Cost analysis of Carib/Ireland/UK?

[Robin Hood]

True, but if you were a program director would you rather chose an applicant that graduated from an English speaking med school in Aus,UK, Carib etc. or someone who graduated from Chinese or Indian school. The Carms link I posted states the differences. So Im guessing the US programs would be very similar in their selections.

 

50% to 60% is not bad and Im willing to take the risk.

 

I will prefer the Australian/Irish/British/Caribbean grad to a Chinese/Indian grad, but not to an North American grad, especially an American one.

Also, isn't one of the reasons why PDs are relucant to admit people from countries far away (even developped ones) is because you won't experience the same diseases in these areas?

[Robin Hood]

True, but if you were a program director would you rather chose an applicant that graduated from an English speaking med school in Aus,UK, Carib etc. or someone who graduated from Chinese or Indian school. The Carms link I posted states the differences. So Im guessing the US programs would be very similar in their selections.

 

50% to 60% is not bad and Im willing to take the risk.

 

What about having 300k in debt and nearly destroying your chances of coming bac to Canada (there's the option of redoing your MD in North America, but it will be super competitive? (Unless you don't mind being locked in Oz).

[canuck]

What about having 300k in debt and nearly destroying your chances of coming bac to Canada (there's the option of redoing your MD in North America, but it will be super competitive? (Unless you don't mind being locked in Oz).

 

Well I wouldn't be destroying my chances at all. If I stay in Oz and do my internship, Ill be able to come back to Canada because CFPC recognizes their FM training.

If I go to the US and do FM residency, Ill be able to come back and practice without issue because US FM training is longer and also recognized here.

And of course Ill have a 50/50 chance of matching in Canada straight away. So I dont see this as a bad decision at all....and yes I am aware of the risks but Im willing to take this route.

 

The costs associated are high but its a very small chunk of the potential income in the future.

[canuck]

What about having 300k in debt and nearly destroying your chances of coming bac to Canada (there's the option of redoing your MD in North America, but it will be super competitive? (Unless you don't mind being locked in Oz).

 

I dont see it as being locked anywhere. Australia is a beautiful country and its very similar to Canada. The income potential in Aus is alot higher as well and the workload is much less (35hrs/week is considered full time). I wouldnt be bummed out at all If I had to stay and practice there.

Id be alot more stressed if I were going to Poland for med school or one of the other popular English programs in Eastern Europe.

[leviathan]

But what are the odds of getting an internship in Australia? Are there hard statistics anywhere to prove it? If you have a basic guarantee of post-graduate training in Australia, then med school in Australia would be a great option.

[Robin Hood]

But what are the odds of getting an internship in Australia? Are there hard statistics anywhere to prove it? If you have a basic guarantee of post-graduate training in Australia, then med school in Australia would be a great option.

 

Can't people in Saba have access to post-grad training in the Netherlands? Or if you don't match in North America, you will just never practice medicine?

[Robin Hood]

I dont see it as being locked anywhere. Australia is a beautiful country and its very similar to Canada. The income potential in Aus is alot higher as well and the workload is much less (35hrs/week is considered full time). I wouldnt be bummed out at all If I had to stay and practice there.

Id be alot more stressed if I were going to Poland for med school or one of the other popular English programs in Eastern Europe.

 

Yes, I know Australia is like Canada, but it's too far away, it's maybe Ok for you, but not everybody can live that far from their families (and not everybody wants FM).

[canuck]

But what are the odds of getting an internship in Australia? Are there hard statistics anywhere to prove it? If you have a basic guarantee of post-graduate training in Australia, then med school in Australia would be a great option.

 

Yeah there's no stats on how many internationals get internships. But so far what I've heard is that every international who wanted a spot got one in NSW in 2011. I also personally spoke to a dean of a Med school in QLD and he said the same thing. But of course there's no numbers to prove this and you never know how things will be in a few years.

[leviathan]

Can't people in Saba have access to post-grad training in the Netherlands? Or if you don't match in North America, you will just never practice medicine?

That's a good question, I'm not sure. Saba's med school recently received accreditation by the Netherlands when they became a part of the country last year, so it's possible you could get residency over there. You'd probably have to speak Dutch though and/or be an EU citizen.

[Red1990]

The Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada recognises PGY training from certain jurisdictions abroad. All Australian specialty colleges are recognised according to that category. That means you can come back to Canada after having your training assessed and taking the RCPSC's corresponding examination.

 

The College of Family Physicians of Canada recognises PGY training from Australia in GP without the need for an examination.

 

That being said, I'm not so sure why you'd want to come back after living for 7+ years in Oz (you would've made friends and possibly family). You can always visit for vacation. Higher salaries, nicer weather, etc. might also play in.

 

As for why 25/46 Canadians matched in CaRMS, it's because only 46 chose to apply to carms. The rest decided to either stay in Australia or go to the US. Not sure how this will play out in a couple of years with the Queensland cohort graduating.

 

Disclaimer: Posts here are for your general knowledge. If you plan on going abroad you should be doing a lot more research than Premed101/SDN/ValueMD. And most of the time the best decision will be to roll the dice again in Canada.

[canuck]

The Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada recognises PGY training from certain jurisdictions abroad. All Australian specialty colleges are recognised according to that category. That means you can come back to Canada after having your training assessed and taking the RCPSC's corresponding examination.

 

The College of Family Physicians of Canada recognises PGY training from Australia in GP without the need for an examination.

 

That being said, I'm not so sure why you'd want to come back after living for 7+ years in Oz (you would've made friends and possibly family). You can always visit for vacation. Higher salaries, nicer weather, etc. might also play in.

 

As for why 25/46 Canadians matched in CaRMS, it's because only 46 chose to apply to carms. The rest decided to either stay in Australia or go to the US. Not sure how this will play out in a couple of years with the Queensland cohort graduating.

 

Disclaimer: Posts here are for your general knowledge. If you plan on going abroad you should be doing a lot more research than Premed101/SDN/ValueMD. And most of the time the best decision will be to roll the dice again in Canada.

 

 

All the reasons you stated above are why I decided to go to Aus for school. Ill possibly have a chance to stay there permanently, or go the US route or do residency in Aus and come back to Canada. All these appealed to me as they're all viable options.

[leijona88]

Anyone know how much residents make in Australia and Ireland? Wondering if it's just enough to live off or whether one could start paying back the debt during rez. I'm an RN so maybe I could work a bit doing that..

 

Also, I'm a dual citizen (Canada/Finland), I read EU citizens are guaranteed a residency in Ireland if they go to med school in Ireland. Does anyone know if this seems pretty solid, or if it's going to change any year? Hopefully they would at least honour it for people who started med school there counting on that

[missmathematics]

Anyone know how much residents make in Australia and Ireland? Wondering if it's just enough to live off or whether one could start paying back the debt during rez. I'm an RN so maybe I could work a bit doing that..

 

Also, I'm a dual citizen (Canada/Finland), I read EU citizens are guaranteed a residency in Ireland if they go to med school in Ireland. Does anyone know if this seems pretty solid, or if it's going to change any year? Hopefully they would at least honour it for people who started med school there counting on that

 

I am in the same position with the dual citizenship. This is actually the reason why I'm applying to Ireland. You can make a lot in Ireland if you work overtime.

 

As for being guaranteed residency, yes, you are considered priority #1 along with other Irish graduates. I think this has been like this for a really long time, I do not foresee any changes to this policy mainly because very few people are in our position, and it really doesn't affect their allocation process. However, they would not "honour it" if you are counting on it.

 

Look at what happened to the poor Australian students!

 

I would say Ireland is a super safe bet though, with the dual citizenship.

[NLengr]

Just out of curiosity, does Ireland have the super long residency (vs. Canada/US) due to very restricted working hours like in the UK?

[leijona88]

I am in the same position with the dual citizenship. This is actually the reason why I'm applying to Ireland. You can make a lot in Ireland if you work overtime.

 

As for being guaranteed residency, yes, you are considered priority #1 along with other Irish graduates. I think this has been like this for a really long time, I do not foresee any changes to this policy mainly because very few people are in our position, and it really doesn't affect their allocation process. However, they would not "honour it" if you are counting on it.

 

Look at what happened to the poor Australian students!

 

I would say Ireland is a super safe bet though, with the dual citizenship.

 

What happened to the Australian students?

 

And just to clarify, when you say you can make a lot in Ireland, are you talking about during residency? Or afterward as an attending (or whatever they call it there)?

[leijona88]

Oh and do you know how hard it is to work in Canada after residency? I'm thinking psych, so that should be relatively easy.. to find a job at least. I've heard that there's projected to be a significant shortage of psychs in Canada

[leviathan]

Oh and do you know how hard it is to work in Canada after residency? I'm thinking psych, so that should be relatively easy.. to find a job at least. I've heard that there's projected to be a significant shortage of psychs in Canada

Shouldn't be too hard once you're done residency. For psych residency there were 83 IMGs applying to psych as their first choice, only 23 matched into it, 1 matched into something else and the rest didn't match anywhere.

[leijona88]

Shouldn't be too hard once you're done residency. For psych residency there were 83 IMGs applying to psych as their first choice, only 23 matched into it, 1 matched into something else and the rest didn't match anywhere.

 

hmm really.. and it sounds like psych is one of the least popular specialties these days. Thanks for the info tho!

[missmathematics]

Yes coming back after residency should not be a problem...but how LONG is this residency going to be? At what point are you considered a "psych doctor"? 4 years? 5 years? 12 years once you reach consultant (if ever)???

 

I'd like to know this and I haven't found an answer yet.

[Dr. Jan Intor]

honestly I think the majority of the carib schools will go out of business within 8 years. After 2016 when the largest cohorts of US grads start entering residency (both an increase in MD and DO) the residency situation in the US will become bleak for IMGs. If you are starting this year u might just beat out the waves of the tsunami but I wouldn't even look at the carib as an option from next year (September 2013) onwards.

[leviathan]

hmm really.. and it sounds like psych is one of the least popular specialties these days. Thanks for the info tho!

 

That's for CaRMS. I'm not sure what the outcomes were for the US match (but u can look on NRMP and find out) but it's probably a lot better since psych is one of the least competitive specialties. I dont know the steps you'd need to take to return to Canada with a US residency in psych.

[Edict]

That is what I was thinking.

 

Am trying to find a med school where my poor friend can go. She is just a tad below getting into a Canadian med school and most internationals are too expensive for her.

 

Surely one can come back to Canada from Poland and get a rural/ remote FM residency.

 

Yeah, if you work hard and do well on the exams you can, but if your friend is just a tad below Canadian med, she should just take a gap year. If her problem is MCAT, retake it, if her problem is GPA, masters, if her problem is ECs, do some ECs.

 

Going abroad will present so many hassles, you will regret not spending that extra time working on your MCAT, GPA or ECs many times before you graduate and apply for residency.