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50 Cmg Pgy1 Spots Being Slashed Over The Next Two Years.


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derm lost one, prob because of the job mrkt

 

and more path spots. nice. more imgs.

 

Yeah, the Derm cut doesn't make too much sense to me, but there might have been a rationale specific to the program for that cut.

 

And where did you see more path spots? Everything I've seen puts the number down from last year, both in Ontario and across Canada.

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Ok, here's the full list, best as I can tell (definitely a possibility for some errors here, but I've tried to be careful):

 

Western - 1 Emerg, 1 IM, 1 Neuropathology, 1 OBGYN, 1 FM (added 1 Psych)

Toronto - 1 Derm, 1 Gen Surg, 4 IM, 1 Neurology, 1 OBGYN, 1 Psych (added 1 Rads, 1 Lab Medicine, 2 Ortho, 7 FM)

Ottawa - 1 Medical Microbio, 2 Neurosurg, 1 OBGYN, 1 Ophtho, 1 ENT, 1 PM&R (added 1 Peds)

NOSM - No reductions (added 4 FM, 1 Psych) 

 

McMaster's and Queen's numbers are still approximate now that I look at them, and so can't derive anything from those numbers yet. Both NOSM and Toronto actually gained spots... not a surprise with NOSM, that was announced, but a bit unexpected from Toronto. They did switch mostly from Royal College positions to FM positions, so that's positive at least. Overall the net change this year appears to be less than the 25 CMG spots advertised, and are weighted more towards programs with poor job markets than to specialties where there is a clear demand for additional physicians. Still not a good thing, but much less concerning than the original announcement, from what I can see.

Mcmaster will not have any cuts this year as they previously reduced their number of spots the year before. 

No cuts will be made to NOSM.

Queens is expected to have cuts. 

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Yeah, the Derm cut doesn't make too much sense to me, but there might have been a rationale specific to the program for that cut.

 

And where did you see more path spots? Everything I've seen puts the number down from last year, both in Ontario and across Canada.

 

1 path spot in toronto is added. makes no sense. they have a big enough program. the job market is terrible. are they hoping to get more forensics? thats a stupid move. 

 

same with adding ortho. probably to cover call schedules. job market is bad. makes no sense. 

 

you probably missed it because pathology is the beast with multiple stupid-sounding names, lab medicine is one of them.

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1 path spot in toronto is added. makes no sense. they have a big enough program. the job market is terrible. are they hoping to get more forensics? thats a stupid move. 

 

same with adding ortho. probably to cover call schedules. job market is bad. makes no sense. 

 

you probably missed it because pathology is the beast with multiple stupid-sounding names, lab medicine is one of them.

 

Gotcha. On the whole though, pathology doesn't appear to be up in numbers.

 

I agree, the Ortho spots don't make much sense. From what I hear, the individual schools were responsible for determining the distribution of cuts, while the Ministry set the number, and what might makes sense for an individual school isn't always what makes sense for the province as a whole. I'm glad that FM seems largely spared and that surgical specialties with poor job markets are eating some of the cuts, but the rationale behind some of the adjustments isn't entirely clear from an outsider's perspective.

 

Mcmaster will not have any cuts this year as they previously reduced their number of spots the year before. 

No cuts will be made to NOSM.

Queens is expected to have cuts. 

 

Well, that reduces the overall cuts this year at least. From 25 originally announced cuts, the balance might be below 15, which is much more manageable.

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There is at least 1 year of ortho waiting list for scoliosis correction in ped, I can't imagine for the joint replacement

I wonder about the politics surrounding ortho spots. I'd think cutting spots there would make them look bad to the public since everyone knows something waiting for a joint replacement.

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Like people have said, the spots were probably decided in the same way that the distrabution of IMG spots are decided. The government tells each school it will have x IMG seats (or CMG cuts in this case). It's then up to the university to figure out what programs they want those things to apply to. The schools don't really have an interest (or the necessary info) to assign those seats based on provincial or national projected needs. As a result, they assign them based on current local factors (one program is already to "big" so they can lose seats, another program is too "busy" so add some over there) without considering future manpower issues. 

 

Welcome to Canadian healthcare manpower planning. By which I mean, there is none.

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Ok, here's the full list, best as I can tell (definitely a possibility for some errors here, but I've tried to be careful):

 

Western - 1 Emerg, 1 IM, 1 Neuropathology, 1 OBGYN, 1 FM (added 1 Psych)

Toronto - 1 Derm, 1 Gen Surg, 4 IM, 1 Neurology, 1 OBGYN, 1 Psych (added 1 Rads, 1 Lab Medicine, 2 Ortho, 7 FM)

Ottawa - 1 Medical Microbio, 2 Neurosurg, 1 OBGYN, 1 Ophtho, 1 ENT, 1 PM&R (added 1 Peds)

NOSM - No reductions (added 4 FM, 1 Psych) 

 

McMaster's and Queen's numbers are still approximate now that I look at them, and so can't derive anything from those numbers yet. Both NOSM and Toronto actually gained spots... not a surprise with NOSM, that was announced, but a bit unexpected from Toronto. They did switch mostly from Royal College positions to FM positions, so that's positive at least. Overall the net change this year appears to be less than the 25 CMG spots advertised, and are weighted more towards programs with poor job markets than to specialties where there is a clear demand for additional physicians. Still not a good thing, but much less concerning than the original announcement, from what I can see.

 

Edit: CaRMS report had a transcription error in the table I looked at, Toronto didn't gain 7 FM spots

 

wtf they cut a derm lmao

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Like people have said, the spots were probably decided in the same way that the distrabution of IMG spots are decided. The government tells each school it will have x IMG seats (or CMG cuts in this case). It's then up to the university to figure out what programs they want those things to apply to. The schools don't really have an interest (or the necessary info) to assign those seats based on provincial or national projected needs. As a result, they assign them based on current local factors (one program is already to "big" so they can lose seats, another program is too "busy" so add some over there) without considering future manpower issues. 

 

Welcome to Canadian healthcare manpower planning. By which I mean, there is none.

 

In fairness, from the results and hearing from some school representatives, they did try to take job market considerations into account. Ottawa in particular seems to have made largely sensible, market-conscious cuts. But you're right, there are other considerations and no real incentive for schools to adjust to the job market, which is why some of the lost spots are questionable or confusing.

 

We'll see what happens next year... if it is IMG spots getting cut, the bulk of those exist in FM/IM/Psych/Peds. Will programs be willing to cut what is often a lone IMG spot in a specialty with a poor job market, or will they try to protect them at the expense of the larger, more employable specialties? The flexibility to consider the job market might be lower next time around.

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