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Hey guys!

 

I'm not sure if I'm reading the UofT admission stats accurately (link below). For the degree statistics, does "Non-degree" strictly refer to applicants who were in the third year of a 4-year undergrad at the time of application?

 

If the above is true, is this primarily a reflection of relatively few third year applicants (which seems unlikely)? 7 out 259 seems to me like a third year applicant is NOT viewed equally as his/her hypothetical 4th-year equivalent, even though the official admissions statement suggests otherwise!

 

I'm assuming most third years who are confident enough to apply have a seemingly competitive portfolio (even without a weighting formula)...any validity in this?

 

http://www.md.utoronto.ca/admissions/statistics.htm

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Most everybody who applies will have a seemingly competitive portfolio. So, compare a 3rd year with a competitive portfolio and a 4th year who has had just that one extra crucial year to not only apply a second time (therefore, stepping up their game) but also add to the quality and quantity of their volunteer/extracurriculars and generally gain just a little bit more insight into life (and all of the U of T clusters).

 

Now, compare a 3rd year applicant with a competitive portfolio to an MSc grad with a competitive portfolio...all else equal, I'd rather the more accomplished graduate than the green-as-grass individual.

 

If anything, my thought would be that the 7 talented buggers who got in on their first try were some SERIOUSLY talented individuals to stare down at least a few of the PhD's who unfortunately did not get accepted just then.

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There is no penalty for applying with an incomplete degree...or in other words the conferring of the degree itself has no bearing on your application Just like how a successful applicant holding a BSc was not penalized for not having an MSc, the Non-degree candidate will not be penalized for not having a BSc.

 

This does not however mean that the applicants in their entirety are seen as equal. 4 years of stuff will typically trump 3 years of stuff unless that 3 years is extraordinary.

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Are you sure only seven 3rd-year undergraduates got in? I know 4 McMaster Health Science students who got in after third year....and that's just by word of mouth - there may be more. I have a hard time believing that so many of those third years would just come from one program. 

 

Anyway, yes - as I understand, Toronto has a very holistic approach to evaluating candidates. At the end of the day, applying out of third year you have to ask: why should they pick me at such a young age when more time and experience brings such immense learning and growth? 

 

Applying out of 4th year tends to be much more advantageous than applying out of 3rd year: 

 

1) For many, a weighted GPA formula is applied which can give substantial GPA increases.

2) More experiences on the ABS.

3) More insight regarding those experiences.

4) Enhanced communication/character that increases interview success. 

5) The advantage of having gone through the process before. 

 

It doesn't come as a surprise to me that so few 3rd years are successful at Toronto (or in general) for this reason. Yet, only 7 students from across Canada seems way too low...

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Are you sure only seven 3rd-year undergraduates got in? I know 4 McMaster Health Science students who got in after third year....and that's just by word of mouth - there may be more. I have a hard time believing that so many of those third years would just come from one program.

 

Anyway, yes - as I understand, Toronto has a very holistic approach to evaluating candidates. At the end of the day, applying out of third year you have to ask: why should they pick me at such a young age when more time and experience brings such immense learning and growth?

 

Applying out of 4th year tends to be much more advantageous than applying out of 3rd year:

 

1) For many, a weighted GPA formula is applied which can give substantial GPA increases.

2) More experiences on the ABS.

3) More insight regarding those experiences.

4) Enhanced communication/character that increases interview success.

5) The advantage of having gone through the process before.

 

It doesn't come as a surprise to me that so few 3rd years are successful at Toronto (or in general) for this reason. Yet, only 7 students from across Canada seems way too low...

The stats on this page show 7 no degree, 2 with 3 years Bsc and 1 with HBsc so the real number is 10. However this is not the stats of accepted candidates, this is matriculated applicants. So for example, I was accepted to UofT but I decided to go to Queen's therefore I would not count on the stats you have linked. I know of at least 1 2nd year at Queen's who was accepted after third year and rejected Toronto.

Also here is a link to the Queen's class of this year if you are interested. 9 of us came from third year!

 

http://meds.queensu.ca/blog/?p=2761

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Some universities like McMaster gives out BSc to 3rd years. So the number is closer to 9.

True. I had initially counted these with the fourth years since in both cases an undergrad degree is completed by the time of entry into MD. But if, as has been said, the conferring of a degree it self is inconsequential, then I suppose 3rd years of a 3-yr BSc are, for all UofT intents and purposes, equivalent to 3rd years of a typical 4-yr BSc. 

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The stats on this page show 7 no degree, 2 with 3 years Bsc and 1 with HBsc so the real number is 10. However this is not the stats of accepted candidates, this is matriculated applicants. So for example, I was accepted to UofT but I decided to go to Queen's therefore I would not count on the stats you have linked. I know of at least 1 2nd year at Queen's who was accepted after third year and rejected Toronto.

Also here is a link to the Queen's class of this year if you are interested. 9 of us came from third year!

 

http://meds.queensu.ca/blog/?p=2761

Ha ha, TRUE! Good call!

 

Of course, it's hard to say, but what would be your estimate of how many people on average might fall into this category (i.e 3rd yr, Declined UofT offer of admission)? 

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Ha ha, TRUE! Good call!

 

Of course, it's hard to say, but what would be your estimate of how many people on average might fall into this category (i.e 3rd yr, Declined UofT offer of admission)?

 

It is impossible to say as we would have to pill every medical student asking them if they got into UofT and if they declined their admission. I know in my class (accepted in 2014) I know of at least one other 3rd year who declined UofT in favor of Queens. If this happens at least once for each school in Ontario (which it could very well not) we would be at 4 (it happened twice at Queen's so probably 5, also I didn't count Western since third years can't apply and therefore would not be able to chose Western over Toronto).

 

So my guess is it happens for aroubd 4-5 applicants so the real stat would be around 15.

 

That being said, I have based this conclusion on anecdotal evidence and could be totally wrong.

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It is impossible to say as we would have to pill every medical student asking them if they got into UofT and if they declined their admission. I know in my class (accepted in 2014) I know of at least one other 3rd year who declined UofT in favor of Queens. If this happens at least once for each school in Ontario (which it could very well not) we would be at 4 (it happened twice at Queen's so probably 5, also I didn't count Western since third years can't apply and therefore would not be able to chose Western over Toronto).

 

So my guess is it happens for aroubd 4-5 applicants so the real stat would be around 15.

 

That being said, I have based this conclusion on anecdotal evidence and could be totally wrong.

Yeah, I figure it's an impossible statistic to accurately ascertain...just generating some healthy speculation  :)

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These are stats from last year. For some reason, there are a LOT more 3rd years in this year's (1T8) class and it's really not that uncommon anymore. I don't know if there's a shift in the system (there's a new dean in town) or if the new MPI is responsible, or we're just really lucky this year but 3rd years definitely have a real chance at U of T.

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