The stupidity of using the word "Visible Minority" in big cities in Canada

[AtomSmasherXVIII]

In Toronto right now, white people make up less than half of the population. Because there is no majority group in Toronto anymore, everybody who lives in Toronto is now considered a visible minority. Can we [Canadians] please stop using the term "visible minority?"

 

Can can we please stop pretending that racism still exists in places like Toronto, given that your boss is as likely to be brown as he is to be white? How small of a percentage of the population do white people have to occupy before racism is not considered to exist?

 

Note that in the context of this post I used the term "racism" to mean the systematic oppression of non-whites by whites.

[pheochromocytoma]

just to clarify: you think just because there is a lower percentage of white people, racism doesn't exist there?

[Leon]

Get off your keyboard, climb up those steps and open the door. The sunlight might hurt at first, depending on how long you've been cooped up in your parent's basement, but it will pass. Trust me, it will pass. It probably seems very daunting right now but we're all here to help you every step of the way. That's what this forum's for.

[PhoenixFlare500]

In Toronto right now, white people make up less than half of the population. Because there is no majority group in Toronto anymore, everybody who lives in Toronto is now considered a visible minority. Can we [Canadians] please stop using the term "visible minority?"

 

Can can we please stop pretending that racism still exists in places like Toronto, given that your boss is as likely to be brown as he is to be white? How small of a percentage of the population do white people have to occupy before racism is not considered to exist?

 

Regarding the term visible minority, I'd guess that overall in Canada that the race making up the biggest % of the population is Caucasian. That would mean that either Caucasians are the only ethnic majority and all other races are visible minorities, or everyone's a minority.

 

Exposing people to a larger percentage of another ethnicity would probably increase the amount of racism just based on pure chance, your conclusion doesn't make sense at all. On a personal level I've seen lots of racism over here and I'm pretty sure people that live in Toronto aren't that much nicer than people here. I don't know if you're trying to troll with this post or just need to take a course in logic...

[AtomSmasherXVIII]

What Atom's point is, or so I think, is that the prior notion of Canada being made up of predominantly white christian people is no longer valid. This former white predominance has a sort of "white-guilt" rooted in it which made us label those of other races as "visible minorities" with hopes that they would get a bit of a boost. In my opinion this kind of sentiment is likely driven by the American media encroachment of Canada and its emphasis on their history of slavery as if it is applicable to us in the same context. Plus, Chinese, Indian etc. people tend to do better than white people overall, so does pointing out their visible minority status better our society in any way?

 

Racism exists in Canada - in fact, to echo Phoenix's post, its probably worse now than ever since we have so many different cultures colliding, and have many people from countries that do not enjoy such levels of freedom and safety as Canada. This isn't cross-burning overt KKK racism either; its a more insidious type of racism that denies a job application, or lays off an employee for "performance issues".

 

You're right that racism still exists, and will always exist in every human. My point is that there is no such thing as the racist "white establishment" keeping all of the other races down - how could one exist if whites aren't even the majority anymore? The imaginary "white establishment" is the basis of all affirmative action programs.

 

The other thing that annoys me is the term "disadvantaged" in reference to racial groups, as if anybody born black or hispanic is automatically at a disadvantage. Disadvantaged compared to who? White people? Asians? Jews? Should white people receive affirmative action because Asians and Jews make more money?

 

If racial inequality exists, it's not because of a bunch of imaginary white business people who had a meeting and decided to collectively avoid hiring blacks and hispanics, but apparently not Indians, Asians, and Jews. The whole notion of this happening is absurd.

 

If you don't do well in life, you have nobody to blame but yourself. That's the golden rule. You can't blame it on white people or "the man" for making you fail.

[PhoenixFlare500]

They've done simple studies using identical resumes with some names that sound more white or domestic and some names that sound foreign, and the white names got more callbacks for job applications. That seems like a pretty big disadvantage to me.

 

You seem to think that pure numbers are the only thing that give an ethnic group more power. But in reality, the thing that gives that ethnic group the power is that they have power in the first place. The government is predominantly white. Business execs are most likely predominantly white. People who make policies and control money and power are mostly white. I'm just guessing here since I have no data to back that up but just from what I can see on the media or in front of me.

[AtomSmasherXVIII]

They've done simple studies using identical resumes with some names that sound more white or domestic and some names that sound foreign, and the white names got more callbacks for job applications. That seems like a pretty big disadvantage to me.

 

I don't doubt the validity of these studies. But if you accept the premise that everyone is equally racist, then you would find that if you controlled for the race of the person hiring, that you would not find an advantage to white people, but an advantage to people of the same race as the person hiring. Given that the fraction of the Canadian population that is white is going down, it is clear that there is no need for affirmative action, because pretty soon, minorities are going to be more common AND have the benefit of affirmative action - a double whammy effect.

 

You seem to think that pure numbers are the only thing that give an ethnic group more power. But in reality, the thing that gives that ethnic group the power is that they have power in the first place. The government is predominantly white. Business execs are most likely predominantly white. People who make policies and control money and power are mostly white. I'm just guessing here since I have no data to back that up but just from what I can see on the media or in front of me

Let's assume this is all true. Despite this, there are still pathways through the system that lead to success that are race neutral. Medical school admissions a good example of this (except perhaps the interview component but this makes up only a small part of it). Given that these pathways exist, why have the poorer races not taken advantage of them? This points to incompetency on their part, NOT a systematic bias on the part of the people in power. Supporting this assetion are studies that have shown that blacks and hispanics tend to have lower IQs than whites and asians. Should society be forced to step in to help someone who simply lacks talent (for reasons related to either nature or nurturance)?

[jerkstore]

The other races are more racist to each other, than white people are to the other races.

[PhoenixFlare500]

Given that these pathways exist, why have the poorer races not taken advantage of them? This points to incompetency on their part, NOT a systematic bias on the part of the people in power. Supporting this assetion are studies that have shown that blacks and hispanics tend to have lower IQs than whites and asians. Should society be forced to step in to help someone who simply lacks talent (for reasons related to either nature or nurturance)?

 

children from the black ghettos of America are given lower expectations by their teachers if their names are more along the lines of LaToya and Shaneequa than Mary or Jennifer, with the belief that children with those names are from families with low social status and high criminal records (and demographic records would support such beliefs, which unfortunately places these kids in a self-fulfilling prophetic trap).

 

Many IQ tests rely on the educational level of in the individual, so they do not just measure the inherent intelligence of that person but also the educational opportunities they have taken. If teachers don't put as much effort into helping certain kids succeed, over and over again, this could cause their measured IQ to be lower than it really could have been.

 

It's odd that you (AS) acknowledged nature vs nurture plays a part in your post but also said that either way, it's purely the individual's fault that they lack talent.

[PhoenixFlare500]

As Phoenix states, there is a very real preference by some employers towards those with white-sounding names. However, I am uncertain as to what the other non-preferred demographic names were. African black? American black? Arabic? Chinese? etc. the list goes on...

If I remember correctly, whites obviously had an advantage. I think Chinese names were ok. Muslim names definitely got screwed over. I don't know about black.

[Kasiunut]

They've done simple studies using identical resumes with some names that sound more white or domestic and some names that sound foreign, and the white names got more callbacks for job applications. That seems like a pretty big disadvantage to me.

 

You seem to think that pure numbers are the only thing that give an ethnic group more power. But in reality, the thing that gives that ethnic group the power is that they have power in the first place. The government is predominantly white. Business execs are most likely predominantly white. People who make policies and control money and power are mostly white. I'm just guessing here since I have no data to back that up but just from what I can see on the media or in front of me.

 

To be honest, I wonder what kind of jobs these people were applying for. The reason I asked is that I have worked in the real world and have been involved in recruiting and never ONCE have I seen anyone's application be thrown out because of the name. Why? Because I worked for a top public accounting firm and everyone cared about getting the best people, no one cared about name, race, sex, whatever. All we cared about were grades, resume and the the cover letter. Maybe some people in small restaurants or low skill jobs would make a big deal out of hiring someone with a "non white" sounding name but top companies care about performance and they know that judging someone's performance based on their name isn't going to come through. my husband, who was also recently hiring for his firm, said he and his bosses (all white) didn't even look at names and referred to applicants as "the guy who worked at Oracle" or "the guy who went to Western" when they were discussing who to interview (they ended up picking the guy who had the most experience, who happened to be of Iranian background).

 

Also this problem going to go away with time because of people of different races and cultures mixing in Canada. I worked with girl named Gina McCloud who was 100% Taiwanese background, but she married a guy with the last name McCloud and took the name. I also worked with a girl named Anna Baldry who spoke with an incredibly thick Russian accent (turns out she was born and raised in russia even though her dad, who died when she was 3, was British). with both these women, you would think that they were WASPs but neither was. On the flip side, I've worked with white women who had married non-white men and took their "ethnic" names or were the children of mixed culture marriages (one named Singh and the other Tsang, who are a director of HR at a large bank and investment banker respectively) and also had no problem applying for jobs.

[PhoenixFlare500]

The study was actually done to control for the rest of the qualifications. I don't think the applicants were even real people, they just had two identical copies of a resume with the only difference between the two being the name applying for the same jobs. I don't know what types of jobs they were trying to test though.

[Kasiunut]

The study was actually done to control for the rest of the qualifications. I don't think the applicants were even real people, they just had two identical copies of a resume with the only difference between the two being the name applying for the same jobs. I don't know what types of jobs they were trying to test though.

 

I see. Well, again, I'd wonder what industry they were applying for and what level...

 

There is always going to be bias - my husband said that at his work, pretty much everyone who works there went to Western. He even said that the bosses stated giving an advantage to anyone who went to Western when it came to granting interviews and even later if they had two equally good applicant.

 

But back to the original point about "visible minority" - its annoying because there are many people who are white but also immigrants, also may have trouble with English etc, but arent given the advantage the "visible minority" affirmative action might give them.

[Mandibular]

The other races are more racist to each other, than white people are to the other races.

 

defenitley. Ive seen some pretty intense asian on asian racism

[GREGtotheHOUSE]

The study was actually done to control for the rest of the qualifications. I don't think the applicants were even real people, they just had two identical copies of a resume with the only difference between the two being the name applying for the same jobs. I don't know what types of jobs they were trying to test though.

 

The study you're quoting was from the book Freakonomics.

[donnadee]

The study you're quoting was from the book Freakonomics.

 

actually there is a canadian study on this also:

 

http://news.efinancialcareers.com/69374/canadians-with-ethnic-names-less-likely-to-get-resume-callbacks-study-finds/

 

and in globe and mail on the same issue: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/right-rsum-wrong-name/article4274218/

[xkittens]

As of 2006 52.6% of torontonians were white, I'm no statistician but I think that's majority

Its right there on the Wikipedia page

[apache]

ironically, i was a subject in that study with different ethnic names… your assertation is based on superfluous information (percentage population) that, at surface seem suggestive, but completely constrain a satisfying response because questions like this beg 50 page plus responses, my neighbour came after 9/11 and has stupendous usmle results, being from iran, hah, good luck, i can tel you personal stories of specific residency programs that have preferences for img ethnicities… of course i won't, but you're so full of **** it's a joke, and i'm touching up a book on invisible minorities right now so i don't have time to write a 5-10 page response, and knowing me, if i got started… that's where it would end up… and i consider that ****, but there's only so many hours in the day… go out and live interview some black ppl in gta… seriously, i am for the invis minority book, even though i already know wut they went thru, numerous first hand accounts are so much more salient…. you're opinion might change drastically… leons bang on… **** simple plays on words, wut u read in the paper, and go to the real world, i just wrote a monologue for af american cultural festival here that had the mayor and everything… etc., i met some profs you should talk to, i was a systemic victim of k-12 education because i questioned the arbitrary and baseless means in which school attempted to instill "educated" values in me (i'm not asking permission to take a piss, sitting in a desk for 7 hours straight) so i i totally get where these minorities are coming from… you're right, everyone is responsible for their own actions…. why is your cv, social network, grades, public speaking ability, knowledge base, athleticism almost surely less than mine, i almost failed out of high school… have been on welfare… why do you less than a scholarship a month rate of awards thru undergrad… i believed i just wasnt those honors students for a long time, now world class professors will lose track of time in conversation with me… guess i never learned that taking night courses, not sitting in a chair for 8 hours… and actually walking the whole time, while i studied was acceptible, people think it's bizarre, until you start finnishing top of the class in course overloads where you dont buy textbooks for classes that are preqs for eachother and getting straight a's, ive also beat o well, to be somewhat anonymous 5-10 major corps legally and ive never paid a lawyer… i don't trust them to work as hard as me… and i have a learning disability and shouldnt have gone to university…. i guess now that's shifted to eminent leaders telling me i have the potential to change policy on a national basis…

 

so for all those minorities who didn't have an authority figure (my social studies teacher got me 99 on the diploma and shifted my final term average from 60's last 2.5 years to round 9… then 3.9 first year uni) because the guy taught me to think, instead of learn facts… you may have heard the whole give the man a fish, teach him how to fish quote… more or less what i'm saying… i'm telling you that they'll never live up to you just like you'll never live up to me, im nuts, being a doctor is chump change to me because i've transcended this bull**** status seeking rat race, u don't need an md when you can intimidate most phd's, md's, politicians you talk to… and because of my "disability"… and learning how to utilize it, i have a boundless emotional and service based orientation which the search for a nice car cant match, ever study 12 hours a day, maintain a rich social life, while usually doing 4 or more volunteer things at once, being pres of one, having a rich relationship, going to parties you dont even know exist, doing a couple years of research and be "asked" if you can join labs… eventually not by assistant prof x, but like, wanna do research in florida, fully paid, because i don't even get the prestegious canadian grants, theyre chump change… i guess i'd offer it too if a student could entice me to engage in hr long convos 3 hrs a week… btw… im short changing wut i've done by a lot… and my point isn't to show off… but i'm a living example of how systematic structures can lead to systemic (systematic structures lead to systemic consequences… maybe you might notice the nuance) discrimination that boarders on psychological abuse… i use to think i was dumb… seriously… now professors seek me out for convos… so that's for all the minorities who werent fortunate enough to have an inspirational figure back them up… politics is a later plan for me, so you wont see me for a bit, but you'll know me when u see me on tv… im the most subversively caustic, yet overtly friendly person, have amazing charisma, and intimidate everyone i debate with… of course, i'll prob be with ndp or maybe lib for expedient purposes… maybe if you work hard, really hard, you can achieve one of my innumerable goals

 

i know this is an unedited piece of ****… i spent maybe 10 min on… but it's not worth the effort of reviewing for grammar, you get the point

 

In Toronto right now, white people make up less than half of the population. Because there is no majority group in Toronto anymore, everybody who lives in Toronto is now considered a visible minority. Can we [Canadians] please stop using the term "visible minority?"

 

Can can we please stop pretending that racism still exists in places like Toronto, given that your boss is as likely to be brown as he is to be white? How small of a percentage of the population do white people have to occupy before racism is not considered to exist?

 

Note that in the context of this post I used the term "racism" to mean the systematic oppression of non-whites by whites.

[apache]

this is mostly to atom smasher, but sum 2 u 2 brooksbane, keep this **** sane until i post again in a month, to use leons statement: you seem like you get a lot of sunlight … ditto with leon

 

this sounds bitter… but it's intended humor… most is true, but everyone lives to be happy, so hope i don't come off arrogant, i'm just arrogant to people who think they're the bee's knees and are unimpressive… let's trash minorities for a self esteem boost, my dad has a grade 6 ed and speaking well, no english made him a vis minority… he's white, just old… ppl use to be really prejudiced against europeans too, bet you didn't know, have u come to canada at 16 with 10 dollars and no english… he had no chance and still lived an impressive life… and yah, there was tons of rquiv racist terms to current visible minorities… and u also got beat up… lol… the lady i grew up with worked as a nanny on a reserve… if i even described my experience with all the "prejudiced people i know… just cursererly… it wud be twice the length of below… and this is writing to be a ashamed off in the standards i hold myself to, still full of surreptitious preminitions of what could have been, experiential descriptions, which, handicapped by modesty and brevity, still make you look foolish - imagine some of the stuff i write for real that gets into the hundreds of pages… not to mention, i only use anecdotes… mostly because i want to convey a human message… facts are numbers you can't see feel or live through vicariously (thumbs up if you know what that means and don't listen to tool

 

means you're working hard to overcome your systematicly environment which systemically stops you from having a semi-elite (only because english skill has become deplorable, im not that good, but when i'm framed by people like yourself who will say you're repetitive: u use esoteric, elitist, ivory tower, vernacular, full of jargon: a priori, axiom, maxim, ad hoc, ad hominem, epiphenomenon, en soi, en pour, phenomenology, post hoc, hyperfocus, external locus of control, using algorithim versus heuristic, ontology versus epistemology… hermeneutics, using cronyism when nepotism is a synonym (close.. no cigar), systemic and systematic (lol, sure)… same word (lol, sure) … that's like grade 3 ****, so of course i look good, im grade 5 material yo. but your ok, keep working.

 

i've been offered so many high paying jobs through cronyism… what's wrong with, if it's the easy way to a job then why don't people do it… because it's often not… nepotism maybe, but try engaging a vice president in convo at a pool for 1.5 hrs, lol… brooks, you're responding to many risk averse people… medicine is easy… it's hard work, but everything is spelled out for you, that certainty is conforting and easy… at the level past post secondary, private industry can be crony factories… but high level managers (not mid levels - they're intimidated by superior talent), care if you're good, if you're good, you benefit, they benefit… so yeah, some fam friend might get inside track on 100 k salaried job, but i have potential to make firms a mil, im getting 250, and i don't follow the 9-5 rules everyone else does, cause i show up at noon, work till midnight, and produce superior work, you think people give a **** when you're a money machine for a company… the reason everyone wants the 9-5 government jobs is because private industry is often merit based at a high level, hence me being told by emply prep companies that i needed to use networking for work, because my skill level wasn't commensurate with my talent and that I intimidate mid-level managers… who prefer competancy but not to competant… high levels want the best, i'm not taking their job, and we both benefit… ppl say bs, but make your own luck, find corporate toastmasters… it's a free interview in fron of 30 people, maybe a third could hire you… life's so easy when you don't do things how you're supposed to… comfy gov job, **** that, it's like jun high all over again, i finnished my work in 3 hrs, let me leave… why am i hear till 5, not like you'll pay me double for double work if i stay, hence gov being great for people who well, use union as a means to earn (i worked union jobs for 5 years, i made 22-25 an hr doing NOTHING… great for undergrad, i studied… but i'm not a "safe guy", it impairs my performance, i can't perform when things are easy, i need challenging work to push me, i need to see the fruits of my labor… not push paper… the only reason im getting more education is because im passionate about certain issues, if i wanted the medigeek "dream", i'd take a pharma job, but when your motivation is national influence, well, that usually has health benefits and a huge salary as a bonus, but 16 hour days aren't worth it for the money… i see neurosurgs who do it everyday, but ****, they are in love with people and surg to do that… reading 60 reviews about a guy you just chatted with that all say this man saved my sons life, he changed my life, god bless… well that level of dedication can't come from making a few hundred grand… which when you get to the level necessary to make an extreme difference is chump change… i get offered internal client oil contract management jobs in the sauna, nice 100 g for a conversation… you think i (or him, doing 1 in 2 call for 1/6th the money of his us counterparts) reach the level to earn that money or in his case change so many lives simply to make cash or be called doctors, not worth it… changing lives when you've had real, human, experience with the people who you want to help (some literal accounts would be unpublishable theyre so disturbing, but a 2/10 is a woman who burned her face off in suicide attempt, imagine a 10)… too applying for research analyst job against masters students, write a lit review… it takes balls to say look at my work, it's superior to masters candidates, hell i practically rewrote a couples theses because they were discontigious, gramatically flawaed, dangling modifying clauses with periods interrupting contingent clauses… removes their guess work, i'll show you my resume… write a journal quality 25 page lit review… you see what you're getting, degree level stops mattering if the ends for the company is better the better they hire (unions often hire good people, but not too good, hiring par excellance candidates serves the union in no way… at least those represented by the union… of course they want top line negotiators) and gets you from a resume that would get passed over by by typically unsphisticated asinine "human capital maximizing" idiot in hr who doesn't understand the complexity of the job im applying for and thinks the words are too big… also, make sure to arrange change meetings with sen management, who themselves are often frustrated by hr… if you've got balls, and the talent to back it up, you've streamlined the process and have a win win situation their department has an ace, they look like a great manager, and you get paid and have a nicer lifestyle, plus network with people who can help you in future, just make sure you're ideological ends are in line with ends that are economically or say, sociatal impression improving… you can share ends with people without same motives… it's all about win win situations... of course, rules aren't completely out the door... you have to be appropriate when necesary suit and tie and perfect timing when meeting clients of course… but let's stop pretending we're all equal… i've met img's where i'm like you're a genius but the cultural divide… not acceptable… just like in retail, like you said… but there are loopholes to fm residencies here i wont mention… it funny listening to news coverage of this stuff when you lmeet people everyday who are the ones on the news… you only get a tenth of the story… but well, with the write documents and transition period, fm license is yours… but like everything, you've gotta know the rules, and being conventional… you're always at a disadvantage.

 

my bud finnished last in his vis design class and made 120 last year, because a top marketing manager he met in networking knew he had the eq and experience to manage the design team... most of his 4.0 counterparts make 20 an hour… because he networked for 4 years… well, he is their boss now… gotta get those soft skills, and meet the right people , the guy got me three interviews in a month for high paying jobs… lol, copywriting, i have no official training… but ****, i can write, i edit all his reports since he's esl… my ex learned graphic design on the fly got a gov internship, then they just offered her a graphic design job for 60 k… she told em too eff off and travelled america jack kerouac style… lived all over canada… same with prestigious accounting job… off to 3rd world and nearly leathal infection… shes got another 4.0 in nursing now… and she could annihilate most people in the hospital when shes done, she did nursing so she could travel and live in diff cities… when she was a visible minority (illness) she couldn't even get a 2.0 or get hired at mc****s, as soon as she recoverred and her image changed, she can turn down 6 figure jobs because well, when you're like us, her moreso, you've seen so much **** that everything is "turned down", you expect the 4.0, job offers from everywhere, so that you don't have to be like the hard working majority you describe who have limited options… she almost ended up homeless, sexual abuse, invisible minority from abuse… at one point society convinced her she would have to live at home for life and work in mcdonalds… lol, now she'd go into med school for fun… because when you've been through that, bookworm kids don't have a chance… people i've met have had their families shot in africa, others have survived incurable cancer… there's so many more, who made it and fell thru cracks, often by a serendipitious event or person… who were systemically disadvantaged, now we're so resilient and motivated by ulterior means than money (money's great, but me, her, cancer guy, were making mid 6 figures at will if we want too, cancer guy is already half way there with a chem degree… we were all almost pushed out of higher education by so many many people that we believed we we're second class, and he well, told doctors to **** off and live, just like i cured myself and even gave the idiot doc the articles a year later out of pity for a patient suffering similar symptoms…. we're not smarter, it's just we have no off switches, my design friend is similar, i've *****ed out provincial health ceos like mr u of t, try punishing me, i stopped feeling fear a long time ago, have a learning strategy of sit there until it's done, when your motivation isn't making your cousins jealous, life's easy, i read 45 pages in between subbing in playing tennis today, all my free time is skill developing, i go to the pool earlier and talk religion and phil with a random chick for two hrs, great way to get a date, also uses elaboration and develops body language interpretation, im a sieve, i've watched 2 tv series in 8 yrs, don't even bother with prepared speechs at advanced toastmasters bc i need subjects on the spot to seem difficult, and i still almost always win, getting told the city should fund a ted talks like thingy for you to give random talks at… at trad conservative business networking event… well, wut can i say… if you want my honest opinion i really support imgs because i find canadian med schools have low standards… p/f is bull****… the reason we say ed isnt equivelant is to protect the bottom quarter of canadian grads, these are people with 99 percentile usmles who have north american phd's and residencies in home country… but didnt have perm us res yet, came here, destroyed qe1's, ee's, toefl (you need straight 8/8's to pass btw, many native english speakers would fail), osces… to get one of 5 interviews for 1 spot with 100-150 apps, you think derm is that competitive… you really think my room mate couldn't destroy a year 4 ms, he was offered clinical assistant job… you know, basically a half price fm med doc to do surg assist, but turned it down out of price… he worked at ****ing cleve clinic for 8 years in research… the guy could have a number of insane jobs but wants to do medicine, and i listen to med students saying training isnt equivelant, well, ur right, you should be able to get a 99 percent usmle and get denied a position, where even getting an interview is almost 12 times easier than matching for a cmg to this partic program… i saw a lot of people pushed thru with 60's, do remed exams… yeah, our education is better all right, irony is bad img's who have connections have a loophole into spec fam med programs… oft w/o residency and only a supervised transition period… o, and theres 700 foreigners funded by their countries going back after who r doing res in canada at a time… why not let the bank lend them the equiv payment, give spots to "top imgs"… the free labour argument is mute, revenue generating arguement mute, and you have physicians who are perm res or citizens who want to practice in canada… and the bottom 5th of cmg's don't have to be protected from superior img's (im sorry, but 62 all thru preclinical… we shud cut med school spots till we hit equilib between "freely trained" img's and "costly but hardworking cmg's with the prev self funding policy in place for img's… and there's so many of them, you can cut 3/4 of the elite ones who are culturally retarded and they'd increase cheap labor the defendents of foreign funded residents use a point, because they function at at least an r3… often attending level, while the weaker m4's sitting in rads just slow down attendings… so now there's an alternative that keeps funding foreign training for money provides, cuts med school training costs for students who, not to sound harsh, suck (i'm sorry, when i talk to my fave specialty docs, psychiatry, i shouldn't be doing the teaching about slightly uncommon things, then again you should read that 1500 page ama psychopharm book, theres a nice 1000 page book on anxiolytics, plus ****, i shouldn't have to tell you about therapeutic modalities… and i shouldn't have to explain research methods to you… hearing adhd doesnt exist is my fave, wanna hear a 3-5 hour lecture on a subtopic… wanna hear about 15-20 or so drugs in the pipeline which will have you using benzos at will again over ssri's for anxiety, wanna hear about anything… i know you're smarter than me, but you haven't sen the extreme things i have, so i can't expect you to work half as hard as me… tangent there… back to img's... puts 200 more docs in canada a year, eliminates cultural problems many foreign funded, mostly saudi and paternalistic, residents have with patients) it's easy to spew bull**** when you don't know the facts… i wont even go into health systems and inefficiencies caused by bureacracy, professional protection to artificially perpetuate high salaries, political interest (any unemployed subspecialists victims of infrastructural limitations due to political sexyness of illness not matching prevelance… better make sure you specialize in something thats popular for politicians to fund…

 

so img's, they're not discriminated against… your lucky the country wasn't more fiscally astute, because if your the bottom half of ur med class, you're lucky you're protected from elite img's… just like government workers… if thing's were merit based and fair like you say, you'd be ****ed… not only are you mediocre, you don't even know how to play dirty, use networking and cronyism, look into "french" means… (i want a law degree and md, im taking my 7g in funding, applying for special student status, and will get my monthly scholarships… plus the huge tax refund im getting for the last 10 years me and my guardians paid… i'm already elite academically, but i lose tons of stuff, can be oppositional, and before learning to be less impulsive put myself in precarious situations because 60 yr old eminent people living for a plaque, are shocked when i dont kiss ass, and moreso when i can make them look stupid with ease… that's a functional disability, i can't be around ostentatious *******s, and unfortunately the work that suits me is usually full of a lot of them, i personally prefer the near drop out students… they don't have panic attacks over getting a ****ing b, and can have fun… they're not unthinking slaves to external validation… they're happy, but i can't do unchallenging work or minutia but i zone out in 2 minutes so stuck there… i have a legit functional disability… so i get double time… i need it, if im not in a private room i get distracted by people, and zone out for a bit, so need extra time… id get a's with normal time… point is, there's a huge debate over whether high iq adhd ppl should get accomodations on prof licensing exams since they compensate to be average in same exam time… but theyre not average, true accomodations allow people to perform to potential… and with extra two hours ill zone out half time, not start doing a little minithesis about culture and education during the exam because it's rather easy… in reality i get an a an i only spend 2/3 of total time doing exam, and in spare time i could write a social psych experiment proposal from zoning out… in the real world i work in private and take breaks every 30 min… so let me compete at a real world level, give me double time, breaks, private room… i have 1500 dollar neuropsych report that mandates it and im protected by disability law, try and deny me… just because i can get an a in 2/3's time doesnt mean i shouldnt have full working time so i can move from 5th in class to number 1…

 

 

I like Kasinut's point about the level of job that the people in Phoenix's study were applying for. Low-end retail or service jobs might be more prone to being prejudiced about names given that these jobs require interpersonal communication skills and the employers might feel that thick accents or cultural differences may affect their sales. High-end jobs like high finance, on the other hand, may care only for the effectiveness of the individual at increasing a company's profits regardless of their race. If these high-end jobs consisted of a lot of golf with the old-boy's club, then I would not be surprised if the same type of prejudices seen in the aforementioned study would also occur.

[apache]

WOW… i guess there's a 25,00 character limit… doesn't look like i'll be able to post anything serious if i have to break this apart into two messages

 

PART 2

 

you know i know innumerable amounts of people who've overcome obstacles… been hidden minorities… borderline due to multiple rape qualifies for sure, cancer guy, my friend who had his top asian physician mother from china send a letter saying he had a learning disability because he's adhd… stayed in program with 1.8… in china he was 2-5/5000 routinely, just knew business and marketing didn't look at grades… stayed in a program… and his success is testament (120g management position first year out… over his 4.0 counterparts) to well, how you're a minority, prejudiced against… what an irony, all of us invisible minorities who were oppressed learned how to game system… you're just a higher level peon than these minorities, does it feel good to insult them… because they could work hard and be a doctor like you, lol… and people like us who were systemically ****ed (an im giving you 1 percent) think you're a loser because you dont acknowledge these systematic structures which create systemic disadvantages (being told you dont belong in ever class you take from jr high to hs is kinda discouraging… so is welfare and all that, being exposed to radioactive chemicals during ur masters and having 15 surgeries… the girl, i wont go into… him, he's totally adhd, and asks questions, why do i need art history, ive failed twice, and its useless, irrelevant etc.)… i could do entire essays about barriers to getting off streets or a ot of topics, you can muster half a page of opinionated drivel with no substance or fact… you're at a huge disadvantage, all of us have almost no fear, we don't feel bad about outworking you, or using a loophole, cronyism isnt a dirty word, ppl with adhd have hyperfocus when you provide a proper environment… which is why i can write for 12-16 hrs day before essay is due… or because some are very sociable, intense, need high levels of danger/pressure to feel excitement, find talking to anyone easy… so well, a lot of my profs i know and instead of crammig literally could just say had a busy week, can you give me 3 days… of course, im an a student, participate, and the prof student relationship disintegrates quickly… other students just turn i half done essays and bomb… LOL, your prof is human, i even jam with an old one, you don't think they cut favours… o i could go on forever, have fun playing life with all the enjoyable people who remain ignorant so they can think their hard work puts them above lazy disadvantaged minorities… hehe, now you're the disadvantaged one… sucks eh… and i haven't even mentioned a 20th of wut i get away with because i know everything negotiable and, well, derive motivation from life experiences that just keep on going… oh… then my adderall, i need that stuff to not get tempted into daily 2 hrs convos with strangers (it's a curse to learn how to be likeable and interesting at will - i never get any work done), i also don't lose 300 dollar keys anymore, don't waste my time doing minutia… i often practice musical instruments 3 hrs a day cause i like it… but now i don't done out and have to pull all nighters because i can just put it down… therapeutic… it's a pleasant side effect… it helps me not zone out during exams and only get a-'s instead of a's, sit in a chair for an hour… so therapeutic… but who the **** are we kidding, you don't think my cognition is also improved… but i have increased dat, smaller cing gyrus, cholinergic dysfunction that makes me underestimate time, impaired glucose metabolism in catechlamine synthesizing areas of the brain that effect reward paths and executive function, d4 receptor downreg… thats called a disability, and why i might be thrill seeking, doesnt effect the skills that get me paid tho, and 60 mg adderall helps with all those non cognitive functions, losing things, organizations, but sometimes theres side effects, like my academic hyperfocus, well you see, prescribed speed gives me an advantage there… but losing 40 debit cards in 2 years… that's problematic… but that's what secretaries are for i guess… u know i'm all about psychoeducation too, and lifestyle mod… not just meds… it's just unfortunate that only lesser economically impairing skills are effected and i have to suffer the side effect of improved academic work… that's why i lose key's, they're not important, im thinking about a 30-80 tax refund im getting, but its problematic to always lose things, even others things… so i guess ill deal with the fact that my oppositionality, emotionality, tenacity, hyperfocus… which serve me in the, well, **** that pays, may be further increased as a result of getting my impulsivity on track… wow… you had no chance before… now you're really ****ed… maybe you should just work harder… getting into med is easy, i expect a few books, maybe a term as mp, you got to get an ivey grad somewhere, mph at hopkins at the least… and like… make use of it, at least change a state policy…

 

man, i havent mentioned my rediculous cv… **** it… who you think is taking euro… im calling portugal germany final… with germany dominating… thats way more exciting than talking about social stratification… if i can't do a 3 hr discussion or write 25-50 pages, it's like listening to alfred adlers birth order theory, the seconds childs a ***** and jealous because he was… u know what they say about opinions, theyre like faces , everyone has one… if u want to write somethig worth seriously responding to though, i'd love it, because this is like a break from writing for me… i hope you weren't taking your opinions seriously, because i'd feel bad putting a satirical piece of crap work out thats ****s and giggles and accidently not getting you're joking, cause i dont wanna embarass you, but you're smart… u r joking right? im sure if you tried we'd have serious discourse u know…. but life's fun, and it's nice out, i think im gonna head for a run before i finnish the next chapter of this stuff, my fave one, gotta get some work done you know, have hard time only doing one thing or prioritizing so i just do everything at once… better refill my meds, so i can prioritize better… i wanna get my abridged cv to 4.5 pages… it's hard you know, i chopped out all the unimportant **** (well more the less impressive but still worth of a cv but unfair to hr people who don't want to read a legit 6 page cv with no padding), but even listing scholarships single line takes 2/3's of a page… i'm sure you know what i mean… it's a real *****…

 

sorry about my ****ty spellling, usually mac spells for me but autocorrect was off, piece of crap… jk, i love my mac

[jerkstore]

As of 2006 52.6% of torontonians were white, I'm no statistician but I think that's majority

Its right there on the Wikipedia page

 

Wait a second, you're NOT a statistician?

[apache]

no, but he sure is a statistical deviation.

 

Wait a second, you're NOT a statistician?

[jerkstore]

no, but he sure is a statistical deviation.

 

I think he's a fine man and a hero of our time.

[apache]

demigod perhaps!

 

I think he's a fine man and a hero of our time.