Big Decision.. help

[raptors_7]

Hey Im going into third year at UWO and I'm enrolled in Med Sci. Up until now I have been set on dentistry but my marks have been slightly over average.

 

First year: deans list with 79.5

second year: 77.9

 

I was just accepted into the Ivey HBA program at Western, and now I'm having a real tough time deciding if I want to do a Dual Degree with Med Sci +Ivey, or if I should reject Ivey and go for dental school.

 

Most of my science courses have hovered in the low 80s, mid-high 70s range (the majority being mid-high 70s), and I want to know realistically if I will be able to get into American Dental Schools with these marks. I was planning to write the American DAT this summer for the first time(probably end of August, I was planning on writing the Canadian DAT in November as well).

 

Realistically, do I have a good shot at getting into dental school in the States/Canada within 4 years of my undergrad? Assuming my marks are generally the same for years 3/4? Or, if I decide to take Ivey+Med Sci, will dental schools still consider me after that or will they not even look at me because of the Business Admin. degree?

 

(I HAVE JUST OVER A WEEK TO DECIDE)

 

Thanks

[charmer08]

Hey Im going into third year at UWO and I'm enrolled in Med Sci. Up until now I have been set on dentistry but my marks have been slightly over average.

 

First year: deans list with 79.5

second year: 77.9

 

I was just accepted into the Ivey HBA program at Western, and now I'm having a real tough time deciding if I want to do a Dual Degree with Med Sci +Ivey, or if I should reject Ivey and go for dental school.

 

Most of my science courses have hovered in the low 80s, mid-high 70s range (the majority being mid-high 70s), and I want to know realistically if I will be able to get into American Dental Schools with these marks. I was planning to write the American DAT this summer for the first time(probably end of August, I was planning on writing the Canadian DAT in November as well).

 

Realistically, do I have a good shot at getting into dental school in the States/Canada within 4 years of my undergrad? Assuming my marks are generally the same for years 3/4? Or, if I decide to take Ivey+Med Sci, will dental schools still consider me after that or will they not even look at me because of the Business Admin. degree?

 

(I HAVE JUST OVER A WEEK TO DECIDE)

 

Thanks

 

You're not getting into a Canadian dental school with those marks assuming you're an Ontario resident. US dental schools are easier to get into than Canadian dental schools but I don't know what gpa would a Canadian applicant need to be competitive.

[dentall]

Unfortunately if your marks stay the same, you don't have a realistic chance of getting an interview at a Canadian school. US schools however, could be a viable alternative as long as you have a solid DAT score, are fairly well rounded and apply broadly. My personal opinion would be to follow the Ivey/MedSci route as it will help broaden your experiences (potential asset in the application process) and provides many opportunities should dental school not work out.

 

Hope this helps.

[cleanup]

To be honest, depending on how your school reports grades on your transcripts, you may not have much of a chance at U.S. schools either.

 

If your transcript has only percentages, your grades will be standardised according to the following scale:

 

60-69 = D = 1.0

70-79 = C = 2.0

80-89 = B = 3.0

90-100 = A = 4.0

 

Keep in mind that even the school with the lowest average matriculant GPA (Howard University) sits at 3.09, which is about an 80% average. Only 5 schools out of 61 have an average GPA below 3.4. In most schools in the States, an average of 90% gets you a 3.5. This will usually be inflated because AADSAS gives A+'s a 4.33. However, in the States, an A+ is usually 95+, not 90+ like in most Canadian schools.

 

The only reason why Canadian students typically get a boost is because in many Canadian schools, an A is actually an 80-100, and regardless of the percentage grades on the transcript, if letter grades are present, the AADSAS will prioritise those and convert them instead (they consider letter grades to be more of a standardized from which to draw conclusions about academic performance). Also, any A+'s on your transcript are given a 4.33.

 

I suggest you see what you can do about pounding out 2-3 years of solid 3.85+ years in order to have a chance at UWO and U of T.

 

Having a Master's degree would definitely help as well.

 

Best of luck.

[hchc]

Hey Im going into third year at UWO and I'm enrolled in Med Sci. Up until now I have been set on dentistry but my marks have been slightly over average.

 

First year: deans list with 79.5

second year: 77.9

 

I was just accepted into the Ivey HBA program at Western, and now I'm having a real tough time deciding if I want to do a Dual Degree with Med Sci +Ivey, or if I should reject Ivey and go for dental school.

 

Most of my science courses have hovered in the low 80s, mid-high 70s range (the majority being mid-high 70s), and I want to know realistically if I will be able to get into American Dental Schools with these marks. I was planning to write the American DAT this summer for the first time(probably end of August, I was planning on writing the Canadian DAT in November as well).

 

Realistically, do I have a good shot at getting into dental school in the States/Canada within 4 years of my undergrad? Assuming my marks are generally the same for years 3/4? Or, if I decide to take Ivey+Med Sci, will dental schools still consider me after that or will they not even look at me because of the Business Admin. degree?

 

(I HAVE JUST OVER A WEEK TO DECIDE)

 

Thanks

If you really want to go all in on dentistry you can switch up completely by going to a University that gives you in-province status if you live there for 1-2 years.

[charmer08]

To be honest, depending on how your school reports grades on your transcripts, you may not have much of a chance at U.S. schools either.

 

If your transcript has only percentages, your grades will be standardised according to the following scale:

 

60-69 = D = 1.0

70-79 = C = 2.0

80-89 = B = 3.0

90-100 = A = 4.0

 

Keep in mind that even the school with the lowest average matriculant GPA (Howard University) sits at 3.09, which is about an 80% average. Only 5 schools out of 61 have an average GPA below 3.4. In most schools in the States, an average of 90% gets you a 3.5. This will usually be inflated because AADSAS gives A+'s a 4.33. However, in the States, an A+ is usually 95+, not 90+ like in most Canadian schools.

 

The only reason why Canadian students typically get a boost is because in many Canadian schools, an A is actually an 80-100, and regardless of the percentage grades on the transcript, if letter grades are present, the AADSAS will prioritise those and convert them instead (they consider letter grades to be more of a standardized from which to draw conclusions about academic performance). Also, any A+'s on your transcript are given a 4.33.

 

I suggest you see what you can do about pounding out 2-3 years of solid 3.85+ years in order to have a chance at UWO and U of T.

 

Having a Master's degree would definitely help as well.

 

Best of luck.

 

Has anyone called uoft and asked them the average gpa of undergrad applicants invited to interview? Cuz, it doesn't make sense to me that if the average is 3.84-3.85 and grad students make less than half of the class, why does an undergrad applicant need an above average gpa?

[euphaire]

To be honest, depending on how your school reports grades on your transcripts, you may not have much of a chance at U.S. schools either.

 

If your transcript has only percentages, your grades will be standardised according to the following scale:

 

60-69 = D = 1.0

70-79 = C = 2.0

80-89 = B = 3.0

90-100 = A = 4.0

 

That's not how percentage GPA was converted for the US. My school, UofWaterloo, only has percentages, so I converted my grades using the OMSAS scale (where 86+ = A, 75+=B, 90+ = A+ etc.).

[cleanup]

Has anyone called uoft and asked them the average gpa of undergrad applicants invited to interview? Cuz, it doesn't make sense to me that if the average is 3.84-3.85 and grad students make less than half of the class, why does an undergrad applicant need an above average gpa?

 

I think the most recent stats are from a couple years ago. You can find them on the website. The average interviewee had a GPA of 3.85, while the average matriculant had a GPA of 3.9.

[cleanup]

That's not how percentage GPA was converted for the US. My school, UofWaterloo, only has percentages, so I converted my grades using the OMSAS scale (where 86+ = A, 75+=B, etc.).

 

Errr, you mean you arbitrarily said that your 86 was an A on your AADSAS application?

 

If you did, you're lucky AADSAS didn't bother or didn't manage to catch you. AADSAS is supposed to standardize your grades, not you.

 

Otherwise, what's stopping someone from reporting the 75 they got in Cell Bio but saying "Oh, at my school that's an A"?

[euphaire]

Errr, you mean you arbitrarily said that your 86 was an A on your AADSAS application?

 

If you did, you're lucky AADSAS didn't bother or didn't manage to catch you. AADSAS is supposed to standardize your grades, not you.

 

Otherwise, what's stopping someone from reporting the 75 they got in Cell Bio but saying "Oh, at my school that's an A"?

 

They recognize the OMSAS scale for Canadians. It's no accident.

I applied for OPTOMCAS before (considered optometry). They also accepted the OMSAS conversion.

 

EDIT: yes, now I remember calling AADSAS back in Aug 2011 because I was worried my GPA would look very bad with their scale. They told me over the phone that Canadians can use the OMSAS scale.

[cleanup]

They recognize the OMSAS scale for Canadians. It's no accident.

I applied for OPTOMCAS before (considered optometry). They also accepted the OMSAS conversion.

 

This is the first I've heard or seen of this. Never came across this during my application, nor on SDN. Seems a bit odd to me that they would just accept that, and yet, not make it clear at all on their website? There's no mention of OMSAS; only their standardized scale. They specifically say that percentage grades will be converted in such and such a way and make no distinction between where the grades come from.

 

OP, if you're considering American dental schools, best to do your research. Call AADSAS and ask any and all questions you might have.

 

Best of luck!

[charmer08]

I think the most recent stats are from a couple years ago. You can find them on the website. The average interviewee had a GPA of 3.85, while the average matriculant had a GPA of 3.9.

 

http://premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47892

 

It was a 3.83 in 2009. :/

[cleanup]

http://premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47892

 

It was a 3.83 in 2009. :/

 

Hmm, my bad! Not sure where I saw those previous numbers then.

 

From the U of T Dental website, looks like it went up a bit for the class of 2014 up to 3.85. Class of 2015, not sure! I suppose we'll see in a few months.

 

Statistics for the Doctor of Dental Surgery Program (DDS) 2010 Entry

 

TOTAL APPLICANT POOL: 462

 

Male: 218

Female: 244

Aboriginal: 2

 

Mean Grade Point Average: 3.63

 

Mean DAT Scores (0-30 range): Academic Average (AA): 20

Perceptual Ability Test (PAT): 20

 

TOTAL OFFERS OF ADMISSION: 92

 

Male: 45

Female: 47

 

TOTAL REGISTERED STUDENTS: 65

 

Male: 29

Female: 36

 

Distribution by Province:

Ontario: 61

Other: 4

 

Level of University Education:

3 Years: 15

4 (or more) Years: 29

Master's: 22

Ph.D.: 0

 

Mean Grade Point Average: 3.85

 

Mean Interview Score (0-35 range): 28

 

Mean DAT Scores: Academic Average (AA): 21 {Range: 18-25}

Perceptual Ability Test (PAT): 21 {Range: 14-27}

[charmer08]

Hmm, my bad! Not sure where I saw those previous numbers then.

 

From the U of T Dental website, looks like it went up a bit for the class of 2014 up to 3.85. Class of 2015, not sure! I suppose we'll see in a few months.

 

2008 was a 3.91

ugh its so random

[human instinct]

class of 2015 average gpa was 3.82

[raptors_7]

Unfortunately if your marks stay the same, you don't have a realistic chance of getting an interview at a Canadian school. US schools however, could be a viable alternative as long as you have a solid DAT score, are fairly well rounded and apply broadly. My personal opinion would be to follow the Ivey/MedSci route as it will help broaden your experiences (potential asset in the application process) and provides many opportunities should dental school not work out.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Third year will be a little less hectic than second year, and I know that with hard work I will be able to improve my grades and have a bunch of 80s this year. I know its going to be tough with Canadian dental schools, so my plan is actually to go the American route for dentistry. It's just that with Ivey, I would have to work even harder to ensure I get a solid job after. So with the amount of work I put in with Ivey, if I just do the same with my science courses, I feel that I could easily get into the States (given a good DAT score as well). I am well rounded and I have lab research experience this summer. As well if I do Ivey, then I would need to work 2 years after graduation, then do a Masters in Health Admin, and then finally get a solid job in the health care field.

[dentall]

It's good that you have a plan, but it sounds to me like you're pigeon holing yourself with the Ivey route. Based on your secod post it sounds a if you already knOw whih route you want to persue. If you're set on dentistry then stay in med sci and work on improving your GPA. Your chances aren't totally lost for Canadian schools (like Western if your next few years are good). I'd also caution the idea that you could 'easily' get in. Although I'm sure you're dedicated and well rounded, it will still require a ton of hard work.

 

Best of luck

[dentaldoc]

For medicine and even more so for dentistry nowadays, GPA IS KING.

 

Having a backup is a good idea, only if you can manage to keep your GPA high.

 

just sayin

[dentaldoc]

GPA stat for UT could have been skewed since they accepted 22 students with Masters. I'm not saying that all masters students have lower undergrad gpa but from looking at stats from other schools, I think we can make an assumption that masters students undegrad gpa could have brought down the mean.

[cleanup]

GPA stat for UT could have been skewed since they accepted 22 students with Masters. I'm not saying that all masters students have lower undergrad gpa but from looking at stats from other schools, I think we can make an assumption that masters students undegrad gpa could have brought down the mean.

 

But what if the stats include the .2 boost that Masters students get? No one really knows.

[dentaldoc]

But what if the stats include the .2 boost that Masters students get? No one really knows.

 

what?? masters students get .2 boost?? :eek: :eek:

[cleanup]

what?? masters students get .2 boost?? :eek: :eek:

 

That's what I heard. That's why Masters students can get in with a 3.65-3.75 undergrad GPA.

[charmer08]

That's what I heard. That's why Masters students can get in with a 3.65-3.75 undergrad GPA.

 

That might make sense... the minimum gpa to be interviewed last year was a 3.79. And when I called the admissions office to ask them what the minimum gpa of "undergraduate" applicants was, they said it was about a 3.8... I don't know how true that is because applicants with 3.8+ gpas have been rejected. And they only interviewed 175 ppl last year instead of the usual 190!

 

Btw where did you hear that from? Its not stated on their website.

[cleanup]

That might make sense... the minimum gpa to be interviewed last year was a 3.79. And when I called the admissions office to ask them what the minimum gpa of "undergraduate" applicants was, they said it was about a 3.8... I don't know how true that is because applicants with 3.8+ gpas have been rejected. And they only interviewed 175 ppl last year instead of the usual 190!

 

Btw where did you hear that from? Its not stated on their website.

 

It's been thrown around here and there on the forums here.

 

It would serve as a convenient way to easily pit MSc applicants against BSc-only applicants. It might also explain why most of the MSc folks who get accepted have undergrad GPAs in the 3.7-3.8 range. You don't really see below 3.6, for example.

[charmer08]

It's been thrown around here and there on the forums here.

 

It would serve as a convenient way to easily pit MSc applicants against BSc-only applicants. It might also explain why most of the MSc folks who get accepted have undergrad GPAs in the 3.7-3.8 range. You don't really see below 3.6, for example.

 

But they do say that the lowest gpa interviewed was a 3.79... That 3.79 has got to be a grad student... but then undergrad student won't get an interview with that gpa. So I don't think they would add a 0.2 to the masters students gpa to count them in the same pool as the undergrads.