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Mcmaster Md Curriculum


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Does anyone have any information on the McMaster curriculum? I tried to find it on McMaster's website but couldn't. 

 

I would really be interested in knowing if there is a pre-clinical to clinical divide, when clinical rotations start, what is covered in pre-clinical years, how students are examined, how many lectures there are and how much elective time there is in clinical years. 

 

I know this is a lot that I am asking, so if you are a current student and can give me some information or if you know the link to where this information can be found I would appreciate it. 

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I think most of the information you're asking about can be found here, on the academic calendar site: http://academiccalendars.romcmaster.ca/preview_program.php?catoid=7&poid=4293&returnto=563&print

 

If you have more specific questions after looking through that, ask away. :)

How do your classes work exactly? Do they give you lecture slides/suggested readings from a textbook beforehand so you can get ready for tutorials?  Do many students use textbooks? This concept is so foreign to me, I'm confused/scared :')

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How do your classes work exactly? Do they give you lecture slides/suggested readings from a textbook beforehand so you can get ready for tutorials?  Do many students use textbooks? This concept is so foreign to me, I'm confused/scared :')

 

We have lectures usually 2 days/week in the mornings. Those are usually pretty physiology-based, and the slides are usually available in advance. As far as our tutorials, those happen twice a week (there are other sessions as well, but these are the PBL sessions everyone worries about). During a tutorial, we set objectives for the next session (eg anatomy and normal physiology of whatever we're studying that week, pathophysiology of whatever disease process we're looking at that week, etc). Then we have 3-4 days between tutorials to do all of the prep on our own. There are usually some suggested resources linked for each case, but it's pretty variable how good the resources are. Everyone kind of figures out on their own what the best method is for them. There are a ton of textbooks available online through our library, a USB key is passed around the class during the first couple of weeks with some resources on it, and everyone does their own thing. There are a couple modules where everyone tends to use the same textbook, but that actually isn't the best because then everyone comes to tutorial having read the same thing - I've always gotten more out of sessions where everyone has read different resources and we can all talk about the differences between what we've read. 

 

It's definitely a steep learning curve in terms of figuring out how to prep for tutorial, but everyone figures it out pretty quickly. :)

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We have lectures usually 2 days/week in the mornings. Those are usually pretty physiology-based, and the slides are usually available in advance. As far as our tutorials, those happen twice a week (there are other sessions as well, but these are the PBL sessions everyone worries about). During a tutorial, we set objectives for the next session (eg anatomy and normal physiology of whatever we're studying that week, pathophysiology of whatever disease process we're looking at that week, etc). Then we have 3-4 days between tutorials to do all of the prep on our own. There are usually some suggested resources linked for each case, but it's pretty variable how good the resources are. Everyone kind of figures out on their own what the best method is for them. There are a ton of textbooks available online through our library, a USB key is passed around the class during the first couple of weeks with some resources on it, and everyone does their own thing. There are a couple modules where everyone tends to use the same textbook, but that actually isn't the best because then everyone comes to tutorial having read the same thing - I've always gotten more out of sessions where everyone has read different resources and we can all talk about the differences between what we've read. 

 

It's definitely a steep learning curve in terms of figuring out how to prep for tutorial, but everyone figures it out pretty quickly. :)

In your opinion, how effective is this method of learning compared to if you had lecs 4 or 5 days a week and you were given all the material that you needed to know and then you had PBL 1 or 2 times a week (I'm not sure how often other schools do it)? What are the pros and cons?

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We have lectures usually 2 days/week in the mornings. Those are usually pretty physiology-based, and the slides are usually available in advance. As far as our tutorials, those happen twice a week (there are other sessions as well, but these are the PBL sessions everyone worries about). During a tutorial, we set objectives for the next session (eg anatomy and normal physiology of whatever we're studying that week, pathophysiology of whatever disease process we're looking at that week, etc). Then we have 3-4 days between tutorials to do all of the prep on our own. There are usually some suggested resources linked for each case, but it's pretty variable how good the resources are. Everyone kind of figures out on their own what the best method is for them. There are a ton of textbooks available online through our library, a USB key is passed around the class during the first couple of weeks with some resources on it, and everyone does their own thing. There are a couple modules where everyone tends to use the same textbook, but that actually isn't the best because then everyone comes to tutorial having read the same thing - I've always gotten more out of sessions where everyone has read different resources and we can all talk about the differences between what we've read. 

 

It's definitely a steep learning curve in terms of figuring out how to prep for tutorial, but everyone figures it out pretty quickly. :)

 

Thanks so much for this information and the link. I was wondering do you know how many weeks of weeks you get of electives during clerkship, are you allowed to do part of them abroad in another country? Also, after Med Foundation 4 there is an elective period, what do students usually do during this time? Do they do research, but it seems a bit too short for that, do they do observerships in Canada or electives in other countries, or do they perhaps write licensing exams like the USMLE? 

 

In regards to the average week, how many hours of class includin tutorials and lectures and dissection etc is there at McMaster? 

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In your opinion, how effective is this method of learning compared to if you had lecs 4 or 5 days a week and you were given all the material that you needed to know and then you had PBL 1 or 2 times a week (I'm not sure how often other schools do it)? What are the pros and cons?

 

I like it much better than lectures. I'm not a person who learns well from lectures, so this is perfect for me - I much prefer to learn independently and don't like being spoon fed information. We also have a lot less class time because we do so much independent learning, which is also a great fit for my learning style. Different people have different learning styles, you just have to know what works for you. It's definitely stressful for the first while trying to figure out how and what to learn though. Beyond that, I can't really give too many pros/cons of this vs other schools because I've never been a med student at another school. :) 

 

This seems like a good place to ask. I don't have a strong human science background, so is there any area that would be recommended to study before starting at Mac? I'm taking A&P right now through Athabasca, and thinking of picking up another course.

I'm not sure - I'm one of the non-science students, and I didn't do any specific studying before starting at Mac. I don't know if I'd change that either - no matter how much I'd prepped ahead of time I'm sure first year would have still been tough, so I'm happy that I spent the time before I started doing other things. If you get in, I think there might be a list of resources for non-science students in the package in case you want to spend your summer learning. 

 

 

Thanks so much for this information and the link. I was wondering do you know how many weeks of weeks you get of electives during clerkship, are you allowed to do part of them abroad in another country? Also, after Med Foundation 4 there is an elective period, what do students usually do during this time? Do they do research, but it seems a bit too short for that, do they do observerships in Canada or electives in other countries, or do they perhaps write licensing exams like the USMLE? 

 

In regards to the average week, how many hours of class includin tutorials and lectures and dissection etc is there at McMaster? 

 

We get 24 weeks in total - 7 preclerkship during the first summer, and the other 17 weeks are during clerkship. You can go abroad - a lot of people do this for the preclerkship electives (we call them post-MF4s). I don't know anyone who's gone outside of Canada or the US for clerkship electives so far though - those are basically audition electives for residency, and we already have a short program, so people are using those to visit as many programs in North America as they can. 

 

For post-MF4 electives, people do all kinds of stuff - some do research, but lots go abroad and combine the electives with vacation. I just stayed near home and enjoyed my summer. Preclerkship electives are a mixed bag - some schools will only let you do an elective there if it's classified as an observership, but in other places (if you stay at Mac, for example, since that's what I did), you get to do things - you just aren't very useful yet, to be honest. You're not going to get a CaRMS reference letter from a preclerkship elective, so people just tend to use the time to see which specialties they like, since we have to decide fairly early on. I suppose you could study for the USMLE during that time if you wanted (you could book lighter electives) but I don't know anyone who did. 

 

As far as the average week... usually 6-8 hours of lectures, professional competencies for 3 hours, tutorial for 6 hours, clinical skills for 3 hours, and then anatomy sessions once every 2 or 3 weeks (or weekly depending on which campus you're at) for a few hours. I think that's everything? I've been in clerkship for a couple months now so might be forgetting some of the preclerkship schedule stuff. 

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I like it much better than lectures. I'm not a person who learns well from lectures, so this is perfect for me - I much prefer to learn independently and don't like being spoon fed information. We also have a lot less class time because we do so much independent learning, which is also a great fit for my learning style. Different people have different learning styles, you just have to know what works for you. It's definitely stressful for the first while trying to figure out how and what to learn though. Beyond that, I can't really give too many pros/cons of this vs other schools because I've never been a med student at another school. :)

 

I'm not sure - I'm one of the non-science students, and I didn't do any specific studying before starting at Mac. I don't know if I'd change that either - no matter how much I'd prepped ahead of time I'm sure first year would have still been tough, so I'm happy that I spent the time before I started doing other things. If you get in, I think there might be a list of resources for non-science students in the package in case you want to spend your summer learning. 

 

 

 

We get 24 weeks in total - 7 preclerkship during the first summer, and the other 17 weeks are during clerkship. You can go abroad - a lot of people do this for the preclerkship electives (we call them post-MF4s). I don't know anyone who's gone outside of Canada or the US for clerkship electives so far though - those are basically audition electives for residency, and we already have a short program, so people are using those to visit as many programs in North America as they can. 

 

For post-MF4 electives, people do all kinds of stuff - some do research, but lots go abroad and combine the electives with vacation. I just stayed near home and enjoyed my summer. Preclerkship electives are a mixed bag - some schools will only let you do an elective there if it's classified as an observership, but in other places (if you stay at Mac, for example, since that's what I did), you get to do things - you just aren't very useful yet, to be honest. You're not going to get a CaRMS reference letter from a preclerkship elective, so people just tend to use the time to see which specialties they like, since we have to decide fairly early on. I suppose you could study for the USMLE during that time if you wanted (you could book lighter electives) but I don't know anyone who did. 

 

As far as the average week... usually 6-8 hours of lectures, professional competencies for 3 hours, tutorial for 6 hours, clinical skills for 3 hours, and then anatomy sessions once every 2 or 3 weeks (or weekly depending on which campus you're at) for a few hours. I think that's everything? I've been in clerkship for a couple months now so might be forgetting some of the preclerkship schedule stuff. 

Thanks for all of this information!

 

In terms of the amount of class per week... do you typically have tutorial on the same days as say professional competencies and clinical skills? Do you have any days with no formal class time during the week (if we don't count lectures, which I understand are recorded)? What is the breakdown of a typical week?

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I like it much better than lectures. I'm not a person who learns well from lectures, so this is perfect for me - I much prefer to learn independently and don't like being spoon fed information. We also have a lot less class time because we do so much independent learning, which is also a great fit for my learning style. Different people have different learning styles, you just have to know what works for you. It's definitely stressful for the first while trying to figure out how and what to learn though. Beyond that, I can't really give too many pros/cons of this vs other schools because I've never been a med student at another school. :)

 

I'm not sure - I'm one of the non-science students, and I didn't do any specific studying before starting at Mac. I don't know if I'd change that either - no matter how much I'd prepped ahead of time I'm sure first year would have still been tough, so I'm happy that I spent the time before I started doing other things. If you get in, I think there might be a list of resources for non-science students in the package in case you want to spend your summer learning. 

 

 

 

We get 24 weeks in total - 7 preclerkship during the first summer, and the other 17 weeks are during clerkship. You can go abroad - a lot of people do this for the preclerkship electives (we call them post-MF4s). I don't know anyone who's gone outside of Canada or the US for clerkship electives so far though - those are basically audition electives for residency, and we already have a short program, so people are using those to visit as many programs in North America as they can. 

 

For post-MF4 electives, people do all kinds of stuff - some do research, but lots go abroad and combine the electives with vacation. I just stayed near home and enjoyed my summer. Preclerkship electives are a mixed bag - some schools will only let you do an elective there if it's classified as an observership, but in other places (if you stay at Mac, for example, since that's what I did), you get to do things - you just aren't very useful yet, to be honest. You're not going to get a CaRMS reference letter from a preclerkship elective, so people just tend to use the time to see which specialties they like, since we have to decide fairly early on. I suppose you could study for the USMLE during that time if you wanted (you could book lighter electives) but I don't know anyone who did. 

 

As far as the average week... usually 6-8 hours of lectures, professional competencies for 3 hours, tutorial for 6 hours, clinical skills for 3 hours, and then anatomy sessions once every 2 or 3 weeks (or weekly depending on which campus you're at) for a few hours. I think that's everything? I've been in clerkship for a couple months now so might be forgetting some of the preclerkship schedule stuff. 

Thanks for the info. Can you explain what these professional competency sessions are? 

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Thanks for all of this information!

 

In terms of the amount of class per week... do you typically have tutorial on the same days as say professional competencies and clinical skills? Do you have any days with no formal class time during the week (if we don't count lectures, which I understand are recorded)? What is the breakdown of a typical week?

 

Tutorial schedules are variable - they change every few months, as do the tutorial group members you're with. Generally, they go Monday+Thursday, or Tuesday+Friday, so you'll definitely have them the same day as professional competencies and clinical skills. You can even have all three on the same day, which looks something like this:

 

9AM-12PM: ProComp

1PM-4PM: Tutorial

6PM-9PM: Clinical skills

 

The obvious benefit of this is that if everything is out of the way in one day, there's a good chance you'll have a day off. So it depends on your schedule. There's always seminars and interest groups and horizontal electives to do though, as well as stuff to read so there's no real "days off". I will say I was kind of doubtful about the whole PBL thing at first, coming from a very didactic background (as most life sci kids do) - but once you get the hang of it, it's great.

 

As for the professional competencies curriculum, I don't think I can post the handout or anything but here's some of the stuff they're trying to teach us in ProComp: http://fhs.mcmaster.ca/mdprog/description_of_foundations.html (scroll down).

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How much time do you get off in the summer between 1st and 2nd year and 2nd year and 3rd year?

Summer between 1st and 2nd year: one week, as from July-August we're doing electives for 7 weeks (you can take a week off at any time in that 8 week timeframe)

 

Not entirely sure about 2nd year and third year - you're well into clerkship by that point, and I think you get two weeks off, which you can take whenever. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

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Summer between 1st and 2nd year: one week, as from July-August we're doing electives for 7 weeks (you can take a week off at any time in that 8 week timeframe)

 

Not entirely sure about 2nd year and third year - you're well into clerkship by that point, and I think you get two weeks off, which you can take whenever. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

there are two weeks of vacation built into the schedule between 2nd and 3rd year (a pretty artificial divide since you're speeding through clerkship). nevertheless, many clerks decide to do two weeks of electives instead of taking the vacation effectively "banking" these vacation weeks for their CaRMS interview tour or post-CaRMS. if you've been keeping track with the math, that's 50 weeks of Clerkship straight.

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I'm not sure - I'm one of the non-science students, and I didn't do any specific studying before starting at Mac. I don't know if I'd change that either - no matter how much I'd prepped ahead of time I'm sure first year would have still been tough, so I'm happy that I spent the time before I started doing other things. If you get in, I think there might be a list of resources for non-science students in the package in case you want to spend your summer learning. 

 

Thanks anyway! Most of the limited time I get away from the kids I spend studying, so I appreciate knowledge acquisition so much more now! If anyone else has a perspective on useful material to study I'd appreciate it.

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there are two weeks of vacation built into the schedule between 2nd and 3rd year (a pretty artificial divide since you're speeding through clerkship). nevertheless, many clerks decide to do two weeks of electives instead of taking the vacation effectively "banking" these vacation weeks for their CaRMS interview tour or post-CaRMS. if you've been keeping track with the math, that's 50 weeks of Clerkship straight.

Yeah, I had the feeling a lot of people weren't taking the two weeks in 2nd year and saving them for post-CaRMS. Makes sense, I guess you want to do as many electives as possible before the application deadline.

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For some reason (it takes no stretch of the imagination to think of a few), each year an increasing percentage of students do not take their 2nd year two weeks. Interestingly enough, there is no difference in matching percentages between the group that takes the vacation and those that do not. 

 

ParkourParkour - good to see you around.

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