Hierarchy of clinical experience obtainable without a license

[nauru]

I often hear a variety of words used to describe learning experience related to medicine.

 

Externship

Internship

Observership

Fellowship

Shadowing position

Volunteer position

etc

 

On a practical level, one is not necessarily superior to the other. In writing, however, without knowing a great deal of detail about the given post, which "names" of experience are preferable to the others? Could someone please put them in order?

 

Also please add some to the list if I've missed any.

 

Hope this is clear, thanks!

[Che.Kree]

I often hear a variety of words used to describe learning experience related to medicine.

 

Externship

Internship

Observership

Fellowship

Shadowing position

Volunteer position

etc

 

On a practical level, one is not necessarily superior to the other. In writing, however, without knowing a great deal of detail about the given post, which "names" of experience are preferable to the others? Could someone please put them in order?

 

Also please add some to the list if I've missed any.

 

Hope this is clear, thanks!

 

just an example: IMO the ovservership = shadowing position = learn from only what you see/ask = not too much

 

volunteer = depending on what you exactly you do; I have no idea, for example, what that dude is actually learning, when he is hypocritically smiling to me in the morning, staying in the entrance hall of the hospital... what I definitely know about him is that he proudly put this "experience " in the CV when applying to McGill this year

[nauru]

So those are both at the bottom of the hierarchy then, is that what you're saying?

 

What goes at the middle and the top?

[thehumanmacbook]

So those are both at the bottom of the hierarchy then, is that what you're saying?

 

What goes at the middle and the top?

 

Top = fellowship

[Che.Kree]

I often hear a variety of words used to describe learning experience related to medicine.

 

Externship

Internship

Observership

Fellowship

Shadowing position

Volunteer position

etc

 

On a practical level, one is not necessarily superior to the other. In writing, however, without knowing a great deal of detail about the given post, which "names" of experience are preferable to the others? Could someone please put them in order?

 

Also please add some to the list if I've missed any.

 

Hope this is clear, thanks!

 

well, from my perspective that's something like :

 

1. fellowship (due to specialization you are supposed to apply to)

here we can add - 2. residency

3. internship

4. externship

but, in order to do first you have to pass through 2 ,3 and 4, I think...

 

than comes 5. Observership/shadowing...

 

the volunteer really depends on you... it could be as #6 = close to irrelevant , or even better than externship (e.g. volunteering as representative in your area on the Medical Ethics Board at your hospital)...

 

would like to see other's ideas, though...

[nauru]

Can you actually get a residency without a medical license?

 

(In this thread I'm trying to focus exclusively on clinical experience that can be obtained without a license. )

[Che.Kree]

Can you actually get a residency without a medical license?

 

(In this thread I'm trying to focus exclusively on clinical experience that can be obtained without a license. )

 

nope, but being a resident you wouldn't have a licence in your specialty, and if you are speaking about clinical experience, not from a perspective of med student/resident, your question doesn't make sense,

 

an experience of fellow/intern/extern without a licence would be only an Experience, and NOT clinical experience,

 

you would be only a watcher, which is = to Observer/shadowing, doesn't make sense to speak about internships as well,

 

just tell us, which precise position you consider speaking about the clinical exp. and not being licenced/planning to be?

[nauru]

Right, so this is the premed forum. And my thread is meant to be relevant to other premed folk who are considering how to efficiently allocate the limited time and effort available for the "clinical experience" that some Canadian medical schools explicitly print as a requirement for admission.

 

The set of possible ways to fulfill this requirement is large. Even within a single hospital there are often dozens of distinct roles for volunteers and other unlicensed personnel looking to gain some exposure to the world of medicine. It is rational to consider which positions and experiences will be looked upon more favourably than others, and which positions experiences will be more useful than others -- particularly with respect to the admissions process but also with consideration of later applications for clerkships, residencies and even other things that I'm not yet aware of.

 

TL;DR No specific clinical experience role in mind. Have many options. Want to focus on most valuable ones first, sort of valuable ones next, least valuable ones last. Need to know which are which.

[NutritionRunner]

In terms of volunteer experiences, I have found it greatly depends upon the health care facility that you volunteer with. Some will only allow volunteers cursory involvement with patients. Others allow much greater hands-on opportunities.

 

For example, here are two very different levels of volunteer experience, taken right from a volunteer website:

 

Diagnostic Imaging Volunteer

Volunteers are needed to escort patients/visitors to the appropriate waiting area (MRI, Ultrasound, Mammography, X-ray), provide patients with non-medical pre-exam instructions (ie: what clothes to take off, where gowns are etc.) once they are in the correct waiting area, ensure patients have necessary paperwork easily accessible when they meet with the DI staff, assist in re-stocking the change cubicles with clean gowns as requested by staff, provide warm blankets to patients at request of staff, and sit with patients or family members who may be alone.

 

HELP Volunteer

HELP (Hospital Elder Life Program) gives volunteers a level of patient contact and responsibility that is unique. Volunteers are specifically trained to provide one-to-one assistance in 4 intervention areas: visiting, feeding assistance, early mobilization and therapeutic activities. Volunteers help to create a friendly environment by providing sympathetic support, encouragement and companionship to older patients and their families. During one volunteer shift, volunteers may support 3 or 4 individual patients.

 

 

Right, so this is the premed forum. And my thread is meant to be relevant to other premed folk who are considering how to efficiently allocate the limited time and effort available for the "clinical experience" that some Canadian medical schools explicitly print as a requirement for admission.

 

The set of possible ways to fulfill this requirement is large. Even within a single hospital there are often dozens of distinct roles for volunteers and other unlicensed personnel looking to gain some exposure to the world of medicine. It is rational to consider which positions and experiences will be looked upon more favourably than others, and which positions experiences will be more useful than others -- particularly with respect to the admissions process but also with consideration of later applications for clerkships, residencies and even other things that I'm not yet aware of.

 

TL;DR No specific clinical experience role in mind. Have many options. Want to focus on most valuable ones first, sort of valuable ones next, least valuable ones last. Need to know which are which.

[Che.Kree]

Right, so this is the premed forum. And my thread is meant to be relevant to other premed folk who are considering how to efficiently allocate the limited time and effort available for the "clinical experience" that some Canadian medical schools explicitly print as a requirement for admission.

 

The set of possible ways to fulfill this requirement is large. Even within a single hospital there are often dozens of distinct roles for volunteers and other unlicensed personnel looking to gain some exposure to the world of medicine. It is rational to consider which positions and experiences will be looked upon more favourably than others, and which positions experiences will be more useful than others -- particularly with respect to the admissions process but also with consideration of later applications for clerkships, residencies and even other things that I'm not yet aware of.

 

TL;DR No specific clinical experience role in mind. Have many options. Want to focus on most valuable ones first, sort of valuable ones next, least valuable ones last. Need to know which are which.

 

look..., even you realize that your question is too general for expecting a precise answer when you mention - ...see the bold part in your message;

 

I can't state more clear than I did in my previous first and second replies, anyways, the value of your experience is up to you to determine: you could have a research assistant full-time experince for 2 years and be sick and tired about it, but volunteering for a few hours/week in a reab. centre and be just amazed about what you are doing - and that would be the way you would speak about it in the interview...

[silvantes]

OK, so you cannot do a lot of clinical until you are in med school.

What you can do is:

Volunteer or Shadow

Shadowing a doctor would probably be best as you are getting more a feel for things than just Volunteering to push people around or direct visitors. Also it is quite hard to get a Doctor to allow shadowing if you aren't in med school unless you have connections or a really nice Doctor.

There are also other opportunities as well.

I have not volunteered at a hospital or shadowed a doctor. I got my medical first responder certification through St. John ambulance which did not take long at all, it does cost but once you get it you volunteer with them and patrol local events, etc. you also do alot of follow-up training and role-playing scenarios on how to treat injuries, accidents, disasters, etc.

you could also get the medical first responder or more basic first aid and volunteer at a care home, nursing home or some sort of home for the ill.

Whatever suits you, check it out.

 

Hope this helps

[nauru]

Okay thanks, that is helpful.

[apache]

hmm, working in the mental hospital, and continuing care... shift plan meetings with supervising psych, chatting it up on acute impatient... nurses and psych's asking for your advice on how patient x has been today, since you have more interaction time, in total... not to mention, geris, every scope of forensics, mental retardation (sorry, dont know politically correct term), acute intake, and on... that's pretty clinical, i'd go into continuin care but u get point

 

oh, and i got paid like 22 an hour, double i think for ot... thats 510 for evening shift, and like, study session nite shift... study session everyday if u got certain forensics shifts, lol

 

look..., even you realize that your question is too general for expecting a precise answer when you mention - ...see the bold part in your message;

 

I can't state more clear than I did in my previous first and second replies, anyways, the value of your experience is up to you to determine: you could have a research assistant full-time experince for 2 years and be sick and tired about it, but volunteering for a few hours/week in a reab. centre and be just amazed about what you are doing - and that would be the way you would speak about it in the interview...

[Mourning Cloak]

mental retardation (sorry, dont know politically correct term)

 

Most of us use "developmental delay".

 

I don't like the term mental retardation if only because it's a confusing abbreviation e.g. does my 86 y.o.f with DM, PVD and severe MR here for L BKA have a bad heart or not?

[apache]

read your signature, and transpose... haven't had a coffee today, for real... lol, i know... tell me.....

 

How can you not know this?

[Mourning Cloak]

read your signature, and transpose

 

I don't understand anything you write! Transpose what to what?

 

I often hear a variety of words used to describe learning experience related to medicine.

 

Externship

Internship

Observership

Fellowship

Shadowing position

Volunteer position

etc

 

On a practical level, one is not necessarily superior to the other. In writing, however, without knowing a great deal of detail about the given post, which "names" of experience are preferable to the others? Could someone please put them in order?

 

Anyways, to answer the original question, there is very little clinical experience that can be gained without having a medical license. Even as a medical student, you need an educational license from the province in which you are planning to do electives; in other words, externship / internship / residency / fellowship all requires you to have some sort of licensure from your province.

 

Basically, all you can do without a license of some sort (e.g. prior to medical school) is volunteer / observe (shadow) a physician. Of the two, I think that volunteering is probably better - it shows some sort of initiative and involvement. You have to actually do something as a volunteer - as an observer, you are as intangible and ephemeral as a shadow, and probably about as pointless. Note that it doesn't have to be medical volunteering - the characteristic the adcoms are trying to gauge with your volunteer history is your MATURITY and LEADERSHIP skills - are you a self-starter, intelligent, self-reliant? How challenging was your volunteer position? How much responsibility did you take on? What did you achieve? It's more about what sort of a person you are, rather than how much hospital exposure you've had.

 

The hospital exposure will come. What they can't change (easily) is you.

[m30wc0w]

I don't understand anything you write! Transpose what to what?

 

 

 

Anyways, to answer the original question, there is very little clinical experience that can be gained without having a medical license. Even as a medical student, you need an educational license from the province in which you are planning to do electives; in other words, externship / internship / residency / fellowship all requires you to have some sort of licensure from your province.

 

Basically, all you can do without a license of some sort (e.g. prior to medical school) is volunteer / observe (shadow) a physician. Of the two, I think that volunteering is probably better - it shows some sort of initiative and involvement. You have to actually do something as a volunteer - as an observer, you are as intangible and ephemeral as a shadow, and probably about as pointless. Note that it doesn't have to be medical volunteering - the characteristic the adcoms are trying to gauge with your volunteer history is your MATURITY and LEADERSHIP skills - are you a self-starter, intelligent, self-reliant? How challenging was your volunteer position? How much responsibility did you take on? What did you achieve? It's more about what sort of a person you are, rather than how much hospital exposure you've had.

 

The hospital exposure will come. What they can't change (easily) is you.

 

Lol Muse can be very vague at times. Sort of like some old sage, living in a cove on a forgotten beach who hasn't seen another person for 2 years and smells like saltwater and crab juice.

[apache]

that would be funny, except the non-muse, real person, is someone you imagine in your mind... and dislike, and and it's fun to pretend i'm socially inept, ugly, and idiotic... why not, you dislike me... but the fact that i'm the opposite of all three... so do i give a **** at all, seriously... meowcow likes to insult me often, like a petty *****... simple

 

Lol Muse can be very vague at times. Sort of like some old sage, living in a cove on a forgotten beach who hasn't seen another person for 2 years and smells like saltwater and crab juice.

[nauru]

well, from my perspective that's something like :

 

1. fellowship (due to specialization you are supposed to apply to)

here we can add - 2. residency

3. internship

4. externship

but, in order to do first you have to pass through 2 ,3 and 4, I think...

 

than comes 5. Observership/shadowing...

 

the volunteer really depends on you... it could be as #6 = close to irrelevant , or even better than externship (e.g. volunteering as representative in your area on the Medical Ethics Board at your hospital)...

 

would like to see other's ideas, though...

 

Thanks for your comment, very informative. Are there any examples you can think of that you would consider better than externship? Or at least better than observership/shadowing? (Bearing in mind the restrictions that come with not having any kind of medical or health care license.)

 

Also, what is the difference between internship, externship, and clerkship?

[future_doc]

Volunteering can be very important to an applicant. For example, being with St. John Ambulance or doing EMS, which is available in Quebec, gives you firsthand experience in dealing with trauma patients under emergency conditions.

[nauru]

Volunteering can be very important to an applicant. For example, being with St. John Ambulance or doing EMS, which is available in Quebec, gives you firsthand experience in dealing with trauma patients under emergency conditions.

 

Hmm... I've heard really mixed reviews of this organization. Some people seem to have a really negative opinion of it, which is partly why I've looked elsewhere first. Also doesn't it cost several hundred dollars to do? (mandatory courses, uniforms and other fees up front, none of which are covered)

[future_doc]

That organization aside, in Montreal it is possible to do EMS responding to 911 calls, e.g., auto accidents, fall or heart attacks in the Mall and responding to trauma patients at their homes.

[apache]

you could also take a short first responder course too... another person on here, jochi wrote a lot about it... that would be pretty cool experience

 

yeah, that's a great suggest f_d

 

Volunteering can be very important to an applicant. For example, being with St. John Ambulance or doing EMS, which is available in Quebec, gives you firsthand experience in dealing with trauma patients under emergency conditions.

[Capucine]

Hmm... I've heard really mixed reviews of this organization. Some people seem to have a really negative opinion of it, which is partly why I've looked elsewhere first. Also doesn't it cost several hundred dollars to do? (mandatory courses, uniforms and other fees up front, none of which are covered)

 

I'm in St John Ambulance and no, it doesn't cost you that much. It depends where you volunteer, each division has its own way of doing thing. But mine ask volunteer to pay their one first aid class (100$) + shirt (15$) + black pants (you buy those wherever you want). Then we get the first responder class for free... I never paid anything since my first year there 6 years ago. I really like volunteering with them. In fact it's what made me think about going in medicine in the first place.

 

Contact your local St John Ambulance division, they'll tell you if you have to pay for anything.