Would You Restart Medical School In Canada After Doing 1 Year In The Us?

[JohnGrisham]

With May 15th coming closer, i'm at a crossroads - I will for sure be attending a medical school in the US that I am more than thrilled about being accepted at, should my alma mater not offer a seat. The US school offers everything I need and I have already potentially secured a clinical research opportunity. 

However, apart of me thinks it would be financially smart to re-apply to my alma-mater one more time - and should I be accepted, restart medical school here in Canada after 1 year in the US.  

On the other hand, I can't imagine being thrilled to have to re-do first year again- I can imagine some form of burnout, boredom of repeating the same material - which in turn would lead me to perhaps do poorly etc etc.  

Any thoughts and opinions?

This is of course all hypothetical at this point - no decisions have been made, nor do I know how I will even feel come term 2 of M1 - perhaps I will be of a different mindset. Future thinking is sometimes a bit too optimistic - i'd be just as likely to want to move on and get out of pre-clinical years as I would be to be fine to repeat the year in a more relaxed environment. Even then, it could be that I wouldn't even be accepted to my alma-mater a 2nd time - and then I would simple just move on. It would be only a hail-mary re-applying during first year, after that point it would not make any sense opportunity cost wise. 

[ralk]

If it's a USMD school, I would say no, it's not worth starting over. The tuition difference is substantial and travel/living costs may factor into it as well, but contrasted against the extra year of tuition in Canada and the lost earnings by waiting a year to start working as a physician... I don't know if that's worth it financially.

 

Think about it this way - an annual salary for a physician in almost every field runs at $200k pre-tax, more depending on the specialty. You're not likely to make that up through lower tuition from a Canadian school. Sticking in the US school is a short-term monetary loss for long-term monetary gain, in addition to the time cost.

 

If you were going overseas and maybe even if you were heading to a USDO school, the loss in career opportunities would make going for a Canadian school worthwhile, but USMDs have good prospects, both in Canada and in the US. 

[JohnGrisham]

Fair points!  TMV definitely applies.  I'm not too concerned at all about loss in career opportunities, I'm pursuing either FM or IM(with subspecialty training) and both are pretty fair game for the average student.

[ralk]

Fair points!  TMV definitely applies.  I'm not too concerned at all about loss in career opportunities, I'm pursuing either FM or IM(with subspecialty training) and both are pretty fair game for the average student.

 

You never know what you're going for until you've gone for it

[JohnGrisham]

You never know what you're going for until you've gone for it

Haha of course.

[bearded frog]

I think canadian schools you might have to say if you've matriculated at a medical school before, so it might be hard to come back in the first place. Amercian schools do for sure.

[JohnGrisham]

I contacted my Canadian alma mater and they indicated it would be acceptable, and of course restarting etc should the applicant be admitted on their merits etc.

[bearded frog]

I think canadaian schools are good for that because a lot of it comes down to scores and algorithms, where in the states, if the dean doesn't like the cut of your jib, then you're out.

[JohnGrisham]

I think canadaian schools are good for that because a lot of it comes down to scores and algorithms, where in the states, if the dean doesn't like the cut of your jib, then you're out.

Yeah, but sometimes Canadian schools are a bit to rigid haha. It's all supply and demand anyways!

[BBALLMED]

With May 15th coming closer, i'm at a crossroads - I will for sure be attending a medical school in the US that I am more than thrilled about being accepted at, should my alma mater not offer a seat. The US school offers everything I need and I have already potentially secured a clinical research opportunity. 

 

However, apart of me thinks it would be financially smart to re-apply to my alma-mater one more time - and should I be accepted, restart medical school here in Canada after 1 year in the US.  

 

On the other hand, I can't imagine being thrilled to have to re-do first year again- I can imagine some form of burnout, boredom of repeating the same material - which in turn would lead me to perhaps do poorly etc etc.  

 

Any thoughts and opinions?

 

This is of course all hypothetical at this point - no decisions have been made, nor do I know how I will even feel come term 2 of M1 - perhaps I will be of a different mindset. Future thinking is sometimes a bit too optimistic - i'd be just as likely to want to move on and get out of pre-clinical years as I would be to be fine to repeat the year in a more relaxed environment. Even then, it could be that I wouldn't even be accepted to my alma-mater a 2nd time - and then I would simple just move on. It would be only a hail-mary re-applying during first year, after that point it would not make any sense opportunity cost wise. 

I am somewhat at the same crossroads, but I am confident that the extra debt load is more than manageable as a doctor. If you are talking problems about financing during school, take out multiple bank loans from different banks (I've done this so far with three banks in Canada) and you should have no problems financing your American education.

[JohnGrisham]

I am somewhat at the same crossroads, but I am confident that the extra debt load is more than manageable as a doctor. If you are talking problems about financing during school, take out multiple bank loans from different banks (I've done this so far with three banks in Canada) and you should have no problems financing your American education.

I wasn't aware you were allowed to take multiple LOCs..unless they are with different cosigners? I guess that would be a last resort should it come to it, but i definitely hope not haha.

 

 

 

 

[BBALLMED]

I wasn't aware you were allowed to take multiple LOCs..unless they are with different cosigners? I guess that would be a last resort should it come to it, but i definitely hope not haha.

 

 

 

 

You have to request the LOCs on the same time, at least that is what I did. At that point, banks do not know your history or debt load with other banks

[JohnGrisham]

You have to request the LOCs on the same time, at least that is what I did. At that point, banks do not know your history or debt load with other banks

haha sneaky! Though - what happens if something suddenly happens and your cosigner is left with 2 very large LOCs to handle :S  That is a scary prospect, regardless if "technically" it was an okay thing to do at the beginning of the process. 

[BBALLMED]

haha sneaky! Though - what happens if something suddenly happens and your cosigner is left with 2 very large LOCs to handle :S  That is a scary prospect, regardless if "technically" it was an okay thing to do at the beginning of the process. 

The only possible way that will happen is if you could not finish med school for whatever reason - but if you have gotten this far from undergrad you should pass med school without any problems.

Once the banks release the funds to you, all you need to show to the bank is a yearly enrollment letter to attain student status and continue on with the bank loan. The cosigner is not in the picture at all.

[JohnGrisham]

The only possible way that will happen is if you could not finish med school for whatever reason - but if you have gotten this far from undergrad you should pass med school without any problems.

Once the banks release the funds to you, all you need to show to the bank is a yearly enrollment letter to attain student status and continue on with the bank loan. The cosigner is not in the picture at all.

Oh for sure - i more so meant a tragic unexpected event that would preclude one from attending school etc. God forbid such a thing would happen - I suppose I am just a bit more risk averse haha. 

 

Is there any particular reason why you have 3 LOCs though? I'm assuming 2 would already have been more than enough...? 

 

Of course feel free not to answer as that can be a private matter of a personal circumstance. 

[coastalslacker]

It really depends on the numbers.  Canadians at the US medical school I am affiliated with pay $60 or 70,000 per year.

 

Assume an average Canadian tuition of 20k per year.

 

60,000 US at current exchange rates is 72k Canadian, so the difference is 50,000 per year.

 

50,000 x 3 years (cause you're going south for one year in this scenario) minus one extra year in Canada (20k tuition, 20k living?) - so it costs you $110,000 more to stay in the States.

 

Then you have to factor in the interest you pay on that extra amount.  Some people pay down LOC in residency, but many don't.  Assume you do Internal and are a resident for 5 years and interest is 3-4% (hopefully!).  My rough calculations put you $150,000 (major "ish" factor here) more in the hole by staying in the US.

 

That would be $150,000 after tax, so if you pay 40% tax (assuming you work in Canada, less Stateside), it ends up a wash as long as you make $250,000 in that first extra year of work you would benefit from by staying in the US and getting done faster. 

 

Doing first year medicine a second time would suck.  Boring boring boring.

 

Good luck!

[JohnGrisham]

The benefit for me is that FM is 2 years in Canada and 3 years in the US. But your right that of if I were to choose a residency with same length then it may be less advantageous financially. At that point it would more so for being in Canada allowing my partner more flexibility for work.

[JohnGrisham]

Yikes 60-70k preconversion is a tough pill to swallow. I narrowed the schools down to 45-55k pre conversion.. Even that is making me nervous.

[rmorelan]

It really depends on the numbers.  Canadians at the US medical school I am affiliated with pay $60 or 70,000 per year.

 

Assume an average Canadian tuition of 20k per year.

 

60,000 US at current exchange rates is 72k Canadian, so the difference is 50,000 per year.

 

50,000 x 3 years (cause you're going south for one year in this scenario) minus one extra year in Canada (20k tuition, 20k living?) - so it costs you $110,000 more to stay in the States.

 

Then you have to factor in the interest you pay on that extra amount.  Some people pay down LOC in residency, but many don't.  Assume you do Internal and are a resident for 5 years and interest is 3-4% (hopefully!).  My rough calculations put you $150,000 (major "ish" factor here) more in the hole by staying in the US.

 

That would be $150,000 after tax, so if you pay 40% tax (assuming you work in Canada, less Stateside), it ends up a wash as long as you make $250,000 in that first extra year of work you would benefit from by staying in the US and getting done faster. 

 

Doing first year medicine a second time would suck.  Boring boring boring.

 

Good luck!

 

Not bad math

 

I would put the marginal tax rate a bit higher though - more like 45% if you want to take it all out in year one. Plus it is rather unrealistic that you will be taken everything out just for the loan (what are you living on ). Thus the total interest payment would be stretched slightly. You could argue paying it off that fast is not logical with the marginal rate etc but that is a longer story

 

Other issue is just to make sure those interest payments are not causing a cash flow crunch - you would have to be able to defer them like you are in the example. If you have to pay them as you go along (the loan goes into repayment) then it is a factor to consider.

 

if you do med school in the stats you can just do a 2 year family med residency here. You are still in the first round of carms with that.

 

Then there is of course family issues (are you travelling constantly back at a cost), and whether you emotionally will be happier here. Meh, a lot of factors.