rmorelan Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Just saw this - interesting. Not sure if it has already been posted. http://www.medicalopedia.org/3946/no-more-imgs-for-residency-training-programs-after-2015-says-journal-of-american-medical-association/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+USMLENews+%28Medicalopedia+USMLE+News%29&noredirect=1#noredirect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Sounds like a game changer that will affect Caribbean schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking1 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Not just Caribbean folks, but also those from Europe and other countries around the world. I have friends whose plan was to do med school after high school in another country, do residency in the USA, then practice in the USA. Sounds like they'll be shafted very soon. Thanks rmorelan for bringing this up, its very informative! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exocytosis Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I wonder what current students are going to do. There are a lot of people already in the hole for 1-2 years of international tuition who just had their career prospects largely shot down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I wonder what current students are going to do. There are a lot of people already in the hole for 1-2 years of international tuition who just had their career prospects largely shot down. Well this change has been a gradual effect of increasing spots - on one hand we have been talking about it for a while so I hope they would have been in the know as it were. Still I haven't though seen it quite so bluntly put before - not with the raw data to back it up. It doesn't say it is impossible for an IMG to match - just that it will continue to get worse and worse and with not even enough spots for the AMGs to match in the US it will seems like a line will be crossed. Work hard people - match in Canada if you can. This IMG stuff is just looking more nasty, and good luck to everyone going down that road - I hope it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medigeek Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Who didn't see this coming? Question is, what are these people gonna do? Default on your loans and work minimum wage after investing the bulk of your 20s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomSmasher19 Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Great. Now CaRMs has even less incentive to be useful. Sounds like a game changer that will affect Caribbean schools. The caribbean has always been a **** hole, this is the last nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned. I know this sucks, but this is a better situation than increasing the number of residency spots. If residency spots were increased, the market would be flooded and we'd all be losers. This is is indicative of the greater problem that medical school seats keep going up. This trend needs to be reversed. I'd be in favour of a freeze on medical school seats. Since regulations aren't going to come from the government, regulations have to come internally, either at the level of # of medical admissions or residency spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Who didn't see this coming? Question is, what are these people gonna do? Default on your loans and work minimum wage after investing the bulk of your 20s? In most cases they cannot default - those loans are co-signed by their parents etc and they have enough equity to actually cover the loans. Someone is going to get hit though one way or the other. Now there are a lot of jobs that you can do with a MD that don't actually involve clinical medicine - although there would probably be flooding of those markets as well. Not bad jobs either - if I wanted to for instance there are jobs in software engineering waiting for someone with a background in med and computer science. It is very similar to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 There's a pretty big bottleneck in the near future, for residency positions in both the USA and Canada. I suspect that given Canada's large, influential immigrant population, the government will keep a smattering of IMG family medicine positions open, but that's it. That being said, its going to be even tougher for CMGs to match as well. The ratio of spots:students was less than 1 when CaRMS was first implemented. Let's see if it goes that way again. I think probably they will just skew things first - simply relatively up the family medicine spots to everything else, giving people no choice but to go into that field - the odds of matching in other fields would be scary enough people will be encouraged to backup or directly go into that field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medigeek Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 In most cases they cannot default - those loans are co-signed by their parents etc and they have enough equity to actually cover the loans. Someone is going to get hit though one way or the other. Now there are a lot of jobs that you can do with a MD that don't actually involve clinical medicine - although there would probably be flooding of those markets as well. Not bad jobs either - if I wanted to for instance there are jobs in software engineering waiting for someone with a background in med and computer science. It is very similar to others. I do believe some loans are not co signed? But yea you're right on that in pretty much every case, some sh*t is going to hit the fan. I don't believe there are *a lot* of jobs that can be done with an MD that aren't actual medicine. There are certainly some fields that take in MDs, but there probably aren't too many spots available. And in the end, paying off 250k in debt will be extremely hard if you're only making 60-70k/year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Henderson Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 I do believe some loans are not co signed? But yea you're right on that in pretty much every case, some sh*t is going to hit the fan. I don't believe there are *a lot* of jobs that can be done with an MD that aren't actual medicine. There are certainly some fields that take in MDs, but there probably aren't too many spots available. And in the end, paying off 250k in debt will be extremely hard if you're only making 60-70k/year.... International Med students LoCs need to be secured, and generally that's through a co-signer unless the student somehow owns a home or has significant assets in Canada. If you're studying in Canada you don't need a co-signer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I do believe some loans are not co signed? But yea you're right on that in pretty much every case, some sh*t is going to hit the fan. I don't believe there are *a lot* of jobs that can be done with an MD that aren't actual medicine. There are certainly some fields that take in MDs, but there probably aren't too many spots available. And in the end, paying off 250k in debt will be extremely hard if you're only making 60-70k/year.... clinical researcher, pharm rep (they love having MDs running around as it creates an instant bond), some parts of the government/public health management, medical equipment sales/managment, all the other management roles etc I mean I don't think that will cover the flood gates but there is a nice number there I guess. Most pay better than 60-70K. Still it will be messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
007antonymous Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Are they including CMGs as part of this IMG pool? Or are CMGs=AMGs for residency matching in the states as it is here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Are they including CMGs as part of this IMG pool? Or are CMGs=AMGs for residency matching in the states as it is here? They are just adding up the number of US medical school spots and directly comparing it to the number of US residency positions. From that they are not separating out CMG in anyway - I believe that would put CMG in the same "pool" as IMG for the sake of analysis regardless of any policies in place. Makes sense CMG is IMG from the perspective of the US after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I've brought this up in the IMG FAQ with an article from NEJM, and it's good to see the point repeated in JAMA. This year has already been a lot tougher for IMGs in the match process, with respect to the number of interviews they're getting, especially considering the very strong applications some of them have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick30 Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 http://www.medicalopedia.org/4111/bill-to-be-introduced-in-congress-to-increase-us-residency-positions/ Found this link. Anyone know the status of this bill? Unfortunately as a mature student with an undergrad in Business I am unlikely to get into any but the Caribbean Medical Schools. I'd hate to blow four years and 150K only to find myself without a residency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edict Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 I just don't think it will pass. It has general bipartisan support, but if you know the US congress and Senate right now, the republicans are unlikely to support anything that would make Obama or the democrats look good/accomplished. I believe the main issue on the table right now is immigration reform, which could affect Canadian citizens who want to move to the US. There has been a prelim proposal to increase H1B slots as well as give a green card to anyone who completes a Masters or PhD in a STEM field in the US. This almost passed, however Dems blocked it because Repubs wanted to eliminate the Green Card Lottery at the same time. AMA is the main lobbying group for docs in DC and they are working on it. The main detractors of this going through is: the government is in debt, America can't really afford to add more residency spots and bipartisan conflict. I wouldn't expect this to pass anytime soon. It may happen in the future but unlikely in the next year or two. The reality is, its not too severe an issue for US grads and IMGs have no representation among the lobbyist class in the US (no money and no votes). The only US grads who care are those gunning for competitive specialties and there never has been much sympathy for that, especially among the US public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunasly Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 I'm curious, but if an international student (not from Canada)completes their undergraduate degree in the U.S. and gets accepted to medical school in the U.S., are they still considered an IMG? In other words, is an IMG defined by whether the medical student completes his or her medical degree in the U.S. or is it defined by whether or not they are a U.S. citizen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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