bpatient Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Really eloquent argument by an Ottawa FM physician, as she goes up against some Health Minister who seems to be spewing the same crap as Joe Oliver, almost verbatim. This was really legit. And the media was very receptive to her kind demeanour. Now the public will hear the true logic of these policies and their impact on society. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/06/27/refugee-health-care-cuts-megan-williams-health-minister-leona-aglukkaq_n_1631165.html Wow! Nice find 1234, not to also mention her kind and caring demeanor makes her look very attractive Maybe the Liberals or NDP will help back up the research project on the cuts since if they the study is successful, it could provide great ammunition for these two parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holiday1001 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/outside/coverage.asp 'equal health care' my ass all for 100 million over 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holiday1001 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 The Conservatives are making a poor decision making enemies of physicians. how about the Ontario liberals. not faring so well with doctors either eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 how about the Ontario liberals. not faring so well with doctors either eh. Fair enough haha. Common theme - lack of willingness by the government to communicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/outside/coverage.asp 'equal health care' my ass all for 100 million over 5 years. Yup, lets not spend a couple of hundred fixing cavities. Lets let them develop into a dental absess and subsequent septicemia and spend tens of thousands. Sounds smart to me. I can't believe that, despite all the evidence and years with medicine, the decision makers haven't realized that comprehensive preventative care will be the only path to cost control. It is truly embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holiday1001 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 I don't get how they can possibly argue it's equal. unless diabetics don't get insulin isn't covered by OHIP, Canadian mothers have to pay for childbirth, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yup, lets not spend a couple of hundred fixing cavities. Lets let them develop into a dental absess and subsequent septicemia and spend tens of thousands. Sounds smart to me. I can't believe that, despite all the evidence and years with medicine, the decision makers haven't realized that comprehensive preventative care will be the only path to cost control. It is truly embarrassing. Political expediency. Refugees don't vote. They did not expect this public outcry from concerned citizens! Idiots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Quebec will cover healthcare fees for refugees and many Quebec physicians said will still offer the now non-covered treatements: http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/sante/201206/27/01-4538916-soins-aux-refugies-les-medecins-quebecois-indignes.php Great move! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 The idiotic federal leadership is too proud to backdown on their blunder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciel999 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Some serious balls here. This makes me appreciate freedom of speech more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Henderson Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Some serious balls here. This makes me appreciate freedom of speech more. Indeed. Very proud to be entering a profession where people are willing to stand up for what is right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Indeed. Very proud to be entering a profession where people are willing to stand up for what is right Surely not when their future is at stake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 number one… your not entering a profession where people are willing to stand up for what is right… not in canada at least… that man is the extreme, extreme, exception rather than the rule, they'll try and take his license a lot faster than even bring in an incompetent drug addict doc in for a talk for the preferred non-punitive… or non-publicized route… lol, doctors that speak out, i know a few, lol, are insane, as in hey, you have kids, wanna feed them or keep running your mouth… and them responding i'll take my chances talking… Indeed. Very proud to be entering a profession where people are willing to stand up for what is right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 why bother, people will forget eventually, and his life will be a living hell The idiotic federal leadership is too proud to backdown on their blunder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Henderson Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 number one… your not entering a profession where people are willing to stand up for what is right… not in canada at least… that man is the extreme, extreme, exception rather than the rule, they'll try and take his license a lot faster than even bring in an incompetent drug addict doc in for a talk for the preferred non-punitive… or non-publicized route… lol, doctors that speak out, i know a few, lol, are insane, as in hey, you have kids, wanna feed them or keep running your mouth… and them responding i'll take my chances talking… Huh? After working through what I think you're trying to say I'll conclude that we've obviously had different experiences with healthcare professionals. I have encountered numerous physicians who have fulfilled their roles as advocates for their patients and other vulnerable groups of people. Perhaps they have not received the same level of media attention or done it on a stage as large as a federal funding announcement like the two physicians referenced in this thread (in Toronto and Ottawa), but they have indeed stood up for what is right and made their voices heard. We're all entitled to our own opinions though, which are of course largely based on our personal experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 number one… your not entering a profession where people are willing to stand up for what is right… not in canada at least… that man is the extreme, extreme, exception rather than the rule, they'll try and take his license a lot faster than even bring in an incompetent drug addict doc in for a talk for the preferred non-punitive… or non-publicized route… lol, doctors that speak out, i know a few, lol, are insane, as in hey, you have kids, wanna feed them or keep running your mouth… and them responding i'll take my chances talking… Dude, I know it's the internet, but without punctuation (most importantly periods), it is next to impossible to understand what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomSmasherXVIII Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Indeed. Very proud to be entering a profession where people are willing to stand up for what is right How do you know that your side is right? Why should we be spending money on non-Canadian citizens especially considering that we have so many problems of our own? Refugees are supposed to be here only temporarily, should we really be giving them the luxury treatment? Is that fair to immigrants who came to Canada the hard way? Should we really be letting our emotions get the best of us, and spending money on issues that are most salient, rather than those most problematic overall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Henderson Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Further I'd be interested in seeing anyone try to yank a practicing physician's license for exercising their right to (very reasonable) free speech, especially when the CFPC (these were both family physicians) passed the following resolution: On June 1, 2012 the Board of The College of Family Physicians of Canada passed the following resolution: The College of Family Physicians of Canada (CFPC) opposes the federal government’s decision to cancel supplemental health benefits for refugee claimants under the Interim Federal Health Program (IFHP). The CFPC calls on the federal government to reverse this decision. I can only imagine the firestorm of anyone even attempting to go after either of these docs for taking a stand against this ill-advised, senseless change in policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Henderson Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 How do you know that your side is right? Why should we be spending money on non-Canadian citizens especially considering that we have so many problems of our own? Refugees are supposed to be here only temporarily, should we really be giving them the luxury treatment? Is that fair to immigrants who came to Canada the hard way? Should we really be letting our emotions get the best of us, and spending money on issues that are most salient, rather than those most problematic overall? The points you raise are already well addressed if you would take the time to read on the issue that you're arguing about. The "savings" that are suggested will not in fact be savings, but will rather postpone costs that will then be far more when they result in emergency treatment being necessary. I fail to see how basic healthcare and prescription medications are considered "luxury treatment" for people who have come from war-torn and disaster stricken countries. Immigrants who come to Canada the "hard" way are not subjected to the same magnitude of circumstances, so let's not compare apples to oranges. That's not to say that there isn't room for improvement to our treatment of immigrants, but that certainly doesn't mean we should be cutting off funding to such a vulnerable group. 100 million dollars over 5 years is absolutely nothing on the federal scale. It pales in comparison to the potential losses as a result of the black eye that Canada is continuing to give itself on the international stage through ill-informed policy changes such as this and restrictions on freedom of speech and protest rights in Quebec (to name a few). When you factor in that these "savings" will eventually result in significantly higher costs down the road, its absolutely asinine. You want to spend money on more pressing issues? How about scraping a bit off the 22.3 billion that we spent on military expenditures during the 2010/11 fiscal year. That's a 54% rise in military spending since 9/11 and the highest its been since world war two. I'm sure we could take care of a few more issues at home using even a small fraction of that money than we could by saving 20 million by sending refugees in need of healthcare to fend for themselves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 How do you know that your side is right? Why should we be spending money on non-Canadian citizens especially considering that we have so many problems of our own? Refugees are supposed to be here only temporarily, should we really be giving them the luxury treatment? Is that fair to immigrants who came to Canada the hard way? Should we really be letting our emotions get the best of us, and spending money on issues that are most salient, rather than those most problematic overall? You are so clueless. Do you not understand that a lack of refugee care leads to worse health care for Canadians? Do you think untreated prodromes of a disease remain dormant? Disease will develop into acute illness. When someone gets a dental abcess, diabetic ketoacidosis, tuberculosis, where do you think they will go? You think those illnesses just resolve on their own? It is called the EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT. What happens when you go to the ER? You get admitted. Do you know how much that costs? Hundreds of folds the cost of preventative care. Do you not understand that individuals with disease living in this country, regardless of status, is detrimental to the health of all? Someone walking around has TB? Guess who gets infected. CANADIANS. Someone has an episode of syncope/MI/angina from untreated heart disease while driving a car? Guess who the victim of the collision is. CANADIANS. Where are refugees going to go upon onset of complications related to uncontrolled disease (ie. diabetes)? The emerg. Who will be in the waiting room 12 hours? CANADIANS. What happens when people have uncontrolled disease with no avenue for assistance? SUICIDE. ROBBERY. WHATEVER THEY NEED TO DO TO SURVIVE. Who could possibly get hurt in the process? CANADIANS. You know how I know? Use your brain and read the news. Under significant austerity measures, Greece has made massive cuts to health care - people can't get their necessary meds because they are now 4x more expensive. Guess what - suicide rates are up 40-50% over the last two years. You have a lot more reading and understanding to do before you can logically argue health care administration from a population perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 How do you know that your side is right? Why should we be spending money on non-Canadian citizens especially considering that we have so many problems of our own? Refugees are supposed to be here only temporarily, should we really be giving them the luxury treatment? Is that fair to immigrants who came to Canada the hard way? Should we really be letting our emotions get the best of us, and spending money on issues that are most salient, rather than those most problematic overall? Refugees come here to live here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Refugees come here to escape persecution and are seeking permission to live in Canada, they are not tourists here seeking to visit. They are destitute and need public assistance and our enlightened society should be providing for their needs while their cases are being investigated. This includes providing for their medical needs. It is a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomSmasherXVIII Posted June 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 I personally don't give a rat's ass about refugees. Canadians come first. They should be happy to even be here. Any refugee complaining about his lack of government handouts should be sent back to where they came from. Would have been nice to see the bill only giving care to refugees to treat illnesses that indirectly affect Canadians, such as TB (that one poster mentioned), then kill everything else (e.g. cancer treatments). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 I personally don't give a rat's ass about refugees. Canadians come first. They should be happy to even be here. Any refugee complaining about his lack of government handouts should be sent back to where they came from. Would have been nice to see the bill only giving care to refugees to treat illnesses that indirectly affect Canadians, such as TB (that one poster mentioned), then kill everything else (e.g. cancer treatments). Why do the mods allow a troll like you to always come back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 I personally don't give a rat's ass about refugees. Canadians come first. They should be happy to even be here. Any refugee complaining about his lack of government handouts should be sent back to where they came from. Would have been nice to see the bill only giving care to refugees to treat illnesses that indirectly affect Canadians, such as TB (that one poster mentioned), then kill everything else (e.g. cancer treatments). How compassionate But purely on a money level a lot of the refugees do get granted permission to stay - we will end up paying for they consequences of those chronic conditions at that point (as now they are in the system just like everyone else) except they will now cost us a huge sum of money more. It isn't cost effective to ignore the problem. The difference though politically is it is the province that will be paying that cost not the federal government so the people changing the policy won't have to deal with the fallout. Of all the things the government can be doing and arguing for this one just seems like a waste of time and energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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