Scotia vs. RBC LOC

[Leon]

Man this sucks. Thanks for giving us all a heads up though Leon, really appreciate it.

 

When do we have to pay tuition? I'm going to commute so my expenses won't be that bad, but I definitely don't have the money to pay tuition without the LOC. And if we're getting it after class starts, that means that we'll have to pay interest on our tuition (and we come out the sorer loser)...

 

Anyone got any advice on this? :S or am I wrong about the tuition part?

 

Defer with OSAP as schmitty said, or pay once tuition shows up on ROSI using your LOC. You'll be paying a bit of interest (about $50 a month) on the tuition but at least once it shows up on ROSI you will get unrestricted access to your LOC.

 

If you defer with OSAP, I believe you have until November to make payments- after November, ROSI itself will start charging interest on outstanding tuition. The ideal scenario is defer with OSAP in August and pay it all from your OSAP + LOC in November to minimize interest payments.

[Clover_236]

Leon did you get your RBC Loan for U of T from their University/Dundas branch? I was wondering what credit card you got from them?

 

I thought I’d get the infinite avion but instead they sent me the platinum in the mail. I don’t particular care except that the infinite has travel insurance and given that I travel a lot that was a big bonus for me.

[Leon]

Leon did you get your RBC Loan for U of T from their University/Dundas branch? I was wondering what credit card you got from them?

 

I thought I’d get the infinite avion but instead they sent me the platinum in the mail. I don’t particular care except that the infinite has travel insurance and given that I travel a lot that was a big bonus for me.

 

I spoke with that branch, yes, but didn't sign yet. If they don't release funds till August then I'm not going to bother signing till August either. I haven't really looked into their cards yet. Try talking to the reps? They seem really friendly and if you haven't activated the Platinum yet, they should be willing to give you the Infinite.

[Merquise]

Leon did you get your RBC Loan for U of T from their University/Dundas branch? I was wondering what credit card you got from them?

 

I thought I’d get the infinite avion but instead they sent me the platinum in the mail. I don’t particular care except that the infinite has travel insurance and given that I travel a lot that was a big bonus for me.

 

Is it the platinum avion you were given and an infinite avion you were offered? My representative has been adamant on only providing the Signature. Are the travel cards something the University/Dundas branch is offering or are they something you had to persuade them to give you?

[dazzle]

I've just used the aid estimator on OSAP (Ontario Financial Aid) and the figure I am left with is not astronomical. Why do people end up taking such huge loans? Seems disproportionate to the amount that is left over from financial aid.

[rmorelan]

I've just used the aid estimator on OSAP (Ontario Financial Aid) and the figure I am left with is not astronomical. Why do people end up taking such huge loans? Seems disproportionate to the amount that is left over from financial aid.

 

Not sure I understand the question

 

You would logically take as much as you can as it is all interest free - as opposed to anything else you would get - and also you don't pay back anything over 7300 for a standard year (clerkship is often 12 months so the amount you get is raised but so is the the ceiling as to what you have to pay back).

[Leon]

Not sure I understand the question

 

You would logically take as much as you can as it is all interest free - as opposed to anything else you would get - and also you don't pay back anything over 7300 for a standard year (clerkship is often 12 months so the amount you get is raised but so is the the ceiling as to what you have to pay back).

 

I think they mean "why do people take out such huge LOCs when OSAP gives you so much?"

 

Personally I prefer having access to a pool of cash at prime for future purposes. I think most people manage to graduate with less than half their LOC used up but it's there for safety reasons and because banks trust that a medical student is a worthy investment who will almost certainly mean good business.

[schmitty]

I think they mean "why do people take out such huge LOCs when OSAP gives you so much?"

 

Personally I prefer having access to a pool of cash at prime for future purposes. I think most people manage to graduate with less than half their LOC used up but it's there for safety reasons and because banks trust that a medical student is a worthy investment who will almost certainly mean good business.

 

True, plus a lot of people who are in financial need aren't see as such by OSAP. For example, I am married and my wife works so I will get a few small amount of OSAP (couple thousand) and no bursaries. I will still obviously need the LOC for the $25K or so per yera in medical school expenses that obviously my wife's income alone cannot cover on top of our usual bills.

[rmorelan]

I think they mean "why do people take out such huge LOCs when OSAP gives you so much?"

 

Personally I prefer having access to a pool of cash at prime for future purposes. I think most people manage to graduate with less than half their LOC used up but it's there for safety reasons and because banks trust that a medical student is a worthy investment who will almost certainly mean good business.

 

ahh that would make sense - first off you get the LOC I guess at the amount they standardly give as you mention and you don't have to use it. Also the fraction of your available credit used is a factor in your credit score - it is better to owe 10K on a 20K LOC than 10K on a 10K LOC for instance. Also you can in theory use the additional unused LOC in the future to absorb your OSAP loan before you have to pay interest on it - which would be at a higher rate, and you can even use it at some banks to fund the down payment on a mortgage as well.

[Leon]

True, plus a lot of people who are in financial need aren't see as such by OSAP. For example, I am married and my wife works so I will get a few small amount of OSAP (couple thousand) and no bursaries. I will still obviously need the LOC for the $25K or so per yera in medical school expenses that obviously my wife's income alone cannot cover on top of our usual bills.

 

ahh that would make sense - first off you get the LOC I guess at the amount they standardly give as you mention and you don't have to use it. Also the fraction of your available credit used is a factor in your credit score - it is better to owe 10K on a 20K LOC than 10K on a 10K LOC for instance. Also you can in theory use the additional unused LOC in the future to absorb your OSAP loan before you have to pay interest on it - which would be at a higher rate, and you can even use it at some banks to fund the down payment on a mortgage as well.

 

Yes exactly. I'm lucky to be able to receive OSAP but that itself is a loan and I will likely owe around 50K to OSAP once I graduate (factoring in undergraduate BSc debt). Their interest rates are insane compared to the LOC so I intend to absorb OSAP into the LOC at the time.

 

Plus it's impossible to say where you will be in 4 years. I think it's wise to apply for and accept such a substantial LOC when it's offered- there is no harm in having a safe reservoir unless you're terrible at spending and can't trust yourself!

 

Update to those interested: The Hamilton branch of RBC also requires proof of enrollment now (offer letter is insufficient).

[rmorelan]

Not really related to the existing discussion, but

 

when is a good time set up the LOC? Whenever I feel like or need one?

 

You can set it up later but probably better to get it earlier unless you are afraid you will do something silly with the credit.

[distressedpremed]

Hey U of T related question - if you don't have a ROSI or a U of T student number, should you ask the med office for one?

 

I checked the U of T 1T7 facebook page and apparently you can get some sort of proof for LOC....

[Leon]

Hey U of T related question - if you don't have a ROSI or a U of T student number, should you ask the med office for one?

 

I checked the U of T 1T7 facebook page and apparently you can get some sort of proof for LOC....

 

You could try but I don't think they'll do it. They keep insisting registration is on August 26 and nothing can be done before that.

 

The info on FB....it's basically a confirmation that the $1000 deposit has been credited to your account. I don't think it will help- when I asked the banks whether a copy of the deposit cheque would help, they said $1K is nothing compared to $250K and that it's not enough proof so I don't think the ROSI confirmation of the deposit will be of any help. I'm still talking to various branches and may have some success soon. If I do, I'll post the relevant information here.

[distressedpremed]

You could try but I don't think they'll do it. They keep insisting registration is on August 26 and nothing can be done before that.

 

The info on FB....it's basically a confirmation that the $1000 deposit has been credited to your account. I don't think it will help- when I asked the banks whether a copy of the deposit cheque would help, they said $1K is nothing compared to $250K and that it's not enough proof so I don't think the ROSI confirmation of the deposit will be of any help. I'm still talking to various branches and may have some success soon. If I do, I'll post the relevant information here.

 

I will vote for you, if you run, for med student council treasurer/finance officer.

 

You're the best Leon!

[Clover_236]

Is it the platinum avion you were given and an infinite avion you were offered? My representative has been adamant on only providing the Signature. Are the travel cards something the University/Dundas branch is offering or are they something you had to persuade them to give you?

 

When we were discussing the loc, the rep mentioned Avion and I never clarified if it was platinum or infinite so I cant really blame them for sending me the wrong card

I was offered the Avion with fee waived for one year, it was part of the package at that branch, didn't have to negotiate or anything but I do recall something about the rep claiming that the Avion offer is unique to that branch.

[RBC-HealthcareSpecialist]

Has anyone been able to secure a LOC yet? Both Scotia and RBC are refusing to allow access to funds until proof of enrollment- which UT doesn't provide until August. Apparently policies have become more strict and the offer letter is insufficient.

 

I spoke to professionals who deal with medical student LOCs.

 

 

Acceptance letters are sufficient with proof of deposit made.

[muhgel]

rmorelan, would you have considered buying earlier? the rents that you have paid in the past four years could have gone into (partly) the principal payment of the mortgage?

 

thoughts?

 

You can get a mortgage for less than 3%. I just got offered one for instance at 2.79%. The LOC prime rate is NOT the lowest mortgage a med student or resident can get. Once again we have a insanely good advantage there.

 

Side note - that was on top of my LOC - so I have both the option of a full LOC of 275K now and a full mortgage up to a rather high amount as well.

[schmitty]

rmorelan, would you have considered buying earlier? the rents that you have paid in the past four years could have gone into (partly) the principal payment of the mortgage?

 

thoughts?

 

Actually, if you do the math, very little of those four years of mortgage payments would have gone to principle. And since he is now moving and would likely sell, the chance that the place would appreciate in value enough to cover the 6-7 percent closing costs for selling, plus the maintenence, taxes, insurance, etc in four years is very low. Yes, one could rent it out but this is a lot of work and stress that is exacerbated by being in a far away city.

[Leon]

Actually, if you do the math, very little of those four years of mortgage payments would have gone to principle. And since he is now moving and would likely sell, the chance that the place would appreciate in value enough to cover the 6-7 percent closing costs for selling, plus the maintenence, taxes, insurance, etc in four years is very low. Yes, one could rent it out but this is a lot of work and stress that is exacerbated by being in a far away city.

 

That's what I felt too. Unless you put down a significant down payment, which would minimize monthly mortgage and interest, I think the return from such an investment is likely not very high.

[schmitty]

That's what I felt too. Unless you put down a significant down payment, which would minimize monthly mortgage and interest, I think the return from such an investment is likely not very high.

 

Yeah for the most part. A lot depends on the the specific circumstances and market. For example, my wife and I bought our place in 2009 when the market was low and everybody was scared. It was also not renovated and quite old... We were able to do all the renoes ourselves and thus we would make money if we sold now (almost 4 years). However, that is more a matter of timing and renovations, both if which are very difficult when in med school or residency I would think.

[rmorelan]

Yeah for the most part. A lot depends on the the specific circumstances and market. For example, my wife and I bought our place in 2009 when the market was low and everybody was scared. It was also not renovated and quite old... We were able to do all the renoes ourselves and thus we would make money if we sold now (almost 4 years). However, that is more a matter of timing and renovations, both if which are very difficult when in med school or residency I would think.

 

It all depends on how much the house will go up in value - and that is the risk. With five years, residency periods shall we say, you start getting hard to tell what you what do to - there are two sets of closing costs which is anything but cheap, and there are some questions about the market in the near future (what happens when interest rates rise? Will the market get an increased supply?). Plus it is generally harder to find an identical place to buy as you would rent - costs can go up just because of that often (the sort of condos I would buy close to the hospitals all seem better than the apartments).

 

Even now at residency with an insanely low interest rate and an actual 5 year min job to back it up I am sitting on the fence on buying. The mortgage I am preapproved for is quite large actually

[rmorelan]

rmorelan, would you have considered buying earlier? the rents that you have paid in the past four years could have gone into (partly) the principal payment of the mortgage?

 

thoughts?

 

I did look at it but didn't buy - there were a few reasons for this

 

a) I would have lost out of about 25K in OSAP grants, plus would have paid more interest on top of that as I would have had to use my LOC more.

I would have lost out on a very valuable bursaries that depend on assets and getting OSAP etc - another 20K

c) The cost of selling would destroy much of the raise in property values in London over the last 4 years. London is not TO of course - it was a much more depressed area due to the auto makers difficulties. It is doing better now but even so rises are estimated at 2% a year overall by the real estate board. TO of course rose more BUT now we have to wonder if there is a real estate bubble going on - interest rates are set to rise, condos are still going up like crazy etc. You know on some level the entire buy low sell high thing constantly jumps to mind - when I see a lot of people rushing to buy something it makes me nervous I want to buy when they are running away from something

d) In terms of space needs it would be hard to buy a place that was equivalent to renting. For instance I rented a nice basement apartment (had a fire place ) for 600 including everything. It was close to campus. The minimum condo would have had interest costs on the mortgage well above 600 a month, plus there is insurance, utilities I wasn't paying....I mean it would have been a better place to live - all to myself etc, but would simply cost more. The price you pay.

e) There was the shear pain in the ass factor of selling, potentially finding maybe roomates - and remember that during 4th year you are way often for months at a time - absent landlord - ha

 

I did the math, and for me it was cheaper and more flexible to rent. 4 years is a pretty quick turn around for real estate (you do not pay off much principal in the first 4 first on the loan - most payments go to interest - principal is paid off more at the end of things.

[rmorelan]

May I ask why one would want to absorb the OSAP onto the LoC after medical school?

 

There are these interest relief programs for residents in Ontario... and then one could easily absorb the outstanding OSAP principal amount onto the LoC (if there's room) as residency ends during that 1 year grace period on the LoC?

 

You start owing interest on OSAP when you start residency - the interest on OSAP is higher then LOC.

 

There are interest relief programs with the condition that requires you to stay in the province for five years after residency. For some specialties that is restrictive - what if you get a good job in Vancouver (ha- popular choice). Any other province? What about the US? The more specialized you are the move likely the openings will be in another part of the country.

 

For me this is actually the big fear - I cannot be sure the type of radiologist I want to be will have the best job in Ontario. Maybe I could get a job but not the BEST job (and the differences in income or flexibility depending on site would easily be worth more than the interest on the LOC).

 

So it is a choice - and one that each student has to make computing the probability of remaining in the province, the cost they pay for being tied down (psychologically that just bugs some people), and cost of the interest on the loan etc

[lalab]

For some specialties that is restrictive - what if you get a good job in Vancouver (ha- popular choice). Any other province? What about the US? The more specialized you are the move likely the openings will be in another part of the country.

 

 

Ah I never thought of it that way / or that far ahead.

 

Sidenote: Vancouver is a nice place but it's really expensive to buy property there.

[rmorelan]

Ah I never thought of it that way / or that far ahead.

 

Sidenote: Vancouver is a nice place but it's really expensive to buy property there.

 

yeah - nothing like Vancouver to make you think your income isn't high enough. One weird thing about medicine is your rate is the same regardless of where you are in a province. Cost of living thus can have a huge impact on your lifestyle

 

Once you get to around clerkship is amazing how far a head you are looking - I mean this is basically the only or at least main job you will ever have, and that job will define where you, and likely where your potential partner will work etc. I am currently on a ten year planning phase I guess (year 2 in).