Official "What are my chances for McMaster" Thread

[DrOtter]

6 minutes ago, Remyelination said:

Hey guys, I'm curious on how much more competitive OOP is. Obviously you're competing for only 10% of the interviews, but I would assume most applicants are from Ontario.

OOP

GPA: 3.93

CARS: 130

Hey there. I applied last cycle with a 3.96 GPA and 130 CARS, with maybe an average CASPer (got into Ottawa), and I didn't get invited for interview. 

So I'd say competition is frickin tough so don't slack on CASPer and practice typing real fast! 

[MedicineLCS]

75% of applicants are from Ontario in Mac's pool each year when averaged over the last couple years (not including the most recent years):

https://bmcmededuc.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12909-020-02126-0/tables/1

Since it's a "maximum of" rather than "10% of" rule you need to be inside the Mac interview score range AND, find yourself in the top 10% of OOP who would get interviews, if that pool is more competitive than the general Ontario pool. It probably is with stronger stats people feeling more comfortable applying OOP and the OOP interview yield rate (assuming that all 10% is used up, if the Ontario IP pool is really competitive one year it may not be, and 5500 applicants and 550 interviews) is ~4%, while the IP yield rate (Removing OOP and same assumptions) is ~12%.  

So what that means is that you need to be a bit more competitive than the average Ontarian, but since CASPer is the key component for everyone there's no reason to be discouraged. I interviewed last year (OOP) with worse stats than yours, almost assuredly on a solid CASPer result. So the only real difference with being OOP is that you should be a little bit more pessimistic about your odds of getting an interview, but if you're around the competitive averages go for it. 

Really, this whole thread is pointless now that we have the SDs from the study above (remembering that the CARs/GPA distributions are skewed). You can use the SDs from the overall applicant pool GPA, CARs, to determine your relative standing in the multiyear pool and you can gauge your odds that way. Your CARs is ~95th percentile in the entire pool, your GPA score ~80th percentile (This is less precise than the CARs score), so use that info as you may to gauge your chances since once you're close to competitive CASPer is the key thing and unlike the GPA/CARs scores it is normally distributed. 

[Remyelination]

50 minutes ago, DrOtter said:

Hey there. I applied last cycle with a 3.96 GPA and 130 CARS, with maybe an average CASPer (got into Ottawa), and I didn't get invited for interview. 

So I'd say competition is frickin tough so don't slack on CASPer and practice typing real fast! 

Damn, that's not what I was looking to hear, but thanks for the info!

[Remyelination]

 

36 minutes ago, MedicineLCS said:

75% of applicants are from Ontario in Mac's pool each year when averaged over the last couple years (not including the most recent years):

https://bmcmededuc.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12909-020-02126-0/tables/1

Since it's a "maximum of" rather than "10% of" rule you need to be inside the Mac interview score range AND, find yourself in the top 10% of OOP who would get interviews, if that pool is more competitive than the general Ontario pool. It probably is with stronger stats people feeling more comfortable applying OOP and the OOP interview yield rate (assuming that all 10% is used up, if the Ontario IP pool is really competitive one year it may not be, and 5500 applicants and 550 interviews) is ~4%, while the IP yield rate (Removing OOP and same assumptions) is ~12%.  

So what that means is that you need to be a bit more competitive than the average Ontarian, but since CASPer is the key component for everyone there's no reason to be discouraged. I interviewed last year (OOP) with worse stats than yours, almost assuredly on a solid CASPer result. So the only real difference with being OOP is that you should be a little bit more pessimistic about your odds of getting an interview, but if you're around the competitive averages go for it. 

Really, this whole thread is pointless now that we have the SDs from the study above (remembering that the CARs/GPA distributions are skewed). You can use the SDs from the overall applicant pool GPA, CARs, to determine your relative standing in the multiyear pool and you can gauge your odds that way. Your CARs is ~95th percentile in the entire pool, your GPA score ~80th percentile (This is less precise than the CARs score), so use that info as you may to gauge your chances since once you're close to competitive CASPer is the key thing and unlike the GPA/CARs scores it is normally distributed. 

Wow, this is great, thank you! I didn't know this info was released

[DrOtter]

2 minutes ago, Remyelination said:

Damn, that's not what I was looking to hear, but thanks for the info!

You might be really good at CASPer for all you know. So don't be too intimidated

But defs practice and be prepared for it. Lots of OOP with comparable stats have gotten interviews through the years so it's definitely doable.

[Remyelination]

1 minute ago, DrOtter said:

You might be really good at CASPer for all you know. So don't be too intimidated

But defs practice and be prepared for it. Lots of OOP with comparable stats have gotten interviews through the years so it's definitely doable.

Any advice on how to best be prepared?

[DrOtter]

1 minute ago, Remyelination said:

Any advice on how to best be prepared?

I learned touch typing to maximize my speed (in the end I think I average around 80wpm) but if you can do better (I have friends who can go 130wpm LOL), that would defs help. Also there's apparently a specific way to CASPer answers - acknowledging multiple perspective while addressing why your decision is defensible. I'd just say do a few scenarios a day leading up to the test. I heard people bringing in their personal experiences too but I wasn't able to do that in the 5-minute time frame (maybe that's why I didn't get Mac) so maybe practice doing that as well?

[premedontheblock]

Hey guys! I was just wondering how to calculate your percentile in the entire pool based on the article's stats? I haven't taken stats yet and I'm not really sure how to look up a tutorial lol. Or alternatively, would you be able to say what a 3.8, 3.7, and 129 CARS are in the entire pool? Tia!! 

[MedicineLCS]

You use the applicant pool SDs (actually found in the appendix of the study) combined with your score/GPA (X) and the applicant pool mean score/GPA (Xbar) using the Z-score formula. z = (x-μ)/σ Zscores can then be converted to percentiles (with assumptions about the distribution of data).

Your GPA percentiles will be about 69th percentile (3.8) or 59th percentile (3.7) with a 90th percentile CARS score. I haven't found a way to calculate a total percentile combined score (assuming certain CASPer scores). 

You can use the following formula, copied into Excel/Sheets, to find your percentiles using Z-scores and the SD. The big caveat is the data is subject to skew (except for CASPer) and the GPA SD seems a bit off. 

https://ethercalc.org/k0u9bsjp7via

[premedontheblock]

1 hour ago, MedicineLCS said:

You use the applicant pool SDs (actually found in the appendix of the study) combined with your score/GPA (X) and the applicant pool mean score/GPA (Xbar) using the Z-score formula. z = (x-μ)/σ Zscores can then be converted to percentiles (with assumptions about the distribution of data).

Your GPA percentiles will be about 69th percentile (3.8) or 59th percentile (3.7) with a 90th percentile CARS score. I haven't found a way to calculate a total percentile combined score (assuming certain CASPer scores). 

You can use the following formula, copied into Excel/Sheets, to find your percentiles using Z-scores and the SD. The big caveat is the data is subject to skew (except for CASPer) and the GPA SD seems a bit off. 

https://ethercalc.org/k0u9bsjp7via

You are amazing thank you so much!!!

[Docodoc123]

Hey guys, 

 

Would love some feedback. 

 

OOP

GPA: 3.85

CARS: 128 

 

When I applied in Manitoba, I was given my CASPER score and I ranked in the first quintile but was waitlisted and did not receive an offer of admission. If those results are replicable, do you guys think I have a shot?

 

Thanks in advance. 

[DrOtter]

1 hour ago, Docodoc123 said:

Hey guys, 

 

Would love some feedback. 

 

OOP

GPA: 3.85

CARS: 128 

 

When I applied in Manitoba, I was given my CASPER score and I ranked in the first quintile but was waitlisted and did not receive an offer of admission. If those results are replicable, do you guys think I have a shot?

 

Thanks in advance. 

Both your GPA and CARS would have been fine with a great CASPer score like yours for an IP application. But most OOP people I've seen who got an interview also have really strong GPA and CARS (3.90+ and 130+).

But apply anyway because at Mac, CASPer is weighed so much more than other schools and your CASPer maybe even higher than "the first quintile" e.g. top 1-5% for example.

[Teddyboi]

Hello,

Have been reading these threads for 18 years.  Yes 18 years and this is my first post.

I have a BCom and MBA both from top Canadian universities, worked in merchant banking and have been practising commercial real estate for the past 6 years, and also running a real estate investment fund as portfolio manager.  My circumstances in life have now allowed me to put me first and allow me to pursue a career path that I have pretty much abandoned because being the bread winner for the family had to come first.  After 2 surgeries, building 2 businesses, learning to live with auto-immune problem, being the primary care giver of an elderly relative, and working with clients who are 90% senior citizens, my life evolved around medicine a lot more than I thought and has led me to rekindle my interest in health and how medicine is an integral part of life. 

Here are my stats:

IP candidate based on residency requirement as defined by McMaster

GPA: 3.0 to 3.4 (yes low GPA)

MCAT: Have not written yet but I would assume I would need 132 (tell me if I am right or if I am wrong)

2 years of volunteering in the hospital ER, had opportunities to shadow doctors when they were doing patient diagnosis (I’m not sure if you’re allowed that now) back in the early 2000s

2 years of volunteering in an old age home

No medical research experience, but have business research experience on building business ventures and actually building said venture.

I’m 36, mature student, which led me to believe that McMaster would give me the best shot.

Thoughts on my chance of getting it while I study for the  CARS.

[offmychestplease]

-

 

[bearded frog]

18 hours ago, Teddyboi said:

I have a ... MBA

IP candidate based on residency requirement as defined by McMaster

GPA: 3.0 to 3.4 (yes low GPA)

MCAT: Have not written yet but I would assume I would need 132 (tell me if I am right or if I am wrong)

Whats your total cumulative undergraduate GPA? That's what Mac uses.

Highlighted the relevant stuff. McMaster posts their admissions statistics. Only 13 people have been accepted in the last 3 years with a GPA less than 3.5 (~3%), and they don't give more detail below that number, so safe to assume they were 3.4 or higherish. Also keep in mind there is an alternate stream they don't separate out that I assume you don't qualify for. Let's assume your total cumulative undergrad GPA is on the high end of your range, 3.4. You get a bonus 1% for your MBA, so with what would essentially be a 0% score in the GPA domain, even if you got 132 CARS and maxed casper you'd be equivalent with someone who had a 67% percentile z score in each domain. Mac only interviews the top 10% of applicants, so even in this unlikely scenario your best possible score isn't very competitive.

The point I'm trying to make is you need to bring  your GPA up. How difficult that is will depend on what your actual cumulative GPA is and how many credits it's distributed over, but if you're dedicated its definitely possible, perhaps in 2-3 semesters of more undergrad. And you can take any classes you want so you can choose the stuff you'd do well in.

[Teddyboi]

Thank you kindly.  Would 2 years of an undergrad as an unclassified student taking on a full course load, 10 courses, be the way to go?

[Teddyboi]

23 hours ago, offmychestplease said:

EC's/experiences are irrelevant for Mac.

With a 3.2 GPA you need at minumum a 131+ CARS AND 95th+ percentile Casper. It is up to you decide if you can achieve BOTH of those things.

Applying with anything less would be wishful thinking that will sadly lead to disappointment. 

Your stats are also too low for any other school in Canada and so you need to complete another undergrad degree to increase your chances at Mac and other schools.

 

5 hours ago, bearded frog said:

Whats your total cumulative undergraduate GPA? That's what Mac uses.

Highlighted the relevant stuff. McMaster posts their admissions statistics. Only 13 people have been accepted in the last 3 years with a GPA less than 3.5 (~3%), and they don't give more detail below that number, so safe to assume they were 3.4 or higherish. Also keep in mind there is an alternate stream they don't separate out that I assume you don't qualify for. Let's assume your total cumulative undergrad GPA is on the high end of your range, 3.4. You get a bonus 1% for your MBA, so with what would essentially be a 0% score in the GPA domain, even if you got 132 CARS and maxed casper you'd be equivalent with someone who had a 67% percentile z score in each domain. Mac only interviews the top 10% of applicants, so even in this unlikely scenario your best possible score isn't very competitive.

The point I'm trying to make is you need to bring  your GPA up. How difficult that is will depend on what your actual cumulative GPA is and how many credits it's distributed over, but if you're dedicated its definitely possible, perhaps in 2-3 semesters of more undergrad. And you can take any classes you want so you can choose the stuff you'd do well in.

Thank you kindly.  So you'd suggest one year as an unclassified student taking 10 courses?

[offmychestplease]

-

[TheFlyGuy]

16 minutes ago, offmychestplease said:

Your best bet is to take a whole new degree all-together, try and do really well for 2-3 years and aim for schools like Queen's, Western, and McGill which would only consider you based on the second undergrad degree. Also, Mac would actually not be out of the question since if you did 3 years of a new degree and got perfect marks in every course, your Mac cGPA would be 3.6 which is much more reasonable with a very high CARS/Casper. 

I’m gonna have to agree with this. If you’re looking for an MD from Ontario your only realistic course of action would be a whole new degree, or at least 2 years of courses you could use for the schools which use the 2 year gpa. Applying as you stand now your odds are unfortunately negligible.

[anonymouspanda]

On 8/21/2020 at 3:49 AM, Teddyboi said:

I’m 36, mature student, which led me to believe that McMaster would give me the best shot.

I would suggest familiarizing yourself with Calgary's admissions process too. They actually look at ECs and life experiences heavily so that could favour you. 

If you do 2 years of full-time undergrad, you can invoke their 10-year exclusion rule so your previous gpa wouldn't count. 

They also look at CARS so if you get a great GPA and CARS, you probably have a great shot at Calgary, even as an out of province applicant.

[Teddyboi]

15 hours ago, anonymouspanda said:

I would suggest familiarizing yourself with Calgary's admissions process too. They actually look at ECs and life experiences heavily so that could favour you. 

If you do 2 years of full-time undergrad, you can invoke their 10-year exclusion rule so your previous gpa wouldn't count. 

They also look at CARS so if you get a great GPA and CARS, you probably have a great shot at Calgary, even as an out of province applicant.

What are your thoughts on UBC.  I'm currently living in BC and would thus qualify as an in-province applicant.  My percentage average of all courses (is that how they do the math?) taken at the undergraduate level is 74.9 (Is God giving me a sign for my poor academic performance all these years ago). Should I consider taking one course as an unclassified student get like 85% and meet the minimum 75?

[anonymouspanda]

12 hours ago, Teddyboi said:

What are your thoughts on UBC.  I'm currently living in BC and would thus qualify as an in-province applicant.  My percentage average of all courses (is that how they do the math?) taken at the undergraduate level is 74.9 (Is God giving me a sign for my poor academic performance all these years ago). Should I consider taking one course as an unclassified student get like 85% and meet the minimum 75?

Not sure if taking one extra course would count towards your gpa since most med schools want full-time studies. Even if it does, meeting the minimum of 75% doesn't mean you will be competitive. Putting all your eggs in one basket by "meeting the minimums" for one med school might not be the most fool-proof approach either. Unfortunately, there's no shortcut to increase your gpa and gpa is a big part of med admissions. Yes, you can get in with a lower gpa but if you really want to maximize your chances at the most number of schools, it might be best to do 2 years of undergrad. 

[Teddyboi]

9 minutes ago, anonymouspanda said:

Not sure if taking one extra course would count towards your gpa since most med schools want full-time studies. Even if it does, meeting the minimum of 75% doesn't mean you will be competitive. Putting all your eggs in one basket by "meeting the minimums" for one med school might not be the most fool-proof approach either. Unfortunately, there's no shortcut to increase your gpa and gpa is a big part of med admissions. Yes, you can get in with a lower gpa but if you really want to maximize your chances at the most number of schools, it might be best to do 2 years of undergrad. 

2 years it is then.  It seems that different schools have different definition for "full course load".  Some say 8 courses over the winter semesters and others have a minimum 6 courses.  When I went thru undergrad, it was 10 courses every year for four years.  What's "standard full course load" for most undergrads now?

[anonymouspanda]

17 minutes ago, Teddyboi said:

2 years it is then.  It seems that different schools have different definition for "full course load".  Some say 8 courses over the winter semesters and others have a minimum 6 courses.  When I went thru undergrad, it was 10 courses every year for four years.  What's "standard full course load" for most undergrads now?

Yeah, 2 years of undergrad would be the best way to become competitive for the most number of schools. 

Full course load requirements do kind of vary by university however what is full course load for a uni is not always a full course for a med school. So, it would be best if you research the med school websites to find out what they consider to be a full course load. That being said, full course load for most med schools is 5 courses per semester for the fall and winter semester so 10 courses in total. Every med school also has slightly different rules for how they weigh summer courses so you would also have to decide if you want to do school in the summers or not. 

[Justwannagetby]

Chances?

 

cGPA (w. summer courses): 3.58

MCAT: 514 (127 CARS)

 

Starting a 2 year undergrad degree this fall. 

 

Hypothetically if I apply this year, with a super good CASPER, is there even a slightest chance of interview?