Guest dakar Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 I know this has been discussed before, though maybe not specifically. I was wondering if anyone could comment on the relative merits of either program (or disadvantages...). Why would one pick the 5-year? From my brief reading it seems that administration & research are the two primary reasons. Is there a salary difference? Job opportunity difference? Promotions? "Respect" in the community (i.e. is one or the other looked at unfavourably)? Differences in job descriptions? any information would be most helpful. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Here's some previous posts on this topic; they're all in the CaRMS and Residencies forum. pub125.ezboard.com/fpremed101frm25.showMessage?topicID=43.topic pub125.ezboard.com/fpremed101frm25.showMessage?topicID=74.topic pub125.ezboard.com/fpremed101frm25.showMessage?topicID=52.topic The five year FRCP program is the "gold standard" program, which will enable you to work anywhere in Canada. The 3 year option CCFP may make it more difficult to get a job in a large hospital if you are competing with FRCP folks for a position. However, once you land a job, the money is all the same, and specialists are in such short supply that you can probably find a job in any city with a CCFP only. The five-year track also facilitates getting into research and admin. I'm going to send this to the CaRMS and Residencies forum... Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QM6 Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 Just wondering if anyone can confirm my interpretation of the online material - 1. You can get into the 5-year RCPSC programme only through CaRMS. 2. Since competition's so acute for the 5-year programme, there's never any spots left for the second round. So, if you already specialised in something else, you won't be able to get into the 5-year programme - you need to match into it on the first round and start right after med school (ie no MOTP!). 3. You don't apply to the 1-year CCFP(EM) programme through CaRMS, but through the CFPC and the schools directly. 4. No matter how long it's been since you finished the 2-year Family Medicine residency, you can apply for the CCFP(EM) year. 5. There are more residency spots available for the CCFP(EM) year than the 5-year RCPSC programme. 6. Question - Is there a list of hospitals that specifically require the RCPSC programme for ER hospitalists? If anyone knows, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JSS02 Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 For emergency medicine in particular, but also for other programs that are just as competitive, does one have to develop an interest in the field very early on in medical school to have a decent chance of getting the residency position? For example, someone who doesn't realize that he/she wants a career in emergency medicine until clerkship would probably be behind in terms of emerg. electives, research, etc. compared to someone who has been aiming for the specialty since the first year of med school. Does the first person still have a realistic chance if he or she performs well in 4th year electives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 I think you are going to find a range... the majority of people on the interview tour who went to >60% of the interviews had done a bunch of electives, research, EC, leadership etc. However, there were also some people who only interviewed at a couple of places who decided later but got spots... So it really depends. If you decide late, I would suggest getting yourself very well known at one school. Try and start doing research there - make sure they know that is where you want to be etc. I think it is possible to pursue a couple of streams at the same time. I did a bunch of hematology, wrote and presented a hematology project etc. I believe I would have had a pretty competitive Internal application as well but decided before applying to nix that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JSS02 Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Hey Carolyn, At what point would it be considered "deciding late"? After clerkship starts? Congrats again on your match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Late? -- likely depends on the school - Maybe early/mid-clerkship when you may already have only a bit of pre-carms elective time left... and not a lot of time to get involved in research... That said, a number of my classmates switched gears during clerkship and got some pretty competitive residencies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QM6 Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Hey Carolyn, Congrats too on matching at Toronto! Just wanted to ask you specifically if those little points I had above about CCFP vs RCPSC were correct. Do they sound about right to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 1. You can get into the 5-year RCPSC programme only through CaRMS. Yes, although in Ontario some people do switch in from other programmes. 2. Since competition's so acute for the 5-year programme, there's never any spots left for the second round. So, if you already specialised in something else, you won't be able to get into the 5-year programme - you need to match into it on the first round and start right after med school (ie no MOTP!). This year was the first year there was a spot left over - in Montreal - likely due to the situation in Quebec right now. The statistics can be found on the carms website: http://www.carms.ca 3. You don't apply to the 1-year CCFP(EM) programme through CaRMS, but through the CFPC and the schools directly. I'm not sure what the exact process is - check out the CCFP website -- Rupi may know... Also note that Queen's FM almost sortof guarantees a spot in the 3rd year - so a lot of people who know they want to do the 3rd year go there. 4. No matter how long it's been since you finished the 2-year Family Medicine residency, you can apply for the CCFP(EM) year. Not sure on this 5. There are more residency spots available for the CCFP(EM) year than the 5-year RCPSC programme. I'm pretty sure this is true - again check the two websites. 6. Question - Is there a list of hospitals that specifically require the RCPSC programme for ER hospitalists? I'm pretty sure Both VGH and St. Paul's in Vancouver require the 5 year training. Most of the large academic hospitals with trauma centres and a lot of academic emerg programmes (e.g. Sunnybrook, St. Mike's, Foothills etc) going on will often higher a 5 year over a 3rd year (supposedly) but there is such a need for Emerg docs that you can pretty much get a job in most hospitals even in large cities -- I know of a Family Doc without the 3rd year who is just finishing residency who was offered a job at a Toronto hospital (kind of a community hospital within the big city type of hospital) Other comments: If your plan is to only do clinical work than the 3rd year is considered to be sufficient from a clinical competency level.. The 5 year prepares you for an academic career -- doing research, teaching, administrative etc on top of doing clinical work... Carolyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QM6 Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dakar Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Is there a route/option to do ER after a general IM fellowship? I know a couple of IM docs who work almost exclusively in local ER's, but I have not heard of any actual fellowship training as per the CCFP-EM year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 You can do an IM-EM in the US as a residency. I'm not aware of anything similar in Canada. However there are some Internal Medicine specialists who work exclusively in the emerg during the weekdays doing all the internal consults... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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