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Ubc Sciences (With Scholarship) Or Mcmaster Health Sciences


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Hello! I'm a Gr.12 student in Vancouver currently deciding between UBC and McMaster Health Sciences. Since I live so close to UBC and received a scholarship from them, it would be much cheaper for me to stay here. Also, I've never actually had a chance to visit Hamilton before, so I'm not sure what to expect by moving so far away ._. 

 

As for McMaster Health Sciences, I know many people insist that a large % of students end up in med school and they try to teach you lots of valuable soft skills. But in the end, if I change my mind about med school, would McMaster Health Sciences still be an employable program for areas such as pharmaceuticals, biotech, research, etc? I think UBC seems to be stronger in most other fields and more renowned compared to McMaster (i.e. more opportunities if med school doesn't seem to be the right choice any more)? Or maybe it's just because many of my friends have never even heard of McMaster before xP

 

I have to decide very soon, so this is quite a desperate post (please don't judge me Q_Q) I really just want to get more insight from actual premeds so any advice would be greatly appreciated! :)

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Hello! I'm a Gr.12 student in Vancouver currently deciding between UBC and McMaster Health Sciences. Since I live so close to UBC and received a scholarship from them, it would be much cheaper for me to stay here. Also, I've never actually had a chance to visit Hamilton before, so I'm not sure what to expect by moving so far away ._. 

 

As for McMaster Health Sciences, I know many people insist that a large % of students end up in med school and they try to teach you lots of valuable soft skills. But in the end, if I change my mind about med school, would McMaster Health Sciences still be an employable program for areas such as pharmaceuticals, biotech, research, etc? I think UBC seems to be stronger in most other fields and more renowned compared to McMaster (i.e. more opportunities if med school doesn't seem to be the right choice any more)? Or maybe it's just because many of my friends have never even heard of McMaster before xP

 

I have to decide very soon, so this is a quite a desperate post (please don't judge me Q_Q) I really just want to get more insight from actual premeds so any advice would be greatly appreciated! :)

A UBC science degree wouldn't be any inherently better than a Mac health sci degree for the backups you mentioned. 

 

Did you get the major entrance scholarship? If its just the 2000 or 4000$ scholarship.. I wouldn't let that be the deciding factor compared to Mac.

 

However, you would be saving my living at home - if that is what you want to do, and being closer to your network, if that is also a consideration. 

 

Both will be fine, but it is going to be up to you to search out opportunities and get involved - the school choice itself won't make the difference in that realm.

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I just finished my first year of undergrad and I can honestly say it was really worth it to move away from home. I know that everyone here is usually really paranoid about marks and premed related things but I can't stress how much I've grown as a person (cliche) by moving away from home. I know if I had stayed at home I would've probably continued my high school routine for the next 4 years. If money isn't an issue, I'd argue in favour of moving away from home. Both schools are absolutely fantastic either way and great job getting accepted to both, I know that their admission averages are some of the highest in the country.

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Agreed that the school per se doesn't matter too much, I'm sure both programs could lead to interesting things. Yes, moving away kinda forces you to broaden your horizons, mature and adapt. Staying put could be a bit stagnant, if you let it. However, in BC you have the benefit of knowing local organizations, lower expenses (so more time to do other things), and an existing network, so you have the potential to get involved in some really interesting projects. You just have to push yourself to do so.

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tough choice, but given the scholarships + lower cost of staying (travel, moving, finding a place to live. all very good life experience but costly) + family support, I would stay in BC. as mentioned above, you could probably have similar opportunities as you would have in Hamilton if you push yourself . why don't you visit hamilton and decide for yourself (very diff city)!  :P

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I won't comment on cost.

 

What I would most consider is how you integrate into new social situations. Moving across the country is a big change and it's important to have an adequate support system around you when things get stressful with exams or you just want to do something fun. If you generally don't like new social situations and are very shy, it can be difficult being in a new environment and can ultimately affect how you perform academically. At the same time, being out of your comfort zone can often be a good thing. If you feel like you can overcome the change in geography and being in a new social environment, I think I would probably choose Mac Health Sci just looking at the statistics and gpa of the class in this program. Also, with so many small group projects, I think it might be easier to meet like-minded people. I think it would set you up well for future endeavours--even outside of medicine. In-course scholarships are always available for you to apply to, so hopefully that would help offset your decision regarding the scholarship at UBC.

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Hello! I'm a Gr.12 student in Vancouver currently deciding between UBC and McMaster Health Sciences. Since I live so close to UBC and received a scholarship from them, it would be much cheaper for me to stay here. Also, I've never actually had a chance to visit Hamilton before, so I'm not sure what to expect by moving so far away ._. 

 

As for McMaster Health Sciences, I know many people insist that a large % of students end up in med school and they try to teach you lots of valuable soft skills. But in the end, if I change my mind about med school, would McMaster Health Sciences still be an employable program for areas such as pharmaceuticals, biotech, research, etc? I think UBC seems to be stronger in most other fields and more renowned compared to McMaster (i.e. more opportunities if med school doesn't seem to be the right choice any more)? Or maybe it's just because many of my friends have never even heard of McMaster before xP

 

I have to decide very soon, so this is quite a desperate post (please don't judge me Q_Q) I really just want to get more insight from actual premeds so any advice would be greatly appreciated! :)

I honestly don't think you should have this be a factor in your decision making.

For example, 2 years ago the entire graduation class in pharmacology at UBC was accepted to medicine or dentistry. Really high % in physiology as well. This is because large % of the students (realistically everyone) in those majors (ubc pharm/physio, mcmaster health sci) are pre-meds and are usually quite smart. So if you are smart, you can get in med school from any of the programs and they all teach valuable skills depending on what you deem as 'valuable'. Students in Pharm/Physio say that 1st year medicine is almost like a review for them. There is a major called med lab where you basically learn all the different lab techniques, which definitely prepares you to become a competitive candidate for other jobs. Also current med school profs teach lectures in that major as well.

 

tl;dr both schools will offer valuable skills. 

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I honestly don't think you should have this be a factor in your decision making.

For example, 2 years ago the entire graduation class in pharmacology at UBC was accepted to medicine or dentistry. Really high % in physiology as well. This is because large % of the students (realistically everyone) in those majors (ubc pharm/physio, mcmaster health sci) are pre-meds and are usually quite smart. So if you are smart, you can get in med school from any of the programs and they all teach valuable skills depending on what you deem as 'valuable'. Students in Pharm/Physio say that 1st year medicine is almost like a review for them. There is a major called med lab where you basically learn all the different lab techniques, which definitely prepares you to become a competitive candidate for other jobs. Also current med school profs teach lectures in that major as well.

 

tl;dr both schools will offer valuable skills. 

To be fair though, the students that get into Pharm and physio at UBC are already at the top of the pack, and had to prove themselves to get strong grades in university level courses for 2 years.

 

Mac Health sci, you get in after high school - and has a large amount getting into med, because the program itself is geared towards prepping people for the health care field (and this means ensuring grades are doable).  

As for med lab... my good friend did that, and based on their opinion, if its not med or dent or PhD....most people would not want to go work as a lab tech - when you can do a quicker program at BCIT and end up in the same pay scale. 

 

I'm still pretty firm though, that if money is not an issue, Mac health sci right off the bat is a much better gaurantee, than having to ensure you are strong in the first 2 years of UBC general science to get into pharmacology or physio or medlab etc. 

 

But that is a moot point overall - as it's mostly dependent on the individual to seek out opportunities. 

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Wow! Thank you all so much for your time and genuine opinions :') I'm definitely leaning towards McMaster Health Sciences right now, because I do want to move out of my comfort zone and be more independent (hopefully it goes well ^_^). Also, I'm lucky enough to have parents who keep encouraging me to not put cost as the biggest deciding factor.

 

As for the comment about the skills offered at UBC vs. McMaster, I think UBC focuses more on academics (lab techniques, scientific knowledge, etc) while McMaster would focus more on things like communication and dealing with different people (correct me if I'm wrong haha). And I think the group work experience would be invaluable in any career.

 

But ultimately like you guys mentioned, it's up to me to develop personality, skills, build connections, and seek out different opportunities in either school. It's just that the average GPA and great support system at McMaster make it seem more doable to adjust and juggle different extracurriculars. 

 

Thanks again for everyone's input though, and good luck with whatever you're doing !! c: 

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Check out the linkedin profiles of past McMaster Health Science graduates. Most are either in medical school or went into other graduate and professional programs, including dentistry, law, pharmacy, etc. I would take this program in a heartbeat.

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It might be nice to get a change of scenery and also as others have said to be out of your comfort zone.

 

I don't think you should worry about which program will get you a job, as I believe the norm now a days is that it is much harder to get a job with a BSc. It's not the same way it used to be.

 

I would highly recommend visiting the Mcmaster campus though. This is something that I wish I had done when I was in grade 12.

I think some important factors to consider are student life, living situation in each city, and degree prep/course planning. I know not everyone does the course planning aspect, but I think it is important because if there are a group of courses that you definitely want to take that is offered at one school instead of the other, then that can be HUGE. I am most happiest when I am in the courses that I actually want to do. I mean, how great is it to study topics that you are fascinated by? I feel that way with a biopsych course that links physiology with behavior that I am in right now, and it is such an amazing feeling. I feel it is so important to pick courses that you like. When I was in grade 12, I thought that if I studied science at one school it would probably be similar at another canadian school, and though they are similar, they are not always the same. Take a look at course outlines at UBC and Mac if they are available. It is not so much a discrepancy between schools, as it is a discrepancy between professors and course content, and the difference between schools is just that school A has a certain professor who focuses on X while school B has a professor that focuses on Y.

Years 1 and 2 should be fairly similar, you should be looking at years 3 and 4 to see which school offers more of what you are interested in, or what you may be interested in. I know it can be overwhelming, but it is worth it.

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I'm a BHSc 2015 grad and I'll comment briefly on how the program might be different from the others

 

Yes you will get smaller class sizes, more prof/facilitator interaction and what some might call a more "exciting curriculum", but overtime I realized that these are just details and in end it doesn't matter much what the curriculum is like when you get down to the nitty gritty. You will always learn something good - forget the reputation of the undergraduate program, it doesn't mean much in Canada. Our public system just doesn't work that way and we don't operate on tiers. You go to a program to get a particular experience.

 

You'll learn lots of material at Mac and you'll learn lots of material at UBC.

 

What I think Mac health sci can give you that you won't get elsewhere besides the PBL is the social experience. In a lot of ways, it's like high school. Community is tight from year one and gets only closer. Cliques form. People date, dramas develop, people fight, gossip, joke, dine, etc etc. Some of it is good and some of it is bad. The academics will be very mixed with the social aspects, sometimes it can be stressful and you'll feel like you can't get away from the academics, especially in 3rd and 4th year when people begin applying to medicine and other professional programs. At others times, you'll find that you love how intermingled it is because it serves as a support network and it can be nice to have company. 

 

By the end of year 3 I could name and hold a conversation with just about everyone in the program. It helped me grow that way. 

 

I haven't been in other programs of course, but I would imagine you'd get a more isolated experience at other programs. You can seek out the same social experiences absolutely, but they won't be as salient in the structure of your specific program. You'd probably have to seek them out more proactively through other campus involvements. And by the way, that is not necessarily less preferred than the way things pan out at Mac health sci. It could very well be better for you. But it's just good to be aware of what Mac health sci looks like socially - it could inform your decision. And in the end, the experience is what you make it wherever you go.

 

About the curriculum, PBL was more interesting at the start but it's also soooooooooo exhausting when you have to do it all the time.  The last inquiry I took was a health economics inquiry, and the expectations were that I would find my own resources, own lecture series, readings and design my own research question to write an essay about a subject I've never done anything about before in my life. Sometimes, I'd think it would be way easier to just take a normal course and write the exam for it, but the idea behind inquiry is that you'll grow from the process of doing it all yourself. Some people would debate how efficient that is - so reflect on if you can forsee yourself benefiting from that type of academic experience. Of course the program isn't all inquiry (or majority), but it is certainly a large component. 

 

Anyway that's enough from me - let me know if there is more you would like to hear 

 

Edit: damn this was not as brief as I thought it would be

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To add up to what everyone had said. I was a McMaster science student but I saw that the health science students are happier and MUCH more closer to their community than science students. If you like people/group work and is somewhat extroverted, I think health science is definitely a better choice than any general science program. On top of that, health science students get A LOT of support to pursue medicine while a general science program might not be as supportive. In terms of the city, it is definitely crap, I would take Vancouver over Hamilton any day, but I am sure you will make friends in health sciences (which is a tight knit group) and enjoy mac. 

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That's another good point by peace2014, the social climate in the program caters to extroverted people. Same with the academic group work, you'll have an easier time voicing your opinion and dealing with conflict if you're extroverted.

 

But it could also be a good way to grow if you're challenged by other people's extroversion and you are a more introverted person.

 

As for the city, I was raised in Hamilton and I never knew what anyone was talking about when they said it was a dump. I lived on the mountain side though, which is the more affluent area along with Westdale, Dundas and Ancaster (which is where McMaster is located by the way). Hamilton is an interesting city in that respect. There are large socioeconomic gaps between small distances in geography. The life expectancy gap between mountain and inner core folks is 15 years.

 

At McMaster BHSc you'll get the opportunity to engage in that vulnerable community through upper year coursework if you so choose. The global and child health specializations will also give you a closer look. It's good to be aware though McMaster is removed from that area and the campus itself is in quite an affluent location.

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I think part of what makes health sci students so successful in the med school application process is because of the supportive community. It creates a positive environment where people are always willing to help each other out and answer each other's questions. Also you inevitably partake in more extracurriculars with close friends which encourages you to branch out a bit more into your hobbies and volunteering. The amount of collaboration that occurs during exam season, OMSAS application deadlines, and interview season is staggering. Just food for thought.

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I think part of what makes health sci students so successful in the med school application process is because of the supportive community. It creates a positive environment where people are always willing to help each other out and answer each other's questions. Also you inevitably partake in more extracurriculars with close friends which encourages you to branch out a bit more into your hobbies and volunteering. The amount of collaboration that occurs during exam season, OMSAS application deadlines, and interview season is staggering. Just food for thought.

 

And the negative aspect to that might be that there is more comparison among peers with regards to ECs, research, jobs, etc. The comparison piece can make it a challenging environment to be in because there are a lot of people who are ridiculously accomplished. Again, just trying to give as balanced and honest an opinion as possible - I personally valued this type of environment but it did have its stressors. 

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I'm a BHSc 2015 grad and I'll comment briefly on how the program might be different from the others

 

Yes you will get smaller class sizes, more prof/facilitator interaction and what some might call a more "exciting curriculum", but overtime I realized that these are just details and in end it doesn't matter much what the curriculum is like when you get down to the nitty gritty. You will always learn something good - forget the reputation of the undergraduate program, it doesn't mean much in Canada. Our public system just doesn't work that way and we don't operate on tiers. You go to a program to get a particular experience.

 

You'll learn lots of material at Mac and you'll learn lots of material at UBC.

 

What I think Mac health sci can give you that you won't get elsewhere besides the PBL is the social experience. In a lot of ways, it's like high school. Community is tight from year one and gets only closer. Cliques form. People date, dramas develop, people fight, gossip, joke, dine, etc etc. Some of it is good and some of it is bad. The academics will be very mixed with the social aspects, sometimes it can be stressful and you'll feel like you can't get away from the academics, especially in 3rd and 4th year when people begin applying to medicine and other professional programs. At others times, you'll find that you love how intermingled it is because it serves as a support network and it can be nice to have company. 

 

By the end of year 3 I could name and hold a conversation with just about everyone in the program. It helped me grow that way. 

 

I haven't been in other programs of course, but I would imagine you'd get a more isolated experience at other programs. You can seek out the same social experiences absolutely, but they won't be as salient in the structure of your specific program. You'd probably have to seek them out more proactively through other campus involvements. And by the way, that is not necessarily less preferred than the way things pan out at Mac health sci. It could very well be better for you. But it's just good to be aware of what Mac health sci looks like socially - it could inform your decision. And in the end, the experience is what you make it wherever you go.

 

About the curriculum, PBL was more interesting at the start but it's also soooooooooo exhausting when you have to do it all the time.  The last inquiry I took was a health economics inquiry, and the expectations were that I would find my own resources, own lecture series, readings and design my own research question to write an essay about a subject I've never done anything about before in my life. Sometimes, I'd think it would be way easier to just take a normal course and write the exam for it, but the idea behind inquiry is that you'll grow from the process of doing it all yourself. Some people would debate how efficient that is - so reflect on if you can forsee yourself benefiting from that type of academic experience. Of course the program isn't all inquiry (or majority), but it is certainly a large component. 

 

Anyway that's enough from me - let me know if there is more you would like to hear 

 

Edit: damn this was not as brief as I thought it would be

Super super helpful insights from an actual grad :') Thank you so much for willing to take the time and effort to do this !! 

 

And the negative aspect to that might be that there is more comparison among peers with regards to ECs, research, jobs, etc. The comparison piece can make it a challenging environment to be in because there are a lot of people who are ridiculously accomplished. Again, just trying to give as balanced and honest an opinion as possible - I personally valued this type of environment but it did have its stressors. 

I like the more social experience too, but I think I'm the type of person who's outgoing when I hang with outgoing people and shy when I hang around shy people LOOL.

People keep saying that around 60% of students end up in med school tho, so does that mean only the "ridiculously accomplished" people would get in? I just haven't heard of ANYONE who's going to healthsci and doesn't want to be a doctor...so what happens to the other 40% that doesn't do medicine? ._. Realistically, what other options do people consider? Also, do most students choose to do a 3-year or 4-year degree, and would doing a specialization automatically require 4 years? Thanks again for the help ^ ^

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Super super helpful insights from an actual grad :') Thank you so much for willing to take the time and effort to do this !! 

 

I like the more social experience too, but I think I'm the type of person who's outgoing when I hang with outgoing people and shy when I hang around shy people LOOL.

People keep saying that around 60% of students end up in med school tho, so does that mean only the "ridiculously accomplished" people would get in? I just haven't heard of ANYONE who's going to healthsci and doesn't want to be a doctor...so what happens to the other 40% that doesn't do medicine? ._. Realistically, what other options do people consider? Also, do most students choose to do a 3-year or 4-year degree, and would doing a specialization automatically require 4 years? Thanks again for the help ^ ^

 

I'm glad you find this helpful.

 

It's true that quite a few of us end up in medicine, and no it isn't just those who were extremely accomplished. As you go through the application process, you'll find that there is more to it than the seemingly objective measures of quality, like GPA, MCAT or accomplishments on the resume. One person who attracted a lot of people's admiration only got one invitation to interview this cycle - she had multiple pubs and even more abstracts and conference presentations a a 3rd year undergrad. Then others who had more average accomplishments were invited at multiple places in Ontario. There are a LOT of variables. Anyway, that is not important now. The answer to your question is no, it's not only those who seem to be on top of everything who succeed, and sometimes it can be the opposite.

 

Not all of us want to go into medicine, but yes the vast majority do. I can't put a number on it, but it isn't important. if you want to go to medicine from BHSc, you can do it. Or a variety of things. I know someone going to an ivy league law school (out of 3rd year), those going to John Hopkins for a masters program or those getting involved in research or global health. A BHSc degree in and of itself is useless (like most Bsc degrees, the exception being those with co-op programs in specialized topics), but there are lots of routes to take after it. 

 

I personally did a 3 year degree because I got accepted to medicine. If you get accepted to a professional school at the end of your third year, you're able to graduate with a 3Y, otherwise you return for your 4Y honours. As of now, around 35 people from my class (of 200) have been accepted to medicine, and that is in the first round of offers. Probably will be closer to 50ish when you take the waitlists into account. So to answer that question, around a quarter will do a 3Y program and the rest will finish the 4Y. I was in a specialization personally (child health), but that doesn't bind you to the 4Y program. It just means you won't receive the designation on your transcript when you're done after 3Y (if that happens to be the case). 

 

Happy to answer more. 

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Hello! I'm a Gr.12 student in Vancouver currently deciding between UBC and McMaster Health Sciences. Since I live so close to UBC and received a scholarship from them, it would be much cheaper for me to stay here. Also, I've never actually had a chance to visit Hamilton before, so I'm not sure what to expect by moving so far away ._. 

 

As for McMaster Health Sciences, I know many people insist that a large % of students end up in med school and they try to teach you lots of valuable soft skills. But in the end, if I change my mind about med school, would McMaster Health Sciences still be an employable program for areas such as pharmaceuticals, biotech, research, etc? I think UBC seems to be stronger in most other fields and more renowned compared to McMaster (i.e. more opportunities if med school doesn't seem to be the right choice any more)? Or maybe it's just because many of my friends have never even heard of McMaster before xP

 

I have to decide very soon, so this is quite a desperate post (please don't judge me Q_Q) I really just want to get more insight from actual premeds so any advice would be greatly appreciated! :)

 

Go for McMaster Health Sci. Its very good for almost any career in pharmacy, pharmaceuticals etc. Most people who know will know how good BHSc is, but even if they don't most people know that McMaster has a top health sci faculty or they just don't care about school rep. 

 

I think you need to take Mac Health Sci. UBC probably isn't the end of the world, but Mac Health Sci would make your life much easier. 

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