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Second Degree, Introduction


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Hi Siefer.

I've looked at this topic a few times, as I'm sure others are as well, but unfortunately don't have all of the answers for you and am concerned about giving you misinformation. However I wanted to post this just so you know you're not being ignored.

You're asking some great questions, but no one here really has the authority to answer them. What you should do is call or email the admissions officer at Queens/Western and ask them these questions just so you have that peace of mind.

My guess would be that you are technically in your first year of your second degree and have no background courses in the new area of study, in which case you can take first year courses. Also, If York's Kin program is anything like McMaster's (which I took in my undergraduate studies), your pkin course is taken above and beyond the regular 10 course per year requirement, which makes it a non-issue. Also, by one course per year, they may mean "One full year course" or in other words, one course per semester.

These are things you should definitely clear with Admissions, in particular at Western.

Good luck!

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1) Western's rules apply in all years, not just 2nd and 3rd, but it's a meaningless rule in year 1 and has some exceptions in year 4. Basically the rule is, unless they've changed it since I applied, is that you must have 3 of your 5 courses over the year (so 6 of your 10 courses if you're doing 5 distinct courses each semester) at or above the level of your year of study. So in first year, since every course is at the first year level or higher, it really doesn't matter what you take. In your fourth year, third year courses count as "at or above the level of your year of study". Long story short, take what you want this year.

 

2) I believe it's 1 full-credit course each year, so if you have 1 half-credit course each semester every year, you should be fine. If for whatever reason that doesn't count, the only remedy I know of is to simply take more courses each semester, since the rule really is that you have to have 4 full-credit courses that are NOT pass/fail and 5 full-credit courses overall each year. Any pass/fail courses beyond those limits are basically ignored.

 

3) Repeat courses are basically ignored, both in GPA calculations and in consideration of full-time status. Not sure about equivalent courses, since it's hard for schools to definitively say what's equivalent and what's not, but tread lightly with those - it might be worth checking with the school about that. If you must do a repeat course then yes, take it as an extra course, either during the summer or in addition to an otherwise full-time schedule during the school year.

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Thanks for the answers MathtoMed and ralk! Your responses have been very helpful! I have an appointment with a university counsellor coming up, and I will bring some of these questions to her attention and see what she says. As suggested, I will also email or phone call the Western and Queens offices , and see what they say just to be 100% confident. However, I believe the information that ralk posted seems to be on the button. 

When I do get a response, I will post the confirmation with the results in this thread for anyone who is lurking and would be interested. Again, thanks guys!

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  • 1 month later...

Emergency!

 

Big concern with the 3/5 rule right now!

 

Hey guys, a friend brought to my attention that senior courses are third year or above at Western. Also, the person in this thread http://forums.premed101.com/index.php?/topic/78447-general-question-about-second-degreeswestern-university/ states the same. So, when the post by ralk stated that the 3/5 are only meant to be the same year as you are currently in, is that not correct then for 2nd degree students?

 

Also, I found this from their website "Students who complete a second undergraduate degree within one year of full-time studies must register in 5.0 courses or equivalent. In this situation, at least 3.0 of the 5.0 courses must be at the third- or fourth-year level. First- and second-year courses that do not require a first-year prerequisite may be included within the 5.0 courses only if absolutely mandatory for the second degree program." source: http://westerncalendar.uwo.ca/2013/pg534.html (year 2013.. is it just outdated?)

 

I currently have 5 courses:

 

1) 1000 level course (absolutely mandatory for program)

2) 1000 level course  (absolutely mandatory for program)

3) 2000 level course   (absolutely mandatory for program)

4) 2000 level course (will have to switch this one if the information above is correct)

5) 3000 level course

 

I basically have a couple days to switch out of the course and join something else and need to know immediately what I should do.

 

I emailed western and waiting for response but was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this situation for me while I wait for response since I have very small amount of time left to make the switch.

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Wow, I didn't know you could take 3rd year courses in your first year.. 

I thought Western you need to have a 4-year degree. 

 

Emergency!

 

Big concern with the 3/5 rule right now!

 

Hey guys, a friend brought to my attention that senior courses are third year or above at Western. Also, the person in this thread http://forums.premed101.com/index.php?/topic/78447-general-question-about-second-degreeswestern-university/ states the same. So, when the post by ralk stated that the 3/5 are only meant to be the same year as you are currently in, is that not correct then for 2nd degree students?

 

Also, I found this from their website "Students who complete a second undergraduate degree within one year of full-time studies must register in 5.0 courses or equivalent. In this situation, at least 3.0 of the 5.0 courses must be at the third- or fourth-year level. First- and second-year courses that do not require a first-year prerequisite may be included within the 5.0 courses only if absolutely mandatory for the second degree program." source: http://westerncalendar.uwo.ca/2013/pg534.html (year 2013.. is it just outdated?)

 

I currently have 5 courses:

 

1) 1000 level course (absolutely mandatory for program)

2) 1000 level course  (absolutely mandatory for program)

3) 2000 level course   (absolutely mandatory for program)

4) 2000 level course (will have to switch this one if the information above is correct)

5) 3000 level course

 

I basically have a couple days to switch out of the course and join something else and need to know immediately what I should do.

 

I emailed western and waiting for response but was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this situation for me while I wait for response since I have very small amount of time left to make the switch.

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3/5 courses must be at your year level of study. As per York's system, this means 18 credits out of the 30 that you are taking during the year must be at the year level of your study or higher. This does not mean 3/5 courses each semester.

 

PKIN courses are 0 credits and not counted in the pass/fail category for Western. In fact, you don't need to report them on OMSAS (as far as I know).

 

Repeat courses are not counted and if there is a repeat course that you are counting as part of the 30 credits you are doing, that year's GPA will not be sufficient for Western. If you need to repeat a course, then do it in the summer or on top of the 30 credits.

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Okay!

 

I just got off the phone with the western admissions office 2 minutes ago and confirmed all the facts. So here it is. If you are doing a SECOND DEGREE, and plan to finish it in 2 YEARS time, then you need to have 3/5 courses at senior level (this is year 2 or level 2000+ above courses!!). I repeat 2000 +level courses NOT 3000+ level courses.

 

The misinformation that comes from that senior level courses are (3000 level or 4000 level) is if you are completing the SECOND DEGREE in ONE YEAR.

 

I specifically asked her these questions about 5 times in the conversation to make sure I am hearing things exactly the same way and this is the CORRECT information acquired from admissions office at Western regarding the 3/5 rule.

 

In my case, I do not lose eligibility for consideration of this year and for anyone doing a second degree just make sure that 6/10 courses in a year are senior level courses which are 2000+ level (if you plan to complete it in 2 years time, NOW if you plan to complete it in ONE(1) years time, then you need it to be 6/10 courses at 3000 or 4000 level)

 

Hope this clarifies it and no one has to go through the anxiety I went through yesterday with the belief that my year would not be eligible for consideration. Also, maybe a mod wants to put this information in the second degree policies topic would most probably  benefit a lot of people.

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Wow, thanks so much for sharing! It must have been tough for you to get all these answers.

So EVEN if you complete in 1 year or 2 years it still equals to an Honours degree?

Thanks! 

Okay!

 

I just got off the phone with the western admissions office 2 minutes ago and confirmed all the facts. So here it is. If you are doing a SECOND DEGREE, and plan to finish it in 2 YEARS time, then you need to have 3/5 courses at senior level (this is year 2 or level 2000+ above courses!!). I repeat 2000 +level courses NOT 3000+ level courses.

 

The misinformation that comes from that senior level courses are (3000 level or 4000 level) is if you are completing the SECOND DEGREE in ONE YEAR.

 

I specifically asked her these questions about 5 times in the conversation to make sure I am hearing things exactly the same way and this is the CORRECT information acquired from admissions office at Western regarding the 3/5 rule.

 

In my case, I do not lose eligibility for consideration of this year and for anyone doing a second degree just make sure that 6/10 courses in a year are senior level courses which are 2000+ level (if you plan to complete it in 2 years time, NOW if you plan to complete it in ONE(1) years time, then you need it to be 6/10 courses at 3000 or 4000 level)

 

Hope this clarifies it and no one has to go through the anxiety I went through yesterday with the belief that my year would not be eligible for consideration. Also, maybe a mod wants to put this information in the second degree policies topic would most probably  benefit a lot of people.

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wow okay.

So even second UGs are not necessarily a regular four year (Honours Bach) or 3 years (just Bach)? because of transfers?

 

That's right. From what I've seen, roughly half of your honours degree can be used to fill the "elective" portion of the second degree. The remaining year or two that you do take, is typically spent taking core classes, unless you already happen to satisfy some of the prereqs (in which case you have some elective space).

 

 

what if they say specifically you gotta be in your third year?

This I'm not sure about, I'd recommend making an inquiry to the particular program's dean.

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  • 2 months later...

Okay!

 

I just got off the phone with the western admissions office 2 minutes ago and confirmed all the facts. So here it is. If you are doing a SECOND DEGREE, and plan to finish it in 2 YEARS time, then you need to have 3/5 courses at senior level (this is year 2 or level 2000+ above courses!!). I repeat 2000 +level courses NOT 3000+ level courses.

 

The misinformation that comes from that senior level courses are (3000 level or 4000 level) is if you are completing the SECOND DEGREE in ONE YEAR.

 

Thanks for calling in. What if one were to do it in 3 years? That is, what if rather than taking 2 years to do a second undergree, one did 3 years? 

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  • 3 weeks later...

maybenow, I never asked about completing it in 3 years years, so I do not want to provide you with any false information. Your best bet, and I highly employ you to do this, is call in and find out the information straight from the source. Also, if you will be so kind, post the information that was provided for you as I am sure lurkers on this forum would love to know the answer to this question.

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  • 5 months later...

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