A Question for Upper Year Med Students/Residents

[captcapt]

Hey Everyone! what do you guys wish you had done in 1st year? anything the class of 2016 should look out for? Basically just looking for general advice from upper year students and residents because I'm not really sure what to expect from 1st year.

[shikimate]

1) 65 is a pass, so is 95, don't stress out over marks too much.

2) Observerships are invaluable.

3) Paper books cost too much, and they are on the VERC computer anyways.

4) Little interludes between classes are the best part of the morning.

5) I wouldn't recommend gunning for 1 or 2 specialty right from the beginning, at least do few observerships in a variety of areas.

[DeeDoc]

1) 65 is a pass, so is 95, don't stress out over marks too much.

2) Observerships are invaluable.

3) Paper books cost too much, and they are on the VERC computer anyways.

4) Little interludes between classes are the best part of the morning.

5) I wouldn't recommend gunning for 1 or 2 specialty right from the beginning, at least do few observerships in a variety of areas.

 

This is amazing.

[NaiNoremac]

My father in law is a mechanic.. and was amazed.. ha, even to pass his classes he needed more than an 80%

[ws11]

1) 65 is a pass, so is 95, don't stress out over marks too much.

2) Observerships are invaluable.

3) Paper books cost too much, and they are on the VERC computer anyways.

4) Little interludes between classes are the best part of the morning.

5) I wouldn't recommend gunning for 1 or 2 specialty right from the beginning, at least do few observerships in a variety of areas.

 

I thought 60 was a pass?

[ellorie]

I thought 60 was a pass?

 

60 is the lowest possible mark to pass - I think she just meant that a 65 is ALSO a pass.

 

Personally, I would say - just try to enjoy the ride as much as you can. Don't be racing along trying to get to clerkship or residency or anything like that because it's a long road and you have to enjoy the scenery along the way.

 

I was so anxious at the beginning and I am still pretty anxious, but I am definitely learning to chill out and enjoy the ride.

 

I also second the advice about observerships - the doctors will know you are a first year so don't worry about needing to have any particular knowledge under your belt before starting - just go and see as much as you can.

[silverwhale9]

This is a great thread idea

 

I am curious about the workload in med school compared to undergrad ... is it more work but less stressful (because you just need to pass), is it more work and more stressful, less work, etc? Is the material difficult to understand or is it just a lot of memorization? I feel like it's going to be strange to actually have to memorize things instead of having textbooks and formula sheets for all my exams

 

If anyone is qualified to compare the workload to an engineering undergrad workload that would also be appreciated *cough* rmorelan *cough*.

[CharmingHedgehog]

I think it is just important to recognize that there will be times when you will not be able to finish studying everything in detail like you did in undergrad before going into an exam. Partly because there's a lot of details to know, partly because extracurriculars and other stuff also take up a lot of time. You just have to be OK with not knowing some stuff.

There's more memorization than logic for sure, but if you take time to understand the principles behind the facts, you definitely will retain more. This unfortunately doesn't really apply to drugs as much.

There are people gunning for 90+ on every exam, they are obviously stressed. There are others who decide that 65 is OK, and that's good. Other people have decided that they are going to know the big picture stuff, and learn the details later on, which I think is the way to go. So your stress level is determined by how much you are comfortable with not knowing =D

With all the type A personalities we have, it'll take some time to readjust to med school studying I think

[punknsmasher]

On an average day how much time do you spend studying?

[DeeDoc]

I'm gonna sing this on the way to every exam...

 

[ellorie]

Personally I go to class for 3 hours in the morning, sometimes I do maybe an hour at lunch if I have an afternoon class, or if it's a free afternoon maybe 1-3 hours, and then usually I work Friday afternoon right through the weekend.

 

If I am industrious and I do a few hours every weekday, I can take most of a weekend off, or what I usually do is blow off weekdays mostly and then just work through the weekend.

 

But I never really work past 5 or 6 pm or go to bed after 9 PM.

 

If it's an exam week I'll be at it every second during the week though.

 

I guess it's all about priorities. My work schedule probably wouldn't appeal to anyone other than me.

[punknsmasher]

Personally I go to class for 3 hours in the morning, sometimes I do maybe an hour at lunch if I have an afternoon class, or if it's a free afternoon maybe 1-3 hours, and then usually I work Friday afternoon right through the weekend.

 

If I am industrious and I do a few hours every weekday, I can take most of a weekend off, or what I usually do is blow off weekdays mostly and then just work through the weekend.

 

But I never really work past 5 or 6 pm or go to bed after 9 PM.

 

If it's an exam week I'll be at it every second during the week though.

 

I guess it's all about priorities. My work schedule probably wouldn't appeal to anyone other than me.

 

Thanks for sharing. It's good to hear what an average day for a med student is like.

[ws11]

Personally I go to class for 3 hours in the morning, sometimes I do maybe an hour at lunch if I have an afternoon class, or if it's a free afternoon maybe 1-3 hours, and then usually I work Friday afternoon right through the weekend.

 

If I am industrious and I do a few hours every weekday, I can take most of a weekend off, or what I usually do is blow off weekdays mostly and then just work through the weekend.

 

But I never really work past 5 or 6 pm or go to bed after 9 PM.

 

If it's an exam week I'll be at it every second during the week though.

 

I guess it's all about priorities. My work schedule probably wouldn't appeal to anyone other than me.

 

This schedule would be ideal but as you said ellorie wouldn't work for everyone. Just remember that although med school will be a big part of your life, it will not consume it entirely (at least not during first year for sure), and there will still be plenty of time to have fun. I will admit I didn't study nearly as much as you did, and I still did well. Everyone is different and you'll have to figure out what works best for you. But don't stress over it too much, especially at the beginning of the year.

[captcapt]

I think it is just important to recognize that there will be times when you will not be able to finish studying everything in detail like you did in undergrad before going into an exam. Partly because there's a lot of details to know, partly because extracurriculars and other stuff also take up a lot of time. You just have to be OK with not knowing some stuff.

There's more memorization than logic for sure, but if you take time to understand the principles behind the facts, you definitely will retain more. This unfortunately doesn't really apply to drugs as much.

There are people gunning for 90+ on every exam, they are obviously stressed. There are others who decide that 65 is OK, and that's good. Other people have decided that they are going to know the big picture stuff, and learn the details later on, which I think is the way to go. So your stress level is determined by how much you are comfortable with not knowing =D

With all the type A personalities we have, it'll take some time to readjust to med school studying I think

So do marks count for nothing? will anyone ever consider our med school marks in any applications? With residency positions being so competitive , how do they decide who gets what if marks are not considered. I guess im still stuck in the undergrad mindset where marks are really the only way to distinguish yourself.

[rmorelan]

So do marks count for nothing? will anyone ever consider our med school marks in any applications? With residency positions being so competitive , how do they decide who gets what if marks are not considered. I guess im still stuck in the undergrad mindset where marks are really the only way to distinguish yourself.

 

Your preclerk grades only count towards a handfull of special awards really. They just aren't that important.

 

Residency is a job - the application process resembles more a job interview than an academic posting. LOR, comments received during clerkship/electives, who have networked with, and absolutely how well you do in the interviews are critical. We argue sometimes about the subjective nature of med school interviews but CARMS is just like most of real life - very much so a subjective evaluation.

[captcapt]

Your preclerk grades only count towards a handfull of special awards really. They just aren't that important.

 

Residency is a job - the application process resembles more a job interview than an academic posting. LOR, comments received during clerkship/electives, who have networked with, and absolutely how well you do in the interviews are critical. We argue sometimes about the subjective nature of med school interviews but CARMS is just like most of real life - very much so a subjective evaluation.

thanks for the clarifying, i was really confused about how residents were selected.

[rmorelan]

Oh I should say that getting low grades is actually a very dangerous thing - it is all pass fail everywhere - so imagine you one of the few people that actually did fail something (and yes that happens, I have to go to those depressing meetings regularly enough to vote on what happens when it does). Now you have failure on your transcript that is going to stick out like a sore thumb during the CARMS application process. Your options just shrunk - and shrunk a lot. It is a quick way to reduce that pile of applications down during CARMS.

 

In the future it will be a little bit harder as well to actually pass (ie your year moving forward). There are some rule changes coming - nothing bad but it is important to make sure everyone really knows their stuff for their sake AND their patients

[captcapt]

Oh I should say that getting low grades is actually a very dangerous thing - it is all pass fail everywhere - so imagine you one of the few people that actually did fail something (and yes that happens, I have to go to those depressing meetings regularly enough to vote on what happens when it does). Now you have failure on your transcript that is going to stick out like a sore thumb during the CARMS application process. Your options just shrunk - and shrunk a lot. It is a quick way to reduce that pile of applications down during CARMS.

 

In the future it will be a little bit harder as well to actually pass (ie your year moving forward). There are some rule changes coming - nothing bad but it is important to make sure everyone really knows their stuff for their sake AND their patients

it always struck me as odd that med school was pass/fail. It seems to me you would want to correct any deficits in your knowledge for the sake of your future patients. I think tightening up the course expectations would be a good thing

[rmorelan]

it always struck me as odd that med school was pass/fail. It seems to me you would want to correct any deficits in your knowledge for the sake of your future patients. I think tightening up the course expectations would be a good thing

 

well yeah we do No one wants to be getting lower grades. Trouble it is easy to get distracted - ECs, research, observerships etc. If you are going for something competitive it is easy to think that a subject that doesn't apply to you as much is less important than things that boost your chances (i.e. if you are going to cardiac surgery then lectures on arthritis can appear to be a waste potentially compared to actually learning about cardiac surgery and impressing the program chair of that) - and there is some truth to that unfortunately - competitive specialities indirectly encourage that approach.

[sprinkles]

it always struck me as odd that med school was pass/fail. It seems to me you would want to correct any deficits in your knowledge for the sake of your future patients. I think tightening up the course expectations would be a good thing

 

I tottallyyyyy agree! It worries me to think that my family doctor only knows '60%' of what they should know...:S

 

But then again my Family doctor is really incompetent so I guess she falls in the 'less than 50%' category....my brother has strep throat right now and the family doc told him its nothing....the walk in clinic called her an idiot and prescribed my brother super strength antibiotics *sigh*

[captcapt]

I tottallyyyyy agree! It worries me to think that my family doctor only knows '60%' of what they should know...:S

 

But then again my Family doctor is really incompetent so I guess she falls in the 'less than 50%' category....my brother has strep throat right now and the family doc told him its nothing....the walk in clinic called her an idiot and prescribed my brother super strength antibiotics *sigh*

i think its a little unfair to break it down to that level. But physicians are just like any other profession they will run the spectrum form good to bad and everywhere in between.

[punknsmasher]

You can't expect a single physician to know EVERYTHING. That's why collaboration and knowing your own limits is critical.

[rmorelan]

family medicine scares me with the shear amount of material you need to know in only 2 short extra years. Not just to learn, but also to keep up with - it is an awful lot!

[ldnk]

family medicine scares me with the shear amount of material you need to know in only 2 short extra years. Not just to learn, but also to keep up with - it is an awful lot!

 

Versus 20 ago when you could finish Med School and be a generalist. Now that scares me. And we didn't have readily available fancy CTs and MRIs to help make our diagnoses.

 

I think the whole '60 and go' mentality is a little overblown for how much it is abused. The class averages have routinely been around 80% and the SD has rarely if ever been over 8. There is just way too much material to know it all based on maybe 1-3 brief exposures in the first two years of Medical school. I think there has been a tonne of times already where I have gone into clinic and realized I have forgotten a mnemonic that I thought was great. But the nice thing is that I go back to First Principles, ask pertinent questions, fiddle around on physical exam and if I don't have an answer I ask someone or check. Then it sticks in the brain because I have a patient face to put together with my diagnosis.

 

I think where it has helped me is take a load off the stress of choosing observerships or research opportunities over memorizing low yield pathology or useless statistics that aren't going to help me in the near future. It's not always the best approach but I feel like I learned some pretty valuable skills that I maybe wouldn't have been able to otherwise if I was stressed about getting a 95% average to duke it out in Carms.

 

And I think you have to be careful with the hearsay "this Doctor was incompetent because they didn't give me antibiotics and another one did". General policies are that you don't badmouth colleagues overtly. It's just bad practice. Secondly, it could just as likely be that it was a viral infection and the first doctor was justified in not giving Antibiotics. If the Strep score is a "1" because there is no exudate, lymphadenopathy or fever but the patient "doesn't have a cough" well, that's not supposed to be hit with antibiotics.

 

I don't know the situation because I wasn't there. But the flip side is that neither was the second Doctor so you have absolutely no idea what the patient presentation was at the time of their visit. It could have been a big screw up, it happen. And it doesn't automatically equal absolute incompetence. It's also possible that the other scenario could be correct too and the walk-in clinic was at fault for giving antibiotics to a noisy patient.

 

The bottom line is, don't throw stones in glass houses.