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The Average 'wage' of doctors 2012


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Muse, I'm sure you are very smart and all (probably smarter than most of us) but WHY do you high-jack almost every single thread just to talk about yourself? Apart from the last two sentences, I honestly don't see how what you posted had anything to do with why or why not doctors deserve high wages.

i salute the effort you went through to do this

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ok, i'll tell it like it is, I've done LSAT, MCAT, DAT. The DAT, imo is a joke, but only the academic section carving is hard. the LSAT and MCAT are very close in difficulty, if you disagree, feel free to wing a 170 on the LSAT for fun. You put the stress… on yourself, I had around 10 A+'s in 50 courses… I got like 5 b+s or so, but I pushed myself to take courses outside my comfort zone (existential psychology… try reading being and time, i still can't, and stupidly, im stuck with peopple who have strong background knowledge, all phil majors… first day i showed up was 15 percent quiz day as i trasfered from boring anatomy… so i got 2 days to learn some existentialism… first time at this stuff, my god, 2 days, with not instruction... other guy failed and dropped. You can take your pre-req's in spring/summer, and most pre-med extra-curics are padded and over-stated. but i wasn't having a panic attack, it's just a quiz, lol

 

I met a girl who blew my mind once, she understated her accomplishments quite a bit, didn't talk about self, despite being more accomplished than almost anyone id met here. They were too good to state in a sense, and I can resonate, what do I say about the multiple suicides I stopped, hearing about people burning flesh isn't palatable, but beats being a member of campus pre-med club… and I'm only mentioning a single occasion, forget the hundreds of occasions I could describe that are heavily graphic, many attempts, but not serious, and this is one of many people. what i mean, was that's bad, you don't wanna seem like you've seen too much...

 

My friend has been working tirelessly for 5 yrs for MAKE POVERTY HISTORY, it's almost all him, he's amazing, he works in fort mac to make 18 g a year to fund the yearly campaign, i think he finally got invited to a top 50 young leaders club by Obama… he used to sleep in his car, but he's changed Canadian's percentage GDP towards poverty, has been in, god knows, maybe 100-200 magazines. We even used to get together with another guy in Dentistry and he would learn about Bahai'ism… google him, he's still doing things (like on guy who did an ALS gala to get into dent I think did it once, never again) this guy... not once, on a monthly basis, still doesn't have his bachelors, and he's nowhere near dumb. The irony though is that he has so much promotions, media, event experience, if he wasn't so selfless he could get 150 g to start without finishing school, the size of the events hes more or less done by himself are just extraordinary.

 

Very few people do cool thing's you claim are mind boggling, I have a friend who founded a group that has hundreds of volunteers behind him, Gates has invited him to strategize how to max fundraising.

 

I did a lot of stuff I don't feel helped the community early on, but I founded scholarship for schizophrenics, now I teach refugee youth in summer, much happier… why not do something you enjoy? I'm a huge soccer guy, you can ref, coach younger people, play if you're varsity level or if you're just competitive adult league... or volunteer if your uni is doing a Euro presentation… serious, lol. i realized lots of volunteering sucked cause I didn't like half, so… what should I expect.

 

being part of after school safety patrol… a think many ppl do for dates, or to put crap on cv…. lots of future librarians and teachers do that too, not a biggie. ss well, don't kill yourself, you can not volunteer when you're busy, I didn't till second year… or take a 5 year undergrad, or work a year in between, far less stress, and in later, you get paid.

 

year off… how terrible, i could take a year off after undergrad, get a job in psychometrics, learning advanced stats, interpretation, making 33 an hour, i was offered numerous gov jobs i turned down paying over 50 g a year… my fault, didn't know you could transfer departments quick… but even so, in 4th yr i applied for study abroad… god full scholarship to study in amsterdam… man, what would i do if i didn't get into med... pay 800 for tuition housing and class in Amsterdam… apply next year to mac with their new VR heavy scoring, I got a 13, great shot, plus almost free time Amsterdam… and believe me, no offense to some of the Canadian girls, but Dutch girls are soooo fun (almost all you canadian girls are great too, haha)

 

i also did an nserc, it was easy (i mean relaxing enjoyable, and not overwork at all. i should have got a paper from it, but i had a choice to work less… paper turned out landmark… my fault, i didn't think it would…. honestly, the nserc was really easy, i got challenging work, nice hours, got to study for mcat… which isn't bad, i'm even still friends with the one lab mate there, and some from my individual studies one.

 

i know that's not fair to discuss the awful mcat because i don't get lower than 12 or s in verbal or writing, but, on the other hand, most people don't lower their gpa of interest because when i first ventured into those very obscure classes i was disadvantaged…

 

you can avoid this… try and scrape 11 and be fine… you'll have a better gpa too! see you can't complain about both, if you never take any arts for fear of a poor gpa, vr and ws are harder, if you take arts, and some hits, vr and ws will be very easy, seriously… and bs and ps are learnable in short periods, i knew nothing and still winged 10's on them…

 

i've always wanted to write the mcat again, now that i've learned everything… well not a month b4 i know i'd get 13-15, s or t… but prob improve my bio score from an 11-14, and phys to 10-12 maybe… 34 s min… im thinking more 37S though, i used to know no bio period and got 10, now I have a great background, I'm sure and 12… personally i think higher, from nothing to advanced of chem, bio, 6 advanced bio classes, advanced inorganic, god knows how much physiology, micro, imin… this is all post 10… so well, it's not that bad... is feasible… take ur time n life's easier ;)

 

residency pays 54-75 g (diff provinces are diff, renin knows it here, correct me if it's changed)… this isn't chump change, your gov loans do not go to repayment, you can apply for loan relief… as well as disability payment relief, which means 10 years after school, payments are done, period.

 

Personally, i got 30 g in tax free scholarships a year, got to go on to vacations a yr, never worried about eating a meal… or going home to eat for that matter, my student group was hard and stressful, but my hospital jobs were casual, meaning I chose the hours… personally I don't think getting into med school makes you better or deserving of a better salary.

 

many docs need pay cuts, some need raises...

 

WTF is the BS? your point? How does all that crap you wrote support your point? Are you high?

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God I hate how much Opthamologists make... that's ******* crazy granted it's "gross income" but O/H can't be that much more than a FP running his/her own practice

 

From what I've read, overhead for opthamologists can go up to 60%. Overheads for GPs are typically around 20%.

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my point is life's hard, deal with it, getting into med school is hard, but getting into a program doesn't warrant 300 k salaries, medicine in canada is the only field i can think of where being admitted into a program guarantees a 200 k a year job. i'm saying, i think docs are overpaid... i worked hard in undergrad, but i know people who work harder, go into other fields, do a lot of good, and make much less. i'm sick and tire of whiny premeds thinking they deserve 500 k cause they matched radiology... there's a reason people call medicine safe, because of coherant lobby of the medical establishment to assure wages merely for getting a license. im sorry, i don't care that u have a license, people have drivers licenses, and skill sets vary wildly.

 

honestly, why should we pay all docs equally... my point is, being a doctor doesn't entitle you to ****, getting into med school doesnt either. my point is, at this point, doing medicne is a money drain for me, especially psychiatry, im not taking 180 an hour... not that i mind, i just find it well, objectionable when i see mcmedicine pill pushers bill based on code, with no regard for outcome. ironically, patient centred doctors bill less than their less competant counterparts often. more a message that, you're not entitled to anything, and im sick of this egaletarian all doctors are equal strucutre, they're not, especially in the more nebulous fields. i'd love some sort of payment restructure, seriously, if you're good, you get paid, if you suck, you suck, and your license doesn't mean billing code x entitles you to what someone else bills.

 

i'm more or less tired of the stratification in skill set of physicians, coupled with a comfortable government billing system, give me prescribing rights, and i'd love to do psychology and put my money where my mouth is, with pure patient outcome based remuneration, yup, sorry psyxhopharm cowboys, you suck, and you should get paid like you suck, got an md, cool beans, maybe you clinical efficacy shouldn't suck so much then.

 

WTF is the BS? your point? How does all that crap you wrote support your point? Are you high?
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my point is life's hard, deal with it, getting into med school is hard, but getting into a program doesn't warrant 300 k salaries, medicine in canada is the only field i can think of where being admitted into a program guarantees a 200 k a year job. i'm saying, i think docs are overpaid... i worked hard in undergrad, but i know people who work harder, go into other fields, do a lot of good, and make much less. i'm sick and tire of whiny premeds thinking they deserve 500 k cause they matched radiology... there's a reason people call medicine safe, because of coherant lobby of the medical establishment to assure wages merely for getting a license. im sorry, i don't care that u have a license, people have drivers licenses, and skill sets vary wildly.

 

honestly, why should we pay all docs equally... my point is, being a doctor doesn't entitle you to ****, getting into med school doesnt either. my point is, at this point, doing medicne is a money drain for me, especially psychiatry, im not taking 180 an hour... not that i mind, i just find it well, objectionable when i see mcmedicine pill pushers bill based on code, with no regard for outcome. ironically, patient centred doctors bill less than their less competant counterparts often. more a message that, you're not entitled to anything, and im sick of this egaletarian all doctors are equal strucutre, they're not, especially in the more nebulous fields. i'd love some sort of payment restructure, seriously, if you're good, you get paid, if you suck, you suck, and your license doesn't mean billing code x entitles you to what someone else bills.

 

i'm more or less tired of the stratification in skill set of physicians, coupled with a comfortable government billing system, give me prescribing rights, and i'd love to do psychology and put my money where my mouth is, with pure patient outcome based remuneration, yup, sorry psyxhopharm cowboys, you suck, and you should get paid like you suck, got an md, cool beans, maybe you clinical efficacy shouldn't suck so much then.

 

Psych is the exception in medicine, not the rule. It's a different world than the rest of medicine.

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cool beans, side note to the dude who said to march with your feet in ontario, lol! seriously...

 

The Toronto Sun revealed last week through an access to information request Ontario’s top billing doctor in 2010 made a staggering $6.4 million and that five other physicians pulled in more than $3 million that year.

 

The list of 407 million-plus earners is dominated by cardiologists, radiologists and ophthalmologists.

 

There are 101 radiologists that made seven figures in 2010, along with 77 ophthalmologists and 55 cardiologists. Among the 27 doctors who made more than $2 million that year, 17 were ophthalmologists.

 

 

“Ontario’s (doctors) are the best paid in the country,” she said. “Alberta is close but I can’t imagine that there’s any place else that they could earn more.

 

“Tell me where. There is just nowhere where they will be better compensated.”

 

In a statement last week, OMA president Dr, Doug Weir said the billing data does not represent a doctor’s take home pay — and that many physicians spend up to 40% of their total income on overhead.

 

shoot, what about overhead, 40 percent on a mil a year, with corporate taxes… too, horrible, utter tragedy

 

lets not forget manitobas er docs, making a killing on OT, 60 hrs a week for 400k, sweet deal.

 

Psych is the exception in medicine, not the rule. It's a different world than the rest of medicine.
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shoot, what about overhead, 40 percent on a mil a year, with corporate taxes… too, horrible, utter tragedy

 

lets not forget manitobas er docs, making a killing on OT, 60 hrs a week for 400k, sweet deal.

 

Not sure whether you're being sarcastic or not.. all that was being said is that these figures are deceiving and that net pay in Ontario is not as competitive as other areas esp Stateside depending on the individuals circumstance. There's so much variability here you gotta take all these stats with a grain of salt.

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It amazes me that the premeds on this board are so concerned physician salary and money in general. I'm sure it's a youth thing since I was fairly similar when I was younger and thankfully life has taught me there's way more important things in life than how much one makes. Sure, life is easier with money but it gets to a point where that's your sole focus for a job/career and you will suffer in happiness. Mark my words.

 

If you look back at the thread history since I've been here those that usually bring up physician salary are those on the outside looking in.

 

+1 to aaron ....

 

For all those premeds who want to go into Radiology or Opthma purely for the high rolling lifestyle you may be that guy who blows his head off with one of your guns in your rare gun collection due to depression ... true story, Southern Ontario, a neighbor of a co-worker who was a radiology did himself in and it didnt take a CT scan to see what was his cause of death .... a big fat hole in his head.

 

How about you get into med, find out a few things you actually would love to do, then sort out the lifestyle issues they afford rather than automatically looking for the highest paying specialty and gunning for that just because a few surveys say they make between 500-800k/yr.

 

Money buys stuff and stuff eventually gets boring .... doing something you love doesnt usually get boring and you will still get compensated well by societal standards (200-400k).

 

Beef

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I also have to qualify that I wasn't criticizing medicine with a broad brush: there are numerous specialties I feel deerve every dime they deserve, there are also others well, you can infer from my previous posts.

 

Personally I've met peds neurosurg guys who amazed me, who I have nothing but complete respect for... they absolutely deserve 500 thousand, but please don't argue family docs are getting only 300 k, or that radiologists need 500-600 k. Just because I think salaries in some specialties should be reducd doesnt mean I think docs deserve 60 k, I have no problem with a radiologist making 200-250 k, ditto with opthamologists.

 

+1 to aaron ....

How about you get into med, find out a few things you actually would love to do, then sort out the lifestyle issues they afford rather than automatically looking for the highest paying specialty and gunning for that just because a few surveys say they make between 500-800k/yr.

 

Money buys stuff and stuff eventually gets boring .... doing something you love doesnt usually get boring and you will still get compensated well by societal standards (200-400k).

 

Beef

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It varies a lot on where you work, if you own your own clinic with other neuros and do EMG etc. it'll be more, I know one who works in urgent neuro 2-3 days, another hospital a day a week, and he has virtually none, contrarily, since he's salaried incorporation is harder.

 

What are overhead figures like for neuros?
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medico-legal work, treatment monitoring for professionals ( I know a doc that is mandated to see 3 dentists because of drug use issues by the dental college, this is private billed), disability claims contested by employers are also good ways to can supplement your income.

 

forensic and child and adolescent are also sub-specializations that pay well.

 

people don't know but clinical psych with a neuropsych fellowship pays 120-180 k working in the public system, private system is a lot more, so medicine isn't your only means to cash, lol. as a plus, you get paid 25-30 g a year for 6 years, have little debt. few people know that clinical psych has a number of divisions, cognitive assesments take 8 hrs, done by a psychometrician... you write the report and get a good deal of 1200-1500 for a 15 page report you just had to write up.

 

specializing in things that don't require certification per se (i'll use adhd, but there's a ton i could go on) also allow you to do consultation services (i could do adhd consulting... think of fitness trainers who have no formal education, similar things - you focus on scheduling, nutrition, study methods to maximize efficiency, i could go on... most psych's don't know anything about adhd, let along comprehensive treatment, psychologists do, but well, most people don't have 160 an hour to shell out, lol (where people like me cut in for maybe 35... psychiatrists might work with high end clientelle who are willing to pay high high wages - people think we live in a public system, and we do, kind of, for private wages... working in consulting also can be big pay. don't think like a pre-med, more hours is more money, but so is creativity ;).

 

 

Psych seems to be very undercompensated.
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