Ireland vs. DOs

[Cottoncandy6827 10]

I am Canadian and I have an acceptance to a DO school and to a Irish Med school. I keep debating back and forth on which path to chose. Anybody been to a similar situation? I made a list of pro and cons for both, I would really appreciate some thoughts on this. Please correct me if my info is wrong. My goal is to match to IM residency (but that could change) and return to Canada preferably for my residency, if I can't then US although I like the Seattle area but I'm not sure how DO friendly the they are.

 

The cost is about the same for Ireland or DO so there's not much difference there.

 

DO

 

Pro

- closer to family and friends in Toronto, Canada (can see them on the weekends since I will be in Michigan)

- can match as AMG rather than IMG

 

 

Con

- will always be known as DO and justify what a DO is to everyone in Canada

- even though I am eligible to match in 1st round, will DO always have a disadvantage than other AMG MDs if we are competing for the same spots (all things such as scores, LOR being equal) esp in Canada?

- will I have have a disadvantage staying in the US for residency due to not having a green card or citizenship?

 

Ireland

 

Pro

- get to experience living in Europe for 4 years (experience/location)

- If I do get a residency, then I never have to answer anymore questions, people consider it a med degree and won't question about my qualifications

 

Con

-IMG, so more risk than DO of not getting a residency back home (although everyone I know from Ireland has been able to match back) but they keep IMG status together so it's hard to know how much Irish grad contribute to the 40% success rate

[boobiman 10]

Some of the DO's that are currently working in Canada use MD besides their names (im guessing because there are no DO schools in this country). I will be attending a DO school so i might be a little biased but I didnt even bother applying to Irish or Caribbean schools. The way residency positions/dynamics are changing in the US (you can read about this every where on SDN), it is way to risky to go overseas. I didnt want to be spending a quarter of a million dollars and still having the risk of not matching.

 

At the end of the day, its your decision, I have a friend who got accepted to one of the Irish school (RCSI i believe) and is desperately wanting to get into a DO school (he interviewed at one last month and is waiting for their decision).

 

Good luck

[Mashmetoo 27]

Some of the DO's that are currently working in Canada use MD besides their names (im guessing because there are no DO schools in this country). I will be attending a DO school so i might be a little biased but I didnt even bother applying to Irish or Caribbean schools. The way residency positions/dynamics are changing in the US (you can read about this every where on SDN), it is way to risky to go overseas. I didnt want to be spending a quarter of a million dollars and still having the risk of not matching.

 

At the end of the day, its your decision, I have a friend who got accepted to one of the Irish school (RCSI i believe) and is desperately wanting to get into a DO school (he interviewed at one last month and is waiting for their decision).

 

Good luck

 

I'm fairly certain that DOs can't legally call themselves MDs in Canada. That would be fraud as you are not a MD.

 

With the rate things are progressing with USDOs, I wouldn't be surprised if these Irish matriculants start kicking themselves in 2-4 years time for not going DO. Just my 2 cents.

[Mashmetoo 27]

I am Canadian and I have an acceptance to a DO school and to a Irish Med school. I keep debating back and forth on which path to chose. Anybody been to a similar situation? I made a list of pro and cons for both, I would really appreciate some thoughts on this. Please correct me if my info is wrong. My goal is to match to IM residency (but that could change) and return to Canada preferably for my residency, if I can't then US although I like the Seattle area but I'm not sure how DO friendly the they are.

 

The cost is about the same for Ireland or DO so there's not much difference there.

 

DO

 

Pro

- closer to family and friends in Toronto, Canada (can see them on the weekends since I will be in Michigan)

- can match as AMG rather than IMG

 

 

Con

- will always be known as DO and justify what a DO is to everyone in Canada

- even though I am eligible to match in 1st round, will DO always have a disadvantage than other AMG MDs if we are competing for the same spots (all things such as scores, LOR being equal) esp in Canada?

- will I have have a disadvantage staying in the US for residency due to not having a green card or citizenship?

 

Ireland

 

Pro

- get to experience living in Europe for 4 years (experience/location)

- If I do get a residency, then I never have to answer anymore questions, people consider it a med degree and won't question about my qualifications

 

Con

-IMG, so more risk than DO of not getting a residency back home (although everyone I know from Ireland has been able to match back) but they keep IMG status together so it's hard to know how much Irish grad contribute to the 40% success rate

 

I would absolutely recommend Ireland for you. As you said, you'll always be known as just a DO, better play it safe and avoid any embarrassing profession related questions when an equal health provider asks you what those 2 funny "DO" letters mean. Much easier for your career if you get the much better recognized international medical degree that's the MBBS, because then, no one in Canada is ever going to ask you the difference between a MBBS and a MD.

[brolias 10]

I'm fairly certain that DOs can't legally call themselves MDs in Canada. That would be fraud as you are not a MD.

 

With the rate things are progressing with USDOs, I wouldn't be surprised if these Irish matriculants start kicking themselves in 2-4 years time for not going DO. Just my 2 cents.

 

Don't they let people with international degrees like MBBS, MBCHB, use MD?

[Mashmetoo 27]

Don't they let people with international degrees like MBBS, MBCHB, use MD?

 

The Indian MBBS clinical doctors at my school all call themselves MDs. MBBS, as a brand, don't care if their members call themselves MDs. But DOs are pretty touchy about it.

 

Something about equivalency, as MBBS and MD are both considered more "western" in medical philosophy, whereas the DO is more eastern in medical philosophy. Not philosopically equivalent, so can't interchangeably call a DO a MD.

[brolias 10]

The Indian MBBS clinical doctors at my school all call themselves MDs. MBBS, as a brand, don't care if their members call themselves MDs. But DOs are pretty touchy about it.

 

Something about equivalency, as MBBS and MD are both considered more "western" in medical philosophy, whereas the DO is more eastern in medical philosophy. Not philosopically equivalent, so can't interchangeably call a DO a MD.

 

Right, but will this philosophical difference be reflected in Canadian medical board law? That's what I'm asking. DOs are still fairly unknown in Canada so I'm not sure if this situation has been seen before. Also, with more and more Canadians going to DO schools, I would assume that most would want to fit in with the MDs and would be ecstatic to use the MD title.

[Mashmetoo 27]

Right, but will this philosophical difference be reflected in Canadian medical board law? That's what I'm asking. DOs are still fairly unknown in Canada so I'm not sure if this situation has been seen before. Also, with more and more Canadians going to DO schools, I would assume that most would want to fit in with the MDs and would be ecstatic to use the MD title.

 

You bring up a good point. I know that in the US, there's this faction that want to rename the DO title to a MD, or some kind of MDO, or MD/DO, MD-DO, but in Canada, I've not seen any USDO call themselves a MD. Their title is always DO.

 

I would be very careful as a DO trying to "change" one's name to a MD in any kind of official capacity, unless you were around in the 60s in California, because I know that the DO professional is very proud and "jealous" in the US regarding title preservation. People are always watching, and sooner or later, they'll find out, and there'll probably be consequences.

[brolias 10]

You bring up a good point. I know that in the US, there's this faction that want to rename the DO title to a MD, or some kind of MDO, or MD/DO, MD-DO, but in Canada, I've not seen any USDO call themselves a MD. Their title is always DO.

 

I would be very careful as a DO trying to "change" one's name to a MD in any kind of official capacity, unless you were around in the 60s in California, because I know that the DO professional is very proud and "jealous" in the US regarding title preservation. People are always watching, and sooner or later, they'll find out, and there'll probably be consequences.

 

Yes, this is something I've never been able to understand. To each their own, however. In BC, if you look up a physician with a DO degree, it would say the following in the online directory: D.O. - 2006 - Midwestern (United States) for your degree.

[brolias 10]

We can consider ourselves pioneers, more or less, of osteopathic medicine in Canada. It will be interesting to see where we take this. Will we fight to be unique and try to stand out from the MD paradigm, much like our American counterparts? Or will we try to fit in as best as we can, and try to emphasize similarities between DO and MD?

[Mashmetoo 27]

We can consider ourselves pioneers, more or less, of osteopathic medicine in Canada. It will be interesting to see where we take this. Will we fight to be unique and try to stand out from the MD paradigm, much like our American counterparts? Or will we try to fit in as best as we can, and try to emphasize similarities between DO and MD?

 

Regardless of what path we choose, it'll be one hell of a journey

[Slashsev01 10]

id DO DO..lol

 

first and foremost not everyone that gets accepted to international gets accepted to DO (esp ireland...which is probably one of the worst)---

 

I have been a big proponent of carribean medical schools over EU ones...sorry..they dont make sense if your goal is comming back to N. america

 

at least the islands are tailered torward an american education system.

 

Last...having read nothing from this post

 

i believe the face of DO is going to change in an aggressive way..we are slowly seeing the numbers shift to DO...in canada (which should see it near the end)

 

in the US look at the new number of new DO schools comming out...will boggle your mind

 

iam FOR these schools and recognition of the DO in the US..

 

1 in 4 doctors grad now are DOs in the US