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Chiropractor as a backup?


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Lets face it med school is a long journey and we might not all make it even after numerous cycles and life has to go on. Although I am writing the mcat this summer i feel safe to say i need a backup if i do not make it after two cycles.

 

So what does everyone think about Chiro as a backup. i am interested because i am interested in the human body and its well being. In addition, i feel that both would be rewarding careers.

 

My analysis: personally i had a better experience seeing a chiropractor than a PT. Chiro helped me with my lower back pain, and shoulder pain never better since. my spine felt like it was grinding on some bone or something whenever i cracked it.

 

 

Chiro

-4 yrs

-covered under extended health insurance

-more spine emphasis

-seems to be over saturated in the GTA

-evidence based practice in Canada

 

 

so what does everyone think about being a chiropractor? also i do not get what everyone says about chiropractors not being a real doctor, i thought they are one of the 5 recognized doctors in ontario

 

 

P.S I am a bit turned off from dental school because of the uber high tuition costs, the competition, start up cost for a practice, and having to write the DAT

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I think some chiropractors are no better than snake oil salespeople, but some (who don't think adjustments can cure everything) can help those with back issues, but so can physiotherapists/physical therapists.

 

I've been very anti-chiropractor ever since a friend of mine suffered a stroke after having her cervical spine manipulated by a chiropractor. And yes, it was due to the chiropractor's actions. She was young, fit, a marathon runner, and had just been accepted for training as a police woman. She was having some back pain from her running, so went to see a chiropractor. He adjusted her back, and immediately afterwards she suffered a stroke. Fortunately, it was a fairly minor stroke (as far as these things go), so she didn't suffer a lot of permanent dysfunction, but she still had to go through rehabilitation and had to withdraw from police training.

 

I suffered a compression fracture of one of the vertebrae in my lumbar spine. I went to a physio for my rehab, and when my back has acted up, I've gone back to physio. They've always been able to help improve my function and decrease my level of pain. I've never personally seen a chiro, but I've heard (and read) enough to think that too many of them are quacks.

 

For example, my sister (and we have numerous heated arguments about this) is convinced that the chiropractor she (and my niece) see, has helped my niece's ADD. I'm sorry, I don't see how adjusting the spine could help ADD. The same goes for chiros that claim they can "cure" everything from ear infections to depression.

 

My physiotherapy has always been covered by my extended health insurance plans.

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chiro is also covered under extended health insurance plans. also i find PT to not be effective

 

1st one: TMJ, he put some electictic pads on my jaw and that was suppose to break up scar tissue...gave me excercises like opening and closing my mouth very slowly...wanted to me to say for treats for months and to see him when i am back in town because i commute for uni

 

2nd one: nice guy gave me ultrasound (electric pads) and ice for my injury didn't really do much

 

I know PT is only 24months but i can't do a profession i do not believe in

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Just like any profession, including medicine. There are good ones and bad ones. I am with nutritionrunner though, the majority of chiro's I know are selling products and/or services that are way beyond there scope of practice. Ie nutrition, wellness, athletic training etc.... I guess the market forced them to take on things remain in business. Further, part of their education is learning how to market etc.... I don't know if I'm a big fan of that approach.

 

I have had a lot of bad experiences with physios, more so then good ones. You really have to do your homework and find one that knows what the f they are talking about and specializes in your injury. For example, I have had far more success with musculoskeletal injuries seeing an athletic therapist (although almost never covered) who specializes in sports rehab etc... and getting you or an athlete back into the game. As opposed to most physios will do the "do no harm" harm thing and tell you to rest. Oddly enough that's the advice most GPs give when presented with muskuloskeletal stuff.

 

I'd say 5% of chiros are useful. Maybe 25% of physios and only if they are practicing within a niche.

 

My 2 cents. But like anything, do your homework get referrals and find the best health care provider for you.

 

My mom swears by her chiro and been seeing him for decades......drives me nuts when it is covered by her insurance plan and "adjustments" are 50-100 bucks a pop but yet I can't get her to pay that for a good personal trainer etc...

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so what does everyone think about being a chiropractor? also i do not get what everyone says about chiropractors not being a real doctor, i thought they are one of the 5 recognized doctors in ontario

 

 

 

I think a highly skilled chiropractor can legitimately give someone symptomatic relief from various muskuloskeletal pain (that's probably the highest praise you'll ever hear about the profession from any physician).

 

Chiropractors aren't medical doctors. They don't have an MD, and when the average person hears "doctor", most will think of their family physician, a surgeon, and maybe even their dentist, but a chiropractor? No. Same for optometrists and naturopathic doctors. I honestly don't even know why those latter two programs require 4 years; it's most likely just to make it consistent with the duration of an MD degree.

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I think a highly skilled chiropractor can legitimately give someone symptomatic relief from various muskuloskeletal pain (that's probably the highest praise you'll ever hear about the profession from any physician).

 

Chiropractors aren't medical doctors. They don't have an MD, and when the average person hears "doctor", most will think of their family physician, a surgeon, and maybe even their dentist, but a chiropractor? No. Same for optometrists and naturopathic doctors. I honestly don't even know why those latter two programs require 4 years; it's most likely just to make it consistent with the duration of an MD degree.

 

I always wonder why is optometry not in medicine 9same for dentistry and podiatry), but atleast, I can apply into OD (opto) as a back-up (if I find it interesting) :P

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Guest Physioprospect

I agree with people on here. Like any profession there are terrible practitioners and amazing ones. I went to my GP for a sinus infection, left with a perscripting for pain killers, anti depressents and T3's???? So went to another GP and took the time to figure out what was going on. Your going to have this issue in every field. A lot of the bad PT's are old and were trained when OT and PT were a combined degree. There are PTs who specialize in manual therapy and can do all the adjustments that a Chiro can do but are usually much more selective in there use of them and usually follow it up with an exercise program to correct the root of the problem. I have had chiros adjust my back then send me on my way only to end up there a couple weeks later for round 2. My friends have had awesome experiences with Chiros as well. The thing about chiro is, is that it is 4 years with a lot of stuff you will NEVER use, all the biochem etc and very expensive.. where as PT is a jam packed 2 years straight of all the stuff you need then you can specialize post grad. There are tons of jobs for PT's, depending on location. Chiros also have the highest probability of faulting on their student loans. If you are interested in that field I would highly reccomend PT. They seem to be more respected in the health care community and use an ever increasing breadth of evidence based practice whereas 90% of Chiro treatments don't have randomized controlled studies. Theres a reason PT's and Orthopods/Rheumatologists etc, open up practices together. Just my thoughts.

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I should mention physio school is very competitive (GPA>3.76) to get into (some people try 5 times) so if you want a true back up then chiro could be better because you need a much lower GPA (prob below 3.3).

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I think some chiropractors are no better than snake oil salespeople,

 

This.

People, please don't confuse legal status and licensing/advocacy for any sort of clinical validity. Homeopathic vaccines recently got legalized in Canada for ****s sake (by recently I mean in the last week or so). I really don't see how a 4 year program validates anything chiropractors do; I could conjure up MeGusta's school of magic and wizardry and create a 5 year curriculum if anyone's willing to sign up (and more importantly pay).

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never knew OT and PT were a combined program before.

 

I should mention physio school is very competitive (GPA>3.76) to get into (some people try 5 times) so if you want a true back up then chiro could be better because you need a much lower GPA (prob below 3.3).

i know physio is competitive but it would increase my odds if i were applying to physio and med schools.

 

part of me is just thinking to fall back on business because that is what my parents do and i hope they would be able to help me find a job if need be. I am not entirely sure how happy i would be as not really making a difference just making good money though

 

OP: You might as well go to an US based Osteopathic med school if you are using Chiro as a backup :P

Just saying.

 

lol mashmetoo, i been reading your posts about the Osteopathic medicine :P . Still going to the USA seems like a big leap, though some programs can apply for residency at the same time as Canadians (L something schools)

 

seems like alot of risk going to usa

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This.

People, please don't confuse legal status and licensing/advocacy for any sort of clinical validity. Homeopathic vaccines recently got legalized in Canada for ****s sake (by recently I mean in the last week or so). I really don't see how a 4 year program validates anything chiropractors do; I could conjure up MeGusta's school of magic and wizardry and create a 5 year curriculum if anyone's willing to sign up (and more importantly pay).

 

ya but you'd have competition from the more extensive, 7-yr program at hogwarts. and, i hear they have the best DADA training.

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to be fair, i hate explaining how melatonin is an invaluable treatment for meth, ecstasy overheating (on a molecular basis), how n-acetyl-cysteine works for ocd and tricotilomania to the antiporter basis, how SAMe is good for ADHD to a chemistry basis, which requires knowing how mao-b, SAMe, the DAT1 transporter and COMT work in conjunction to degenerate catecholamines. i can go on and on and on for hours, literally, not as self indulgent ex posse, but as necessity to illustrate the fallacies of painting things broadly, and how such an approach may cause one to refute viable treatments without investigation... so ketamine is horse tranquilizer, and magnessium is useless, well actually, the prior is an irreversible nmda (ionotropic receptor) and ampa (metabotropic receptor) antagonist... memantine, used in alzheimers, is the priors reversable antagonist, with no antidepressent effects, probably because irreversable antagonism of ampa results in kinesins bringing increased ampa receptors to presynaptic glutamate binding sites via increased nuclear trancription from downstream signal cascades... it's also a pediatric anesthetic... im not defending homeopathy as a whole, rather challenging ideological skepticism... everything i've mentioned has clinical trials... magnessium, is also a nmda antagonist, with a u shaped curve, very good for migraines too... and b6 and zinc to iron ratio... i literally can explain the relevance of each to adhd in extreme depth, as well as say inositols effectiveness in depression (shoot, it's a second messenger in serotonergic cells, and has over 15 clinical trials (paradoxically, like magnessium, lithium is a cofactor for a fourth messenger, which eliminates the signal cascade of tri and penta-phosphatidylinositol often implicated in manic phases of bipolar) weird eh.

 

most homeopathy is bunk, but i dispute the fact that dismissing most of homeopathy is productive, rather, a critical approach to each modality of treatment seems more fruitful... and to the person who sais biochemistry is useless... in generalist disciplines i agree, but in dealing with things requiring novel solutions because of their rare and complex nature, such knowledge is invaluable, again, generalizations are good for some things, probably most, but generalizations are deleterious and paralyzing if you generalize their applicability to everything.

 

This.

People, please don't confuse legal status and licensing/advocacy for any sort of clinical validity. Homeopathic vaccines recently got legalized in Canada for ****s sake (by recently I mean in the last week or so). I really don't see how a 4 year program validates anything chiropractors do; I could conjure up MeGusta's school of magic and wizardry and create a 5 year curriculum if anyone's willing to sign up (and more importantly pay).

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to be fair, i hate explaining how melatonin is an invaluable treatment for meth, ecstasy overheating (on a molecular basis), how n-acetyl-cysteine works for ocd and tricotilomania to the antiporter basis, how SAMe is good for ADHD to a chemistry basis, which requires knowing how mao-b, SAMe, the DAT1 transporter and COMT work in conjunction to degenerate catecholamines. i can go on and on and on for hours, literally, not as self indulgent ex posse, but as necessity to illustrate the fallacies of painting things broadly, and how such an approach may cause one to refute viable treatments without investigation... so ketamine is horse tranquilizer, and magnessium is useless, well actually, the prior is an irreversible nmda (ionotropic receptor) and ampa (metabotropic receptor) antagonist... memantine, used in alzheimers, is the priors reversable antagonist, with no antidepressent effects, probably because irreversable antagonism of ampa results in kinesins bringing increased ampa receptors to presynaptic glutamate binding sites via increased nuclear trancription from downstream signal cascades... it's also a pediatric anesthetic... im not defending homeopathy as a whole, rather challenging ideological skepticism... everything i've mentioned has clinical trials... magnessium, is also a nmda antagonist, with a u shaped curve, very good for migraines too... and b6 and zinc to iron ratio... i literally can explain the relevance of each to adhd in extreme depth, as well as say inositols effectiveness in depression (shoot, it's a second messenger in serotonergic cells, and has over 15 clinical trials (paradoxically, like magnessium, lithium is a cofactor for a fourth messenger, which eliminates the signal cascade of tri and penta-phosphatidylinositol often implicated in manic phases of bipolar) weird eh.

 

most homeopathy is bunk, but i dispute the fact that dismissing most of homeopathy is productive, rather, a critical approach to each modality of treatment seems more fruitful... and to the person who sais biochemistry is useless... in generalist disciplines i agree, but in dealing with things requiring novel solutions because of their rare and complex nature, such knowledge is invaluable, again, generalizations are good for some things, probably most, but generalizations are deleterious and paralyzing if you generalize their applicability to everything.

I wasn't even talking about hoemeopathy here but while we're on the subject, you do realize that the main difference between all those things you described and heomeopathic "remedies" is that 1. your "unconventional" treatments have evidence, and 2. All of your treaments are not almost pure water. I'm all for praying to the emperor of the netherworld and/or doing rituatlistic twerking sessions in the hospital of there's evidence that it works.

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i just fear allopathic practitioners will dismiss effective treatments apriori, remember, the use of these treatments and initial investegation initiated before there were these trials etc.

 

for laughs, i see a chiro, only one i'll ever see, and i refer to him as my back cracker, i know little about chiro, if there is any evidence beyond that felt good, i'd be curious if anyone would share, since i'm under the impression there's very little??

 

I wasn't even talking about hoemeopathy here but while we're on the subject, you do realize that the main difference between all those things you described and heomeopathic "remedies" is that 1. your "unconventional" treatments have evidence, and 2. All of your treaments are not almost pure water. I'm all for praying to the emperor of the netherworld and/or doing rituatlistic twerking sessions in the hospital of there's evidence that it works.
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  • 1 year later...

chiro is also covered under extended health insurance plans. also i find PT to not be effective

 

1st one: TMJ, he put some electictic pads on my jaw and that was suppose to break up scar tissue...gave me excercises like opening and closing my mouth very slowly...wanted to me to say for treats for months and to see him when i am back in town because i commute for uni

 

2nd one: nice guy gave me ultrasound (electric pads) and ice for my injury didn't really do much

 

I know PT is only 24months but i can't do a profession i do not believe in

 

TMJ problems are really hard to treat.........Have you tried going to a dentist for your TMJ issues? or even a OMFS? some specialize in TMJ pain

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Maybe spend time shadowing each profession thoroughly?

 

I work in health care already and I can never stress enough, your perception as an undergrad of what PT, chiro, nursing, RT, social work etc is, is absolutely not realistic to what it really is once you work in the field for a few years.

 

You will not get a good grasp from 1 shadow experience with 1 person. Even in these schools (nursing, physio, social work) students spend lots of time in rotations in different areas along the continuum of care and then will realize what they actually like doing, and many times as a student your eyes open and you think "I had no idea my profession did this", happens to most of us. So again, I stress, if you are seriously trying to figure out what career you want to do for the rest of your life, spend LOTS of time meeting with people in these professions who work in different fields and different centres.

I know most people (at least in big cities with teaching hospitals were tons of students pass through) in these jobs would be more than open to having you shadow.

My tips (I have had shadow students):

1. Do some background research on what the job is.

2. Ask them what their responsibilities are.

3. Ask them what hours they work and what they do throughout the day.

4. Ask to observe their interactions with patients (if possible), say you want to see what an ___ (RN, PT, SW) assessment looks like. You will get a lot of insight into what they do simply by watching what it is they actually do.

5. Ask them if they do or if there is possibility to do ____ (research / teaching / presentations / ongoing learning) within their profession, or  whatever else you may look for in a job.

 

I would suggest to ask people in different settings across a continuum. For instance, a community nurse will do a job much different than an ICU nurse or an OR nurse.

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