who the PI was, the next day she applies to the same PI....

[vanillabear]

A really horrible thing happened to me that made me adopt this.

 

I told this "friend" once that I was applying to this research job and tell her who the PI was, the next day she applies to the same PI....

 

hahah this has happened to me... but i still beat them out ... and I let them know too

[Leon]

I am at UTSC and have been helping everyone i meet and either directing them here or helping them with class work. In the end it only benefits me, and if they end up being a better applicant and getting in when I do not, good on them.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Just wait for the Caesar moment, lol. Happened to me at UTSC

 

[rmorelan]

Its definitely the program I'm in but everyone helps everyone else. For example if I learn about a hint for the test or come across a really tricky question, I make sure I tell all my friends. If someone comes across past tests that no one else has they'll share it. If someone wrote really good notes, they'll share.

 

At the end it'll only benefit you. My friends and I have collaborated on 3 assignments, all of which I have scored a 100% on. I wouldn't have been able to do it without their help. So you get what you give.

 

However different programs/schools have different environments so I don't think there's one piece of advice applicable to everyone.

 

Yeah my program was similar - or at least a core group of us in it were. It does help if the program doesn't bell curve or rank people like some schools do. It was quite possible for a group like that to do very well and everyone on our team that wanted med actually got it by the end.

[TheBoss]

As long as other premeds are being cutthroat, finding a small group of trustworthy and cooperative friends is probably a good idea. While everyone else is busy sabotaging each other, you and your few buddies can help each come out ahead of the damaged masses.

[apache]

just take some weird major like environmental conservation, earth and atmospheric science, business or sociology, no one cares if you want to go to med school and people are a lot more chill... when i would venture out of my psych classes into **** like immunology i was surprised how crazily competitive people were, half the people in my psych classes just didn't even show up

 

As long as other premeds are being cutthroat, finding a small group of trustworthy and cooperative friends is probably a good idea. While everyone else is busy sabotaging each other, you and your few buddies can help each come out ahead of the damaged masses.

[IPlayGamesNude]

Just avoid premeds and do not socialize with anyone from any of your premed classes. Premeds are lame and will only stress you out. But all the stupid BS they ramble on about ad nauseum can't really do much against A+s DOWN THE BOARD - EAT THAT MOTHAFxxxERS!

 

I hung with arts and eng students primarily. Had fun, went clubbing three times a week, and just lived it up. But I worked as hard as I played, and had an average that annoying premeds just couldn't possibly beat.

 

So just do your own thing. Ignore them.

 

I think this is probably the best way I talked to my family about it and they said that sabotaging others' futures by ruthless means is unacceptable. I just wish I could find a good group of people that I can study with without being competitive. And the people that I go to the library with studies till 3-4 am and I feel pressured that I should be doing the same to keep up with them >.>

[future_doc]

ALL the advice you received here is terrific and hit the nail on the head, including that of my amazing mentor, Lactic Folly, to be as self-sufficient as possible.

 

Throughout undergrad, I did not get close to any students, rather to colleagues sharing my ECs and volunteering, where as team mmebers we were not competing but sharing our efforts collaboratively for the common goal.

 

There are many douchebags out there to give misinformation, to tear out pages from vital books at the library. etc. I simply didn't get, involved with fellow students and avoided any potential drama or harm. Being a loner worked for me - it allowed me to treat my studies professionally, like a job that I was excited about. I achieved the objective and that what was important.

 

Not being the brightest lightbulb, I had to work incredibly hard year after year and the cost was all my prior friendships b/c those not going for med partied always and I ultimately discovered they swere not true friends just party animals, so I consider this a benefit.

 

Just focus on your studies as a priority always, don't be distracted by b.s. such as you describe and don't become vulnerable to it and stick to the plan. Somewhere along the academic journey you will bruise yourself, no big deal, wipe of the blood:p and carry on. We have all dealt with squirmishs big and small, it is called life. Good luck!

[future_doc]

I just wish I could find a good group of people that I can study with without being competitive. And the people that I go to the library with studies till 3-4 am and I feel pressured that I should be doing the same to keep up with them >.>

 

If you can find them - great, if not, no sweat. And stay away from that library, find one out of your circle, e.g. a library for students of Islamic studies at your university to which you have access, but your mainstream fellow students never heard of it. And then study at your own pace, not influenced inappropriately by others as you play head games with yourself.

 

Your only real competition is yourself! You want to be the best of which you are capable, with no regrets. Develop your ownindependent study habits that work for you, if need be, using the counselling service. For sure, do not ever be influenced by what others do or claim to do. You control your own destiny and you alone are accountable and responsible for the outcome.