Cost analysis of Carib/Ireland/UK?

[leviathan]

Tuition alone at Australian schools is insane. Can you really work on a STUDENT visa? And you can work at any university, but who wants to work 20 hours/week while in medical school?

[SooSk]

Also regarding internships, it defers from state to state... I actually went to a presentation by Sydney's dean and he acknowledged that most international students dont get internship in NewSouthWales.

you could look at other resources as well:

 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/higher-education/medical-internship-shortage-forces-ama-crisis-summit/story-e6frgcjx-1225931074696

 

http://ama.com.au/node/5996

[canuck]

Im going to UWS med in Sydney next year. My tutuition is $40,000/year. Its a 5 year undergrad program.

Melbourne uni has the highest tuition at $66K per year. Apart from Melbourne all other schools have similar costs

 

Ireland tuitions are the same 31,000Euros/year ($41,000) at NUI and TCD in Ireland. All 5 year programs as well.

 

US schools cost 45,000 -50,000 per year as well.

 

All these school are roughly the same in the end. Quality education is gonna cost you the same anywhere you go.

[BoyInTheBubble]

Tuition alone at Australian schools is insane. Can you really work on a STUDENT visa? And you can work at any university, but who wants to work 20 hours/week while in medical school?

 

Yes.

 

You are allowed to work up to 20 hours a week while school is on during terms.

 

You can work as many hours a week as you want during non-term weeks.

 

With minimum wage near 20 dollars an hour, that can add up quickly! You won't cover all your costs, but you can pay rent/etc.

[BoyInTheBubble]

Also regarding internships, it defers from state to state... I actually went to a presentation by Sydney's dean and he acknowledged that most international students dont get internship in NewSouthWales.

you could look at other resources as well:

 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/higher-education/medical-internship-shortage-forces-ama-crisis-summit/story-e6frgcjx-1225931074696

 

http://ama.com.au/node/5996

 

You're quoting a newspaper article from sept 2010 that is merely opinion. The second link didn't work for me.

 

The intern limits are based off government funding for salaries not because hospitals are "full". Further, every student that wanted one, including internationals, got an internship spot in Australia this year. In December there were still a handful of leftover spots.

[SooSk]

The second link is for Australian medical association, it works for me.

And I guess I just have to take you for your word that everybody matched this year, even though that goes against all the other stuff I've heard.

 

Regarding the Cost of education: Yes the cost are high and yes they have good quality, but it's just stupid to compare it to US because; US schools are LCME accredited that means Canadians that attend those schools will not be considered IMG.

 

and no, Their tuition costs are not all the same:

 

-Melbourne and Sydney were more than 61 - 63K $ AUD (last year), this year it would be around 65K $ AUD = 70K $ Can

-Most others are 55K $ AUD = 60K $ Can

-Wollgong and Flinders are 47K AUD = 55K $ Can

 

-Ireland = 50K $ Can

-RCSI = 65K $ Can (but matching from RCSI is really easy,twice to neurosurgery in the past 3 years)

 

-Most US schools = 45K $ can ( but it's LCME accredited, you are not considered IMG)

 

-Also some Caribbean schools are really good and they cost same as US.

 

-BEST CHEAP OPTION IS: Jagiellonian medical college. & US

 

Also cost of living greatly differs, with Melbourne and sydney being the highest. SO it's not like that Melbourne is 66K AUD and the rest are the same.

[canuck]

Yeah cost of living in Aus is pricey, but last time I heard Ireland wasnt dirt cheap to

live in. At the end of it all, your gonna pay the same in Ireland as in Aus.

 

Jagellonian is best cost wise your right, but have fun getting any electives in Canada from there. Most Canadian schools only accept students from UK, Aus, South Africa and US schools.

 

 

 

QUOTE=SooSk;678197]The second link is for Australian medical association, it works for me.

And I guess I just have to take you for your word that everybody matched this year, even though that goes against all the other stuff I've heard.

 

Regarding the Cost of education: Yes the cost are high and yes they have good quality, but it's just stupid to compare it to US because; US schools are LCME accredited that means Canadians that attend those schools will not be considered IMG.

 

and no, Their tuition costs are not all the same:

 

-Melbourne and Sydney were more than 61 - 63K $ AUD (last year), this year it would be around 65K $ AUD = 70K $ Can

-Most others are 55K $ AUD = 60K $ Can

-Wollgong and Flinders are 47K AUD = 55K $ Can

 

-Ireland = 50K $ Can

-RCSI = 65K $ Can (but matching from RCSI is really easy,twice to neurosurgery in the past 3 years)

 

-Most US schools = 45K $ can ( but it's LCME accredited, you are not considered IMG)

 

-Also some Caribbean schools are really good and they cost same as US.

 

-BEST CHEAP OPTION IS: Jagiellonian medical college. & US

 

Also cost of living greatly differs, with Melbourne and sydney being the highest. SO it's not like that Melbourne is 66K AUD and the rest are the same.

[leviathan]

Yes.

 

You are allowed to work up to 20 hours a week while school is on during terms.

 

You can work as many hours a week as you want during non-term weeks.

 

With minimum wage near 20 dollars an hour, that can add up quickly! You won't cover all your costs, but you can pay rent/etc.

 

Interesting. Again though, working during medical school would be a very poor decision in most cases.

[SooSk]

Interesting. Again though, working during medical school would be a very poor decision in most cases.

 

I agree, and the minium wage is 15$ per hour not 20$

[U of T undergrad]

review http://www.lehrermed.com financial aid, it's pretty cheap 12000 for first year..

this is a polish med school

[setto]

Although residency may appear abysmal in North America for people going over seas, what about residencies elsewhere in the world?

 

For example, how do people studying in Ireland match in Ireland? (provided they can get that hands on an EU passport)

 

What about Ireland - Australia, or Australia - Ireland or Ireland-UK etc. ?

 

Just seems to me that if you really want to be a doctor, it doesn't really matter where you do it (provided you agree with their medical system).

[Red1990]

Flinders SOM: 45,000. 4 year undergraduate degree after a bachelors.

Melbourne and Sydney are the most expensive @ 60000 AUD each, probably because of fairly stunning reputations. Local full-fee students at Melbourne pay the same amount as internationals.

 

The Sydney dean's comment someone was referring to: "most international students don't get internships in New South Wales" means precisely that. They went to other states like South Australia for an internship.

Melbourne provides a decent example: {73% of International Melbourne grads accepted internships in Victoria, a significant number go to other states for PGT}

My understanding is that the 'internationals not getting internship' issue was raised when '50 international students didn't get an internship' referred to the first round where local students are allowed to hold multiple spots. From what I keep hearing, they all got spots in the following round(s).

 

International graduates from Australian schools can complete post graduate training in New Zealand or Singapore.

Fellows of the Royal Australian college of General Practitioners (if you seek PG training in general practice) can move back to Canada as family docs without writing postgraduate exams (they would be licensed by the CFPC). Fellow of a specialty college can do the same after writing an exam.

 

Manitoba & Quebec have a competitive match (meaning that IMGs can apply anywhere after MCCs)

 

It's not always a good idea to study medicine a broad and I'm not trying to paint a rosy image, but it's not always a bad one either.

 

tc

[jf1987]

Although residency may appear abysmal in North America for people going over seas, what about residencies elsewhere in the world?

 

For example, how do people studying in Ireland match in Ireland? (provided they can get that hands on an EU passport)

 

What about Ireland - Australia, or Australia - Ireland or Ireland-UK etc. ?

 

Just seems to me that if you really want to be a doctor, it doesn't really matter where you do it (provided you agree with their medical system).

 

If you have a EU passport and graduate from an Irish school you are guaranteed a residency spot in Ireland. Irish grads also tend to match better back to North America than Australian grads.

[canuck]

If you have a EU passport and graduate from an Irish school you are guaranteed a residency spot in Ireland. Irish grads also tend to match better back to North America than Australian grads.

 

You sure about that? Looking at the stats it looks like Aussie grads did pretty good. 25 out of 46 matched last year. 54%..Thats not bad for IMGs.

 

Here's the link http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2011R1_MatchResults/43_IMGs%20by%20Region_1stand2nd%20Iteration_en.pdf

[jf1987]

You sure about that? Looking at the stats it looks like Aussie grads did pretty good. 25 out of 46 matched last year. 54%..Thats not bad for IMGs.

 

Here's the link http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2011R1_MatchResults/43_IMGs%20by%20Region_1stand2nd%20Iteration_en.pdf

 

I am not certain about it, to be honest. Its just the impression I have gotten from various sources.

[Robin Hood]

You sure about that? Looking at the stats it looks like Aussie grads did pretty good. 25 out of 46 matched last year. 54%..Thats not bad for IMGs.

 

Here's the link http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2011R1_MatchResults/43_IMGs%20by%20Region_1stand2nd%20Iteration_en.pdf

 

46 is too low, where are the other Canadians. There are more than 46 Canadians in Oz.

[leviathan]

46 is too low, where are the other Canadians. There are more than 46 Canadians in Oz.

CaRMS estimates about 550, although 206 responded to their survey which would put applicants at about 50/year.

[jf1987]

CaRMS estimates about 550, although 206 responded to their survey which would put applicants at about 50/year.

 

I guess if you include those who stay as interns or go to the US it might add up... Although, how does CaRMS come up with their estimate and how accurate is it vs. the number that responded to the survey.

[canuck]

46 is too low, where are the other Canadians. There are more than 46 Canadians in Oz.

 

That's exactly how many Aussie grads applied to the Carms match last year. The rest are either interns in Aus or have matched in the US. Many haven't graduated yet and are still in school.

[Robin Hood]

That's exactly how many Aussie grads applied to the Carms match last year. The rest are either interns in Aus or have matched in the US. Many haven't graduated yet and are still in school.

 

Is there an official figure about match rates for the US? Getting a 300k debt and ruining your chances of ever practicing is not something to be played with. Not everybody would like to be trapped on the other side of the world, far from their families. Also, how easy is it to aquire Australian citizenship for those who did med school there?

[canuck]

Is there an official figure about match rates for the US? Getting a 300k debt and ruining your chances of ever practicing is not something to be played with. Not everybody would like to be trapped on the other side of the world, far from their families. Also, how easy is it to aquire Australian citizenship for those who did med school there?

 

Here are the stats for the US 2011 match. The average match rate is about 41% for Non US IMGs (Table 6 page 12). http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2011.pdf

 

Also here are the match rates by specialty and state. http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsbystate2011.pdf

 

 

And if an international student gets an internship in Australia upon completion of the program, they can apply for a permanent residency status with ease.

Getting an internship in the larger hospitals in major cities is very tough, but if one is willing to go to a rural area then its not hard at all to get. After all an internship is only 1 year long, after that you're fully registered and can apply to any specialty program you want, in any city you choose.

[canuck]

And also these stats clump all the Non US IMG's together, and Im pretty sure that Aussie, Irish, UK, Carib grads do better than applicants form China, India and all other non-english speaking countries.

[Robin Hood]

And also these stats clump all the Non US IMG's together, and Im pretty sure that Aussie, Irish, UK, Carib grads do better than applicants form China, India and all other non-english speaking countries.

 

But you can't actually know without real numbers. Also, residency spots are becoming more competitive in the US. If Australia/Ireland/big 4 Caribbean have a residency match rate of 80%+, then it's fine, but if it's 50-60%, better not go there (unless you can become a permanenet resident of these countries).

[Robin Hood]

Here are the stats for the US 2011 match. The average match rate is about 41% for Non US IMGs (Table 6 page 12). http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2011.pdf

 

Also here are the match rates by specialty and state. http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsbystate2011.pdf

 

 

And if an international student gets an internship in Australia upon completion of the program, they can apply for a permanent residency status with ease.

Getting an internship in the larger hospitals in major cities is very tough, but if one is willing to go to a rural area then its not hard at all to get. After all an internship is only 1 year long, after that you're fully registered and can apply to any specialty program you want, in any city you choose.

 

But you will most likely be locked in Australia and can't get back to Canada (unless you do FM, because it's recognized by the CFPC I think).

[canuck]

But you can't actually know without real numbers. Also, residency spots are becoming more competitive in the US. If Australia/Ireland/big 4 Caribbean have a residency match rate of 80%+, then it's fine, but if it's 50-60%, better not go there (unless you can become a permanenet resident of these countries).

 

True, but if you were a program director would you rather chose an applicant that graduated from an English speaking med school in Aus,UK, Carib etc. or someone who graduated from Chinese or Indian school. The Carms link I posted states the differences. So Im guessing the US programs would be very similar in their selections.

 

50% to 60% is not bad and Im willing to take the risk.