Pros And Cons Of Doing Medicine In The U.s.? (With Intent Of Practicing In Canada)

[OntarioHopefully]

Hi Everyone,

 

This will be my first application cycle applying to American schools. So far I have found a lot of useful information about the application process, school stats, when to apply, etc. However I haven't come across any information (or at least in terms that I understand) about what it means to do a MD in the States, and then come back to Canada.

 

Essentially, what are the pros and cons of doing medicine in the States with the hopes of coming back to practice in Canada? I could continue trying to pursue medicine in Canada for a few more years.. but so far past application cycles (2) have left me with 0 interviews (not the strongest cGPA). Are there certain residency/specialties that might be easier to secure in Canada as someone studying from the US? How will the Canadian system assess international applicants? How difficult is it to come back, what exactly does the process entail? Is this process based on how well one does in medical school, or on licensing exams?

 

I hope these questions don't come off as silly, just very new to considering this path. I really do want to practice in Canada one day, so if going to the U.S. is very "risky"/very hard to come back, I would rather hold off on this option for a few more years. Any insight/advice would be very appreciated!

[JohnGrisham]

Do some more searching and reading, there is plenty of information available.

If you do your USMD you have can do your residency through CaRMS in Canada or the US through NRMP. As a USMD, you would be considered a CMG in the CaRMS match - so theoretically no different. Anecdotally, as long as you do electives in Canada, you would be just fine for most specialties. Competitive specialities are competitive for everyone, so too many confounding factors. By doing this path,  you would be no different than anyone else who does residency in Canada.

If you stay in the US for residency, if you are on a j1 visa - you are bound by Health Canada's statement of need process and limitations on certain # of seats for some residencies. However, if you stay in the US for residency on H1B visa, then you aren't bound to that. Coming back after training, will depend on specialty, and you may have to do a few extra steps to make things align - but some provinces like Ontario and BC have programs in place to help US grads get to practicing.

Going to the US for your MD is not risky, the difficulty on practicing back in Canada will depend on a host of factors.

Many of your questions are easily answered with some small searches. Good luck.

[Robin Hood]

Hi Everyone,

 

This will be my first application cycle applying to American schools. So far I have found a lot of useful information about the application process, school stats, when to apply, etc. However I haven't come across any information (or at least in terms that I understand) about what it means to do a MD in the States, and then come back to Canada.

 

Essentially, what are the pros and cons of doing medicine in the States with the hopes of coming back to practice in Canada? I could continue trying to pursue medicine in Canada for a few more years.. but so far past application cycles (2) have left me with 0 interviews (not the strongest cGPA). Are there certain residency/specialties that might be easier to secure in Canada as someone studying from the US? How will the Canadian system assess international applicants? How difficult is it to come back, what exactly does the process entail? Is this process based on how well one does in medical school, or on licensing exams?

 

I hope these questions don't come off as silly, just very new to considering this path. I really do want to practice in Canada one day, so if going to the U.S. is very "risky"/very hard to come back, I would rather hold off on this option for a few more years. Any insight/advice would be very appreciated!

 

USMD = CMD.

You won't be considered as an IMG(international medical graduate).

 

However, to study in the US, you will need a lot of $$$...

[loodogg]

USMD = CMD.

You won't be considered as an IMG(international medical graduate).

 

However, to study in the US, you will need a lot of $$$...

Exactly, a huge factor is the $. 50k for tuition each year, plus the currency conversion, and living, really will add up to a crazy sum of money now.

[Edict]

It's basically money. That's about it and the USMLE as well, but studying for that is for your own good as well. 

[MD2B2019]

Exactly, a huge factor is the $. 50k for tuition each year, plus the currency conversion, and living, really will add up to a crazy sum of money now.

US$50K per year is for private schools, most public state universities MD school's tuition fees for Canadian are US$55~85K per year.

[mamba24]

Hi Everyone,

 

This will be my first application cycle applying to American schools. So far I have found a lot of useful information about the application process, school stats, when to apply, etc. However I haven't come across any information (or at least in terms that I understand) about what it means to do a MD in the States, and then come back to Canada.

 

Essentially, what are the pros and cons of doing medicine in the States with the hopes of coming back to practice in Canada? I could continue trying to pursue medicine in Canada for a few more years.. but so far past application cycles (2) have left me with 0 interviews (not the strongest cGPA). Are there certain residency/specialties that might be easier to secure in Canada as someone studying from the US? How will the Canadian system assess international applicants? How difficult is it to come back, what exactly does the process entail? Is this process based on how well one does in medical school, or on licensing exams?

 

I hope these questions don't come off as silly, just very new to considering this path. I really do want to practice in Canada one day, so if going to the U.S. is very "risky"/very hard to come back, I would rather hold off on this option for a few more years. Any insight/advice would be very appreciated!

 

I'm from Vancouver and go to school in the US.

 

Please read my original post on this topic. Applying to the US is the absolutely BEST decision you have made in your life. Congratulations and good luck. It's just unfortunate that you wasted nearly half a million dollars of future attending salary by the two years you wasted applying to Canada.

 

"What are the pros and cons of doing medicine in the States with the hopes of coming back to practice in Canada?"

Pros:

-You will actually have the opportunity to get an MD and practice medicine in Canada. Look, just like me, you have a low GPA and are now being stonewalled by pompous Canadian medical schools. Do what I did and APPLY EARLY and APPLY BROADLY to the US. I did this as a senior at UBC and despite my low (for a med school applicant) GPA I got in right away and wasted no time. I'll graduate next year at 25. I still have friends trying to get into Canadian schools and it's frustrating to see them get rejected again and again without trying the US.

-USMD = CMD in terms of how Canada assesses the USMD.

-All specialties are open to you. However, as Gohan said, competitive specialties are competitive specialties. You will have a tougher time matching to a competitive specialty, just like Canadian MDs have a tougher time matching to a competitive specialty. Go to the CARMS forum page and look at the list of competitiveness stats. You will have to do the same thing ALL med students do regardless of what country they study in to match to the top ones, i.e. do well on preclinicals, do well in third year, do well on aways, get research (abstracts/pubs), and get good letters. But just because you study at Yankee State University and not University of Moose doesn't affect your chances. The good thing is, unlike Canadian med students, you have the NRMP (US match) to fall back on as well. So let's say you go for EM and don't match to Canada, well, you'll likely match in the US (because there are WAY more spots), train here, then go back after that.

-It's not difficult at all to come back. I'm a rising 4th year (cool huh? I didn't waste any time and now I'm almost done), so I'll be entering the match in the next cycle and know all about the options. The process is straight forward, I don't know what to tell you. If you're dead-set on going back, then do an away or two in Canada (these are easy to set up) in a less competitive specialty. Then apply broadly in CARMS. You're in the same pool as Canadian grads. If you're even an average student, not a psychopath, and don't puke in your interviews, you'll match somewhere. If somehow you don't match, you will match in the NRMP. Then you'll have to spend 3-5 more years in the US. After your residency you may return to Canada and practice medicine but the process depends on the specialty and the province. Google it there are many posts on this but the bottom line is that you don't have to worry. Due to the equivalency of the degree, the licensing, and the training, you will be able to return home. The same cannot be said for medical degrees earned from other countries, the US is the ONLY one where it is basically the same as going to school in Canada.

 

Cons:

-$$$. Theoretically, you'll have more debt at the end of the day.

[loodogg]

US$50K per year is for private schools, most public state universities MD school's tuition fees for Canadian are US$55~85K per year.

Even worse then, 85k that's ridiculous 

[qszwdxefc]

$$$10char$$$

 

Another thing you have to consider is the interest. Even if you are able to secure a $300k+ loan you're looking at thousands of dollars in interest payments per month. Some schools make you pay for all 4 years up front, so you are looking at these payments right from the get go. And that's at our current historically low interest rates which are bound to go up one day.

[amichel]

I'm from Vancouver and go to school in the US.

 

Please read my original post on this topic. Applying to the US is the absolutely BEST decision you have made in your life. Congratulations and good luck. It's just unfortunate that you wasted nearly half a million dollars of future attending salary by the two years you wasted applying to Canada.

 

"What are the pros and cons of doing medicine in the States with the hopes of coming back to practice in Canada?"

Pros:

-You will actually have the opportunity to get an MD and practice medicine in Canada. Look, just like me, you have a low GPA and are now being stonewalled by pompous Canadian medical schools. Do what I did and APPLY EARLY and APPLY BROADLY to the US. I did this as a senior at UBC and despite my low (for a med school applicant) GPA I got in right away and wasted no time. I'll graduate next year at 25. I still have friends trying to get into Canadian schools and it's frustrating to see them get rejected again and again without trying the US.

-USMD = CMD in terms of how Canada assesses the USMD.

-All specialties are open to you. However, as Gohan said, competitive specialties are competitive specialties. You will have a tougher time matching to a competitive specialty, just like Canadian MDs have a tougher time matching to a competitive specialty. Go to the CARMS forum page and look at the list of competitiveness stats. You will have to do the same thing ALL med students do regardless of what country they study in to match to the top ones, i.e. do well on preclinicals, do well in third year, do well on aways, get research (abstracts/pubs), and get good letters. But just because you study at Yankee State University and not University of Moose doesn't affect your chances. The good thing is, unlike Canadian med students, you have the NRMP (US match) to fall back on as well. So let's say you go for EM and don't match to Canada, well, you'll likely match in the US (because there are WAY more spots), train here, then go back after that.

-It's not difficult at all to come back. I'm a rising 4th year (cool huh? I didn't waste any time and now I'm almost done), so I'll be entering the match in the next cycle and know all about the options. The process is straight forward, I don't know what to tell you. If you're dead-set on going back, then do an away or two in Canada (these are easy to set up) in a less competitive specialty. Then apply broadly in CARMS. You're in the same pool as Canadian grads. If you're even an average student, not a psychopath, and don't puke in your interviews, you'll match somewhere. If somehow you don't match, you will match in the NRMP. Then you'll have to spend 3-5 more years in the US. After your residency you may return to Canada and practice medicine but the process depends on the specialty and the province. Google it there are many posts on this but the bottom line is that you don't have to worry. Due to the equivalency of the degree, the licensing, and the training, you will be able to return home. The same cannot be said for medical degrees earned from other countries, the US is the ONLY one where it is basically the same as going to school in Canada.

 

Cons:

-$$$. Theoretically, you'll have more debt at the end of the day.

 

When you apply for residency, maybe don't let the Canadian schools know how pompous you think they are. 

 

Also, I think "an average student, not a psychopath, and don't puke in your interviews"  is an pretty unfair characterization of the perfectly nice and competent Canadian grads who don't match every year. 

 

You're right though, you also have the option of NRMP.  

 

Additionally, I think you're minimizing the hoops that must be jumped to return to Canada for certain specialties due to different residency lengths (Like EM, the example you gave). 

[3change]

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[JohnGrisham]

Get an h1b visa and you're fine. Or j1 waiver to work in a rural/underserved area.