Residency in Toronto

[Pantaloons]

Clerks, residents: how is it like doing a residency in Toronto?

 

I've heard the "conventional wisdom" a million times:

- crowded programs with many learners (R1s to super-Fellows)

- you won't get as much mileage early in your training as a result

- residents are less laid back/more gunnery

- residents generally aren't as happy, but put up with it in order to live in Toronto

 

So how much of that conventional wisdom is actually true and how much is bs?

I'm interested in hearing from people who've actually worked in Toronto (core rotation, elective, as a resident).

[1fuzzy2dino3]

Clerks, residents: how is it like doing a residency in Toronto?

 

I've heard the "conventional wisdom" a million times:

- crowded programs with many learners (R1s to super-Fellows)

- you won't get as much mileage early in your training as a result

- residents are less laid back/more gunnery

- residents generally aren't as happy, but put up with it in order to live in Toronto

 

So how much of that conventional wisdom is actually true and how much is bs?

I'm interested in hearing from people who've actually worked in Toronto (core rotation, elective, as a resident).

 

I'm interested in this too. the compiled list is so lolz especially the: "...put up with it in order to live in toronto..."

[NLengr]

Or they just hate Toronto.

 

I have heard complaints about early residency surgical exposure in Toronto. But that's offset by the excellent academic atmosphere. The pluses/minuses are really dependent on your career goals.

[NutritionRunner]

Or they just hate Toronto.

 

Indeed. I hate big cities. I can't imagine ever living in a place like Toronto, or Montreal, or Vancouver. I enjoy visiting those places, but can't imagine working or living there. Just not my style. I'd much rather live in work in places like St. John's, Hamilton, London, etc.

[leviathan]

People who aren't in Toronto, and wish they were there, say they hate Toronto. I think its their way of making their lives feel less miserable.

I don't get what is so great about Toronto. Canadian cities are mostly all pretty boring. Just think of that Simpsons episode when they go to Toronto. Vancouver would be pretty boring too if it wasn't for the beautiful background it's placed in. I've never been to Montreal but that could be one city that actually has some culture.

[A-Stark]

Indeed. I hate big cities. I can't imagine ever living in a place like Toronto, or Montreal, or Vancouver. I enjoy visiting those places, but can't imagine working or living there. Just not my style. I'd much rather live in work in places like St. John's, Hamilton, London, etc.

 

Hamilton isn't especially different from Toronto, except that its downtown is ugly and rundown. London isn't that much better.

 

I was born in Toronto and, well, love it, but I do prefer the size of Halifax. Having said that, TO is fine so long as you don't try to drive there in rush hour. Or you'll end up like this guy:

 

[Apixaban85]

I don't get what is so great about Toronto. Canadian cities are mostly all pretty boring. Just think of that Simpsons episode when they go to Toronto. Vancouver would be pretty boring too if it wasn't for the beautiful background it's placed in. I've never been to Montreal but that could be one city that actually has some culture.

 

I guess it depends what you're looking for in a city. I like Toronto because it's safe, relatively easy to get around for me, is extremely diverse, has just about anything you can imagine wanting to do, and (perhaps I'm bias) everyone is very nice around here for the most part.

[rogerroger]

I don't get what is so great about Toronto. Canadian cities are mostly all pretty boring. Just think of that Simpsons episode when they go to Toronto. Vancouver would be pretty boring too if it wasn't for the beautiful background it's placed in. I've never been to Montreal but that could be one city that actually has some culture.

 

Toronto has so much culture you would need to spend years there to explore it all. Few cities in the world are as diverse and multicultural as Toronto. Maybe a few places in the states... But then you have the strong American flair on everything.

 

All I know is that regardless of which continent or city I'm visiting I am always struck upon my return to Toronto by the unique diversity of the place. This is Toronto's culture. In Toronto I can have real dim sum, go hang out in a independent coffee shop in kingsinton, check out some world class live theatre down in the entertainment district then grab dinner at an Ethiopian place, go out for drinks at a trendy lounge and grab a late night meal at 3AM in little korea.

 

Then the next day I could do it all again yet sample different things like st Lawrence market, waterfront, little Italy, Greek town, little Portugal, china town on Spidina etc.

 

I grew up in a small town. I was not a Toronto fan. Doing med school there converted me. No other place in Ontario comes close to Toronto for convience, culture and lifestyle options. I could only fully appreciate this after living in Toronto for 4 years.

[leviathan]

Toronto has so much culture you would need to spend years there to explore it all. Few cities in the world are as diverse and multicultural as Toronto. Maybe a few places in the states... But then you have the strong American flair on everything.

 

All I know is that regardless of which continent or city I'm visiting I am always struck upon my return to Toronto by the unique diversity of the place. This is Toronto's culture. In Toronto I can have real dim sum, go hang out in a independent coffee shop in kingsinton, check out some world class live theatre down in the entertainment district then grab dinner at an Ethiopian place, go out for drinks at a trendy lounge and grab a late night meal at 3AM in little korea.

 

Then the next day I could do it all again yet sample different things like st Lawrence market, waterfront, little Italy, Greek town, little Portugal, china town on Spidina etc.

 

I grew up in a small town. I was not a Toronto fan. Doing med school there converted me. No other place in Ontario comes close to Toronto for convience, culture and lifestyle options. I could only fully appreciate this after living in Toronto for 4 years.

I'll have to give it a second chance some time. I should make it clear that I don't dislike Toronto, I just didn't see why locals were so obsessed about their city. I also thought the subway system was pretty hilarious, only 2 lines for a city of 5 million!

[Apixaban85]

I'll have to give it a second chance some time. I should make it clear that I don't dislike Toronto, I just didn't see why locals were so obsessed about their city. I also thought the subway system was pretty hilarious, only 2 lines for a city of 5 million!

 

Regarding the subway lines, there's a whole history behind this that even I'm not an expert on. Toronto got into the subway business very late compared to major metropolis cities and hasn't been able to catch up yet. The TTC relies more on the busses to get people to the major subway lines and then these lines service the major population densities in Toronto (for the most part).

 

Most people who live in Toronto truly do like it, but you'll notice more and more people are moving away. I don't think this is due to the city's qualities, but rather things like higher property taxes (relative to other cities I believe) and just generally being a slightly more expensive city to live in.

[Birdy]

I think whether or not one will enjoy living in Toronto depends on their personality. My siblings love it there and both chose to live there with many options available to them, they don't 'put up with it' but actually like living there. I would not. Too big for me.

 

Toronto has so much culture you would need to spend years there to explore it all. Few cities in the world are as diverse and multicultural as Toronto. Maybe a few places in the states... But then you have the strong American flair on everything.

 

All I know is that regardless of which continent or city I'm visiting I am always struck upon my return to Toronto by the unique diversity of the place. This is Toronto's culture. In Toronto I can have real dim sum, go hang out in a independent coffee shop in kingsinton, check out some world class live theatre down in the entertainment district then grab dinner at an Ethiopian place, go out for drinks at a trendy lounge and grab a late night meal at 3AM in little korea.

 

Then the next day I could do it all again yet sample different things like st Lawrence market, waterfront, little Italy, Greek town, little Portugal, china town on Spidina etc.

 

I grew up in a small town. I was not a Toronto fan. Doing med school there converted me. No other place in Ontario comes close to Toronto for convience, culture and lifestyle options. I could only fully appreciate this after living in Toronto for 4 years.

 

That is all well and good, and I'm sure many people enjoy it, but it really isn't for everyone.

 

I'm a country girl. While I've lived in larger cities (Ottawa, Edmonton) I can say I did not enjoy it a great deal. Too many people is my primary complaint, and Toronto would just mean even more. I have cattle and potatoes for neighbours, and I like it that way.

 

Every place has its lovely attributes, but not everyone is suited to enjoying city life, just as many people can honestly say they wouldn't like living in the country. Plus, I think if I were to get into U of T, I may have to sedate my husband just to get him back to Toronto, even for just four years, so staying longer for residency would be way out of the question, lol.

[Savac]

I'll have to give it a second chance some time. I should make it clear that I don't dislike Toronto, I just didn't see why locals were so obsessed about their city. I also thought the subway system was pretty hilarious, only 2 lines for a city of 5 million!

 

Our subway system is horrible. Please don't rub it in.

[1234]

While people think Toronto is convenient, it truly isn't.

 

While things are within a few kilometers, you have to walk or taxi to everything. The public transit system sucks. Can't own a car because parking is too expensive. Thus, you are seemingly stuck in Toronto as well because you likely won't own a car.

[A-Stark]

Transit is better than just about any other Canadian city, and the only systems in North America that are busier are New York and Mexico City. Owning a car is expensive everywhere and unless you plan to drive and park downtown everyday parking isn't bad at all.

[Islandcrazy]

Transit is better than just about any other Canadian city, and the only systems in North America that are busier are New York and Mexico City. Owning a car is expensive everywhere and unless you plan to drive and park downtown everyday parking isn't bad at all.

 

I think your forgetting Montreal's Metro system.

[LittleDaisy]

I think your forgetting Montreal's Metro system.

 

Since I live in Quebec, I would like to say that Montreal has a very complete Metro system with lines reaching almost every major district across the inner city and Longueil:) . Also, the immigrant culture is very diverse in Montreal that more than 50% of Montrealers are immigrants...There, you would be regarded as a Montrealer no matter where your ancesters came from:D Definitely a city comparable to Toronto,plus, it has an exquisite French touch to it:rolleyes:

[Islandcrazy]

Since I live in Quebec, I would like to say that Montreal has a very complete Metro system with lines reaching almost every major district across the inner city and Longueil:) . Also, the immigrant culture is very diverse in Montreal that more than 50% of Montrealers are immigrants...There, you would be regarded as a Montrealer no matter where your ancesters came from:D Definitely a city comparable to Toronto,plus, it has an exquisite French touch to it:rolleyes:

 

 

Montreal Immigration population is actually much less than 50%, right now according to the last census it is 31% for people born in other countries : http://ville.montreal.qc.ca/portal/page?_pageid=6897,67885704&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

[A-Stark]

I think your forgetting Montreal's Metro system.

 

Nope. And driving in Montreal is (amazingly) much worse.

[rogerroger]

While people think Toronto is convenient, it truly isn't.

 

While things are within a few kilometers, you have to walk or taxi to everything. The public transit system sucks. Can't own a car because parking is too expensive. Thus, you are seemingly stuck in Toronto as well because you likely won't own a car.

 

 

The fact that you can walk can't be discounted.

 

Back when I was living a 10 min walk from TGH I could walk to litteraly 100s of resturants, to the Eaton Centre, to 5 hospitals, to the water front, to dozens of parks, to multiple different entertainment venues, to multiple different grocery stores...

 

Now that I'm away from Toronto if I want to grab a darn Tim's coffee I need to get my car or run a half marathon...

 

Don't get me wrong, there are cool things about being outside Toronto, but ease of local transport is not one of them.

[deeman101]

Montreal does have a much better metro system. MUCH. And $40/mnth for students under 26years old. And really if you live close to the Golden Square Mile its usually just better to walk wherever. Driving/parking is next to impossible. But Toronto is a lot more diverse. Mtl is diverse for a big city, but very few cities approach the diversity of Toronto.

[Pantaloons]

Okay, taking a break from the urban planning discussion...

 

...can anyone actually comment on the clinical teaching experience in Toronto?

 

I realize that residencies aren't all the same within Toronto, but I'm curious if anyone can speak from experience about clinical teaching in a large centre (specifically, Toronto).

 

Thanks.

[cheech10]

Depends on the program. I can tell you about my IM experience, but that will be different than the FM/Peds/ER/Surgery/etc experience.

 

The internal medicine program had excellent clinical experience and teaching on the wards, but the half day teaching experience and clinic experience was not as good. Opportunity to perform procedures was average, based on what my colleagues at other schools describe. Subspecialty experiences were mixed, some excellent, some not as good, depending on the specialty and the location. Choosing these rotations with the input of senior residents could mitigate this. Big positives were the availability of research supervisors and mentors for the big subspecialty programs, important for subspecialty residency applications, and the availability of some very specialized programs: transplant, CF, IBD are just some of the programs that have larger volumes than any other site in Canada.

 

It's a mixed bag, just like any other program. If you are interested in heavily specialized niches, the volume and therefore opportunities for experience are top notch. If you are focused on general clinical expertise, any program will train you adequately.

 

As for the city, others have already gone over the main points. One nice thing from my POV: I lived beside the Eaton Centre, so I was <10 minutes walking from TGH/Sinai/PMH/Sick Kids in one direction, and 5 minutes from St Mike's in other, with a quick streetcar ride to TWH, the subway system at my doorstep, and right in the middle of downtown. It was a great lifestyle for my wife and I for the 5 years we lived there.

[1234]

Okay, taking a break from the urban planning discussion...

 

...can anyone actually comment on the clinical teaching experience in Toronto?

 

I realize that residencies aren't all the same within Toronto, but I'm curious if anyone can speak from experience about clinical teaching in a large centre (specifically, Toronto).

 

Thanks.

 

Academically, Toronto is top notch. Its the procedural stuff that is harder to come by because there are more learners.

[1234]

Academically, Toronto is top notch. Its the procedural stuff that is harder to come by because there are more learners.

 

Not as much of an issue with medical professionals. Surgery is a bit different.

[mm88]

While people think Toronto is convenient, it truly isn't.

 

While things are within a few kilometers, you have to walk or taxi to everything. The public transit system sucks. Can't own a car because parking is too expensive. Thus, you are seemingly stuck in Toronto as well because you likely won't own a car.

 

Have you tried living in Halifax? Or Calgary? Where there is no subway (C-train doesn't count since it can still be affected by delays in road traffic) at all and the hours for the buses SUCK?

 

Transit is better than just about any other Canadian city, and the only systems in North America that are busier are New York and Mexico City. Owning a car is expensive everywhere and unless you plan to drive and park downtown everyday parking isn't bad at all.

 

^ +1! I am just now realizing how I took the TTC for granted! Streetcars run 24/7 and there are blue night buses (not very regular but they still exist) that give you options other than cabbing at night.