FutureDoc6666 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Hey Everyone, Does anyone know people who have successfully matched to ophtho and are willing to share the kinds of things that made them competitive? I am starting med school this Fall and want to be as prepared as possible. Any advice/guidance would be very much appreciated. Futuredoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uwopremed Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I am also debating ophthalmology (as well as plastics, derm and radiology) when I start med school this fall. From what I hear, there are several things that help. 1. Research. That's a no brainer. I've actually already done some work during my masters year in vision science research 2. Strategic Electives. One should heavily concentrate an elective or two is a somewhat less popular residency center (ie Queen's) instead of focusing on Toronto and UBC type schools. You may not be ranked in the top 5-10 still - but they may rank you middle enough such that when the top students take Toronto, UBC, etc - you squeeze your way into ophthalmology. TOO many ophthalmology keeners also heavily put their eggs into the Toronto basket. It's a big risk. 3. Connections and References. Obvious - but try to make connections and meaningful relationships with people in the know. 4. KNOW YOUR OPTHALMOLOGY during electives. As in - be prepared for ORs and medical ophthalmology clinics really well. Do no miss questions. 5. Try to win ophthalmology awards in medical school - most med schools do have these awards, and surprisingly they are easy to get if you focus on getting them. Ophthalmology is a great career - great hours, insane money, private sources of revenue. Probably the only specialty that gets paid like pro athletes - and you get to keep making that kind of money as long as you want. Getting OR time is the problem nowadays though. Several ophthalmologists in southern Ontario are involved in lawsuits with each other for precious cataract OR times - it's brutally competitive these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBronto2019 Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 I am also debating ophthalmology (as well as plastics, derm and radiology) when I start med school this fall. You seem very passionate about a certain specialty and don't care about money at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uwopremed Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 DoctaK Of course I do care about money and prestige. So does the vast majority of people in my class - even if they won't admit to it. But actions speak louder than words. I would say at least half the guys in my class are on Tinder - and most of them identify themselves at med students or have Western medicine outfits on in their pictures in a hope to hook up with as many undergrad girls as they can. Some have been very successful (though some of the less fortunate looking ones - not so much: being a med student can only compensate so much). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katakari Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 DoctaK Of course I do care about money and prestige. So does the vast majority of people in my class - even if they won't admit to it. But actions speak louder than words. I would say at least half the guys in my class are on Tinder - and most of them identify themselves at med students or have Western medicine outfits on in their pictures in a hope to hook up with as many undergrad girls as they can. Some have been very successful (though some of the less fortunate looking ones - not so much: being a med student can only compensate so much). How did you jump from "med student on tinder" to "hoping to hook up with as many undergrad girls as they can"? Thank you for providing closure on this topic almost a year later though. I was left in waiting for your comeback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mononoke Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 DoctaK Of course I do care about money and prestige. So does the vast majority of people in my class - even if they won't admit to it. But actions speak louder than words. I would say at least half the guys in my class are on Tinder - and most of them identify themselves at med students or have Western medicine outfits on in their pictures in a hope to hook up with as many undergrad girls as they can. Some have been very successful (though some of the less fortunate looking ones - not so much: being a med student can only compensate so much). lol you crack me up now I'm curious what you define as less fortunate looking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralk Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 DoctaK Of course I do care about money and prestige. So does the vast majority of people in my class - even if they won't admit to it. But actions speak louder than words. I would say at least half the guys in my class are on Tinder - and most of them identify themselves at med students or have Western medicine outfits on in their pictures in a hope to hook up with as many undergrad girls as they can. Some have been very successful (though some of the less fortunate looking ones - not so much: being a med student can only compensate so much). You're right, actions speak louder than words. Half of the people in your class will choose lower-paying, lower-prestige specialties, same as most medical school classes including Western's. I mean, I'm glad that you have the power to telepathically tell what people care about, even the things they won't admit to, but I think the tuning on that system might be a bit off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amichel Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 You're right, actions speak louder than words. Half of the people in your class will choose lower-paying, lower-prestige specialties, same as most medical school classes including Western's. I mean, I'm glad that you have the power to telepathically tell what people care about, even the things they won't admit to, but I think the tuning on that system might be a bit off... Also their intentions on tinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uwopremed Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 ralk: Considering even the low paying specialties earn way more than the average Canadian - I don't really understand your point. The 'prestige' and 'money' part was the aspect of getting into medicine. There is of course grades within medicine as well - ie ophthalmology > family medicine for pay. But family doctors, even with the recent whining on the concerned Ontario doctors FB page, still make pretty impressive money. It's just that by cutting the family teams, where GPs essentially doubled their income while halving their work, has led to a lot of anger. But the money and prestige are still pretty decent. And in regards to tinder - classmates have pics with stethescopes, white coats, MD specific backpacks, and even more blatant stuff indicating being in medicine. I can make judgment on that - it's tacky. But it is very widespread. As I know for a fact it is also in Ralk's class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 And in regards to tinder - classmates have pics with stethescopes, white coats, MD specific backpacks, and even more blatant stuff indicating being in medicine. I can make judgment on that - it's tacky. But it is very widespread. As I know for a fact it is also in Ralk's class. So, in other words, these guys are tools. Then again, that often goes with the territory for a certain cohort of pre-clerkship students. One day they too will learn about the glamour of getting 25 phone calls between 2 and 7am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Or the glamour of being puked on, bled on, peed on or pooped on (hell why not all 4), at 4 am on Christmas morning. I think by the time most people hit residency they try to hide (or at least not advertise) they are a physician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralk Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 ralk: Considering even the low paying specialties earn way more than the average Canadian - I don't really understand your point. The 'prestige' and 'money' part was the aspect of getting into medicine. There is of course grades within medicine as well - ie ophthalmology > family medicine for pay. But family doctors, even with the recent whining on the concerned Ontario doctors FB page, still make pretty impressive money. It's just that by cutting the family teams, where GPs essentially doubled their income while halving their work, has led to a lot of anger. But the money and prestige are still pretty decent. And in regards to tinder - classmates have pics with stethescopes, white coats, MD specific backpacks, and even more blatant stuff indicating being in medicine. I can make judgment on that - it's tacky. But it is very widespread. As I know for a fact it is also in Ralk's class. The point is that you defending your interest in 4 completely unrelated specialties that just happen to be higher-earning, higher-prestige by saying "but almost everyone in my class cares about money and prestige!" is a pretty poor defense. Sure, people care about these things, but not to that extent - most choose specialties with less prestige and less earning power. Even those that go into these fields, money and prestige are typically secondary considerations to the work itself - I don't know of anyone considering close to the mix of specialties you've listed. In that respect, you're presenting yourself as a clear outlier. Guess I can't really refute your claims about Tinder activity, I can't say I've spent any time checking out dudes' profiles (in my class, your class, or otherwise) on Tinder - I guess I'll defer to your apparent expertise on that subject. Doesn't mesh with what I know about the vast majority of the people in my class, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 I don't know of anyone considering close to the mix of specialties you've listed. In that respect, you're presenting yourself as a clear outlier. I don't think he's started med school yet and probably hasn't had much experience with any of them. So in his defense, it's less strange than if he was in 3rd year and liked that random grouping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uwopremed Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 The point is that you defending your interest in 4 completely unrelated specialties that just happen to be higher-earning, higher-prestige by saying "but almost everyone in my class cares about money and prestige!" is a pretty poor defense. Sure, people care about these things, but not to that extent - most choose specialties with less prestige and less earning power. Even those that go into these fields, money and prestige are typically secondary considerations to the work itself - I don't know of anyone considering close to the mix of specialties you've listed. In that respect, you're presenting yourself as a clear outlier. Guess I can't really refute your claims about Tinder activity, I can't say I've spent any time checking out dudes' profiles (in my class, your class, or otherwise) on Tinder - I guess I'll defer to your apparent expertise on that subject. Doesn't mesh with what I know about the vast majority of the people in my class, however. I was debating those 4 specialties several months before I even started medical school. After a few months and some observor-ships, I've reduced it to two, based on what I like. When I apply to CaRMS, I will likely apply to one as I only have so much elective time available - and might consider something easier to get into like Internal Medicine (which can be competitive too) as a backup with perhaps 1 internal elective and several strong selective choices within the internal block. Several people that started in my year were also interested in high earning specialties - but probably wisely didn't advertise it loudly. They do observorships in several of them - and then start honing in on a couple that still interest them. In fact - a lot of the 'keeners' are pretty secretive - but if one pays attention, they are already strongly gunning for top specialties by setting up research projects and even related employment for the summer. And the Tinder thing - it's real - and is pretty much something occurring at all medical schools in north america...or probably worldwide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 I've never met anyone seriously considering ophtho vs derm vs plastics vs rads. I can't say I've encountered many who are secretive about their interests either. Maybe it's something about Western... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralk Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 I was debating those 4 specialties several months before I even started medical school. After a few months and some observor-ships, I've reduced it to two, based on what I like. When I apply to CaRMS, I will likely apply to one as I only have so much elective time available - and might consider something easier to get into like Internal Medicine (which can be competitive too) as a backup with perhaps 1 internal elective and several strong selective choices within the internal block. Several people that started in my year were also interested in high earning specialties - but probably wisely didn't advertise it loudly. They do observorships in several of them - and then start honing in on a couple that still interest them. In fact - a lot of the 'keeners' are pretty secretive - but if one pays attention, they are already strongly gunning for top specialties by setting up research projects and even related employment for the summer. And the Tinder thing - it's real - and is pretty much something occurring at all medical schools in north america...or probably worldwide. I'm glad you've had a chance to refine and expand your specialty choices by including other criteria - but that's kind of the point, other criteria are far more important for most medical students when it comes time to make their specialty choices. Be careful of inferring intentions about money or prestige by specialty interest alone - a lot of pre-clerks have research projects in competitive specialties for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with putting a premium on either money or prestige. Many won't even end up in the specialties they're doing these research projects in. You say that 'keeners' are pretty secretive, though most of my classmates have been upfront about their specialty interests, even as those interests have changed. The reasons behind those interest might not be always out in the open for fear of judgment or whatever else, but that means that you only see a part of your classmates' decision-making processes too. If you're putting such a high preference towards money and prestige, what you hear from your classmates might be more a reflection of what they're willing to say around you than what has really led them to the specialties they're considering. Again, I'll take your word on the Tinder stuff. Though if you're truly gunning for a highly competitive specialty, might I suggest spending less time checking out medical students across North American on Tinder? It can't be easy to keep tabs on that many medical students' Tinder activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huron Posted April 8, 2016 Report Share Posted April 8, 2016 And the Tinder thing - it's real - and is pretty much something occurring at all medical schools in north america...or probably worldwide. ...or probably a few people doing this in every high paying or well respected specialty outside of medicine as well? Some guys flaunt there abs, some guys flaunt their trucks and some guys flaunt their careers; at the end of the day it's all the same and not something I would read all that deeply into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdubs Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Sooooo, if I may get back to questions about ophtho, I've been wondering whether schools care about when you publish. I'm considering ophtho (obviously not set yet though), and I have a couple of pubs in the field as well as in other fields (laser spectroscopy and, with a bit of luck, I may soon have a psych pub related to visual attention). I plan to do research in med school, of course, but I'm wondering if residency programs favour recent research more than past research? Also, are pubs in unrelated or only marginally related fields useful or neutral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
distressedpremed Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 I'm not sure what the right recipe is, and I don't think there are "set" things that may or may not make someone more or less competitive. In fact I think I'm even more unsure than I was before about what the secret recipe is. Maybe an ophthal resident can really chime in here and give some more focused advice. For instance, this one study here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25284095 shows that maybe the things that you worry about may not have that much importance. From the paper: "Research experience and volunteer experience were the only two of these eight areas in which the students as a whole had differed significantly from the faculty. Post hoc honestly significant differences (HSD) tests on the scores for research experience revealed that the students of 2013 significantly differed from the class of 2016 (p = 0.003) and faculty (p = 0.002). The students of 2016 and the faculty had similar scores (p = 0.775)....Students overestimated the importance of the interview, electives, letters of reference, personal letter, and research experience...In general, faculty demonstrated a guarded interest in candidates’ research and volunteer experience. Therefore, students should engage in research and volunteer activities that reflect and promote their academic and nonacademic interests." I know I'm cherry picking lines here and there, and obviously there are weakness in their sample population (one school vs all ophthal faculties in canada) as well as methodology. Maybe there is some validity to their results. I think there are some things that are highly probable to have "truth" to it. 1) Do some research, 2) Volunteer somewhere and 3) Don't raise any red flags if you can (failed courses, missing a year in-between pre clerkship and clerkship, etc, "professionalism" issues) on your MSPR. I think the finer details, are lost to variability and interpretation. For instance, does the person with 9 pubs somehow a better candidate than those who have 7? If you're not productive research wise in med school but you did a PhD, and you have papers anyway, does that make you less attractive than the guy without a PhD or MSc but published more than you did in a shorter number of years? Does being the "president" of some sort of club mean anything versus president of the CFMS? What about competing with people who didn't previously match and have done year-long fellowships with faculty? The neurotism just gets worse with time if you think about it too much. People are going to jive with certain personalities during elective more than others. Certain people will have opportunities to work with "ideal" preceptors versus others. Work as hard as you can, question why you're doing the things you're doing. Remember to stay healthy and manage your stress well. Remember to have fun in life. As you get closer and closer to the match, I think it's easy to obsess over the things you could or should have done, when in fact there are fewer and fewer things that you can control (ex. the perception of others on your behaviour or looks). PS: If you're not ready to suicide match, then be open to going for other things. I think you'll be less likely to be disappointed in the end, and there are a lot of things in medicine that are interesting and rewarding. If you are myopic about your interests, you might really run into a long-term wall in terms of your own personal health and happiness. If you are going to suicide match, then you have to live with the possibility that you may not be "as good" or prepared as you think you are and disappointment, no matter how small you think it is, is a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdubs Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 Thanks for the thorough reply, distressedpremed. I've definitely seen quite a few accounts here about matching being so unpredictable and exceptional candidates not getting matched at all. But still, the urge to try and find patterns is tempting. As for suicide matching: I very likely won't be doing that after everything I've read. I'd likely back up with something like neurology, as those two specialties would probably share quite a few electives and I'd ideally like to do a combination of those two anyway (of course, just speculating based on what I like/have worked in until now, med school might change my mind entirely once I get there). It'd be sweet if an ophtho resident/practitioner could chime in here as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edict Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 Ophtho is getting less competitive, this years applicant to place ratio was only 1.34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3change Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edict Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 Any reason why? I have no clue actually. In its place, Emerg has become more competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mononoke Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 Any reason why? The job situation in optho isn't too great especially for those who want to keep operating. You train to do surgical procedures but you don't get OR time to hone those skills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdubs Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 I'm not sure if that ratio is lower than usual, but I know that out of the surgical specialties, ophtho ended up with the highest percentage of unmatched people this year, even more than plastics (I don't have the source handy, but I remember that it was a very trustworthy one... The Match Book, maybe?). Plus, that ratio only includes applicants who interviewed (as far as I know), and not those who applied and were not offered an interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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