In-Province-Residency For Med/dent (My Experience)

[amichel]

My argument: The best (wo)man gets the job.

 

And based on that...therefore, you're saying we shouldn't have the best and brightest, regardless of location get to the medical schools? And also, you're saying we should let the less competitive applicants get advantages? Why?

 

Also, how is not allowing the best person for the job not subtly screwing the system out of potential advantages? You could say that "above a threshold it doens't matter", but realistically, why woudn't you want the best candidate? I don't see a justification for allowing a less competitive applicant advantage for no good reason. Aboriginals, etc. as mentioned, are given advantages on legitimate grounds.

 

If you could kindly clarify your clarification, it would be greatly apprecaited.

No, because the best candidate is one who will make a competent physician who is likely to stay in said province. That's why in province policies exist.

 

And yah, above a threshold it doesn't matter because above said threshold there's really no way to predict who will be the best physician.

 

Not sure why I got into this again. Oh well.

[alsdjflks]

 

[amichel]

I explained above that just because an OOP gets iP status, doesn't mean there will be a shortage of physicians later on when the OOPs supposedly "desert" the province. Supply and demand will balance out the location of physicians for most major areas.

 

And if there is no way to predict above a threshold, why wouldn't you just start with the best person at the undergraduate level? What harm is there in picking the person with high GPA, high MCAT, and great ECs? And conversely, what benefit is there to picking someone wiht lower numbers/ecs if there's no way to predict who's going to be better? The logic doesn't add up.

 

 

And yea, you're right. I see too many threads on here go south. Best to just end this before it becomes inane.

Supply and demand only works for fields where there are a finite number of jobs. Not family med. As long as people from Vancouver and Toronto can still open up an office and compete for patients, they will. Thus the issue.

[_ _]

My argument: The best (wo)man gets the job.

 

And based on that...therefore, you're saying we shouldn't have the best and brightest, regardless of location get to the medical schools? And also, you're saying we should let the less competitive applicants get advantages? Why?

 

Also, how is not allowing the best person for the job not subtly screwing the system out of potential advantages? You could say that "above a threshold it doens't matter", but realistically, why woudn't you want the best candidate? I don't see a justification for allowing a less competitive applicant advantage for no good reason. Aboriginals, etc. as mentioned, are given advantages on legitimate grounds. 

 

If you could kindly clarify your clarification, it would be greatly apprecaited. 

As someone who grew up without EVER having a family doctor, I see it differently. 

 

If the perfect GPA person from Toronto wanted to come to rural towns, then great. But they don't, understandably so. So my province admits less competitive, perhaps, students from the area. Naturally, more of these students stay and work in the area. Giving more families a doctor. 

So no, I don't want the 'best' candidates. I want the candidate who will work in the areas like my hometown, because those 4.0 students don't do us much good when they are half a country away and 20 years later, my family still can't find a family doctor. 

 

Disagree if you want, but it's been shown time and time again that most people aren't going to pack up and move to some remote underserved area of the country randomly upon graduation. So you think that it isn't important that your suggestion would leave rural communities even less able to access healthcare? 

[PurpleS]

What is the point of recruiting the "best and brightest" physicians if at the end of the day, those physicians leave and you get no physicians at all?

 

The IP/OOP way may not be the most ideal, but it's the best one that works so far. When there is a better way to ensure that future physicians practice where they are trained, then I'm sure the system will move towards that method.

[alsdjflks]

 

[amichel]

As I said to Amichel when he/she missed what I said - the supply/demand factor will force people to work where there IS work. If everyone goes to Ontario after graduating from Alberta/Saskatchewan, there will be higher paying jobs in Alberta and Saskatchewan because of shortages, which will naturally lure a segment of the physicians back.

 

In any event, since this is the 3rd or 4th time I've had to repeat myself, I'll be letting you guys carry the discussion after this post.

Umm, I answered you. That doesn't work, obviously, or there wouldn't be physician shortages in Saskatchewan, for example.

[PurpleS]

Don't they also have incentive programs to get more physicians to work in rural areas? Yet there are still shortages there...

[Thermophilus]

They're having success with efforts that introduce matriculants to the reality of rural practice by having rural rotations and skills days.

 

Also, there seems to be a move in Alberta towards getting different specialists out to rural areas by funding resource intensive procedures--the bottleneck to my understanding in ortho is OR time. A great example of this is the amazing orthopaedics team and work going on in Westlock/Barrhead.

 

Hopefully moves and initiatives like this continue to address an obvious issue facing many Canadians. Speaking of.. the gold medal game is starting; gotta go.

[StriveP]

StriveP, did you say that you did not interview at any Ontario medical schools, but received interviews at Harvard and Columbia??

 

This is not meant to be confrontational by any means, I'm just genuinely curious. I've heard some of my friends joke about medical school admissions in Canada being tougher than Ivy league schools.. but never took it seriously.

 

To be blunt, American schools are tougher to get better grades. But Canadian schools are tougher to get into. I know this because I have a lot of friends in  Canadian and American medical/dental schools. 

[JohnGrisham]

To be blunt, American schools are tougher to get better grades. But Canadian schools are tougher to get into. I know this because I have a lot of friends in Canadian and American medical/dental schools.

Tougher to get good grades in undergrad or med/dent school?

 

I know this to be the opposite from all my friends who did exhange in the US...n=6 personally. But then again there is so much variability across the US that neither of us can make broad claims one way or the other.

[StriveP]

Tougher to get good grades in undergrad or med/dent school?

 

I know this to be the opposite from all my friends who did exhange in the US...n=6 personally. But then again there is so much variability across the US that neither of us can make broad claims one way or the other.

 

I'm talking about doing well in medical or dental schools in the US, they use the following scale:

94%+ = A (4.0)

90 to 94% = A- (3.7)

87 to 90% = B+ (3.3)

83 to 87% = B (3.0)

 

That's what a few friends were telling me who are Canadians studying in the US. Obviously the scale varies from school to school but normally that's the standard scale ^

[JohnGrisham]

I'm talking about doing well in medical or dental schools in the US, they use the following scale:

94%+ = A (4.0)

90 to 94% = A- (3.7)

87 to 90% = B+ (3.3)

83 to 87% = B (3.0)

 

That's what a few friends were telling me who are Canadians studying in the US. Obviously the scale varies from school to school but normally that's the standard scale ^

Sure, but thats honestly not very relevant. I'm guessing the average at those schools is a B+, so 87-90%. In Canada the average would probably also be a B+ (76-80). So functionally they aren't different at all.

 

I can gaurantee that the students in the US with the higher numerical range for their B+ aren't somehow that much smarter or doing better than the Canadian counterparts. 

 

It's analagous to undergrad in many ways, undergrad in the US uses similiar scales. But if you look at it from a relative perspective of mean and S.D's it works out to be the same.  

 

It's not any "harder".  Just that the numerical scale is higher in the US, based on how they tend to do things there.

[StriveP]

Sure, but thats honestly not very relevant. I'm guessing the average at those schools is a B+, so 87-90%. In Canada the average would probably also be a B+ (76-80). So functionally they aren't different at all.

 

I can gaurantee that the students in the US with the higher numerical range for their B+ aren't somehow that much smarter or doing better than the Canadian counterparts. 

 

It's analagous to undergrad in many ways, undergrad in the US uses similiar scales. But if you look at it from a relative perspective of mean and S.D's it works out to be the same.  

 

It's not any "harder".  Just that the numerical scale is higher in the US, based on how they tend to do things there.

 

The average is usually ~75 to 80% (C to C+/B-) for courses when you are in medical and dental school in the US... which is the same average you will expect at Canadian schools except you get a lower letter grade. In short, it's the same difficulty level to get the same %, but at American schools you get a lower GPA for the same % because of their scale. But I think you get my point

[abyss1]

I just had a question for UBC schools are fairly competitive, so wouldn't University of Manitoba be the best option currently?

[bruhh]

I just had a question for UBC schools are fairly competitive, so wouldn't University of Manitoba be the best option currently?

Takes 2 years to become a Manitoban resident, whereas it only takes around 6 months to get your BC care card. Manitoba would definitely be less competitive than UBC but I guess it depends on how long you're willing to stay in the province for residency. I still think Alberta is the best option as it has 2 medical schools.

[JohnGrisham]

Takes 2 years to become a Manitoban resident, whereas it only takes around 6 months to get your BC care card. Manitoba would definitely be less competitive than UBC but I guess it depends on how long you're willing to stay in the province for residency. I still think Alberta is the best option as it has 2 medical schools.

This. Manitoba takes longer.

 

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean manitoba is less competitive. They don't really consider ECs as far as I know, which is HUGE for UBC.  So that means you need to have a really high gpa and MCAT generally to make interview cut-offs. But i gather IP at mantioba is probably easier in that regard than UBC.

[bruhh]

This. Manitoba takes longer.

 

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean manitoba is less competitive. They don't really consider ECs as far as I know, which is HUGE for UBC. So that means you need to have a really high gpa and MCAT generally to make interview cut-offs. But i gather IP at mantioba is probably easier in that regard than UBC.

Yea but if you have a higher GPA and decent MCAT you're pretty much guaranteed. With UBC, the EC part is pretty subjective and leaves out uncertainties. If you have a good GPA and MCAT and willing to stay for the 2 years, Manitoba would be a pretty damn good option. Although, if you got a high GPA and MCAT I don't see why it wouldn't work out in Ontario anyway!

[abyss1]

Yea but if you have a higher GPA and decent MCAT you're pretty much guaranteed. With UBC, the EC part is pretty subjective and leaves out uncertainties. If you have a good GPA and MCAT and willing to stay for the 2 years, Manitoba would be a pretty damn good option. Although, if you got a high GPA and MCAT I don't see why it wouldn't work out in Ontario anyway!

 

The way the University of Manitoba calculates the GPA is beneficial in some cases, because they use the 4.5 scale. So depending on your grades, it could be higher in Manitoba compared to Ontario. 

[JohnGrisham]

Yea but if you have a higher GPA and decent MCAT you're pretty much guaranteed. With UBC, the EC part is pretty subjective and leaves out uncertainties. If you have a good GPA and MCAT and willing to stay for the 2 years, Manitoba would be a pretty damn good option. Although, if you got a high GPA and MCAT I don't see why it wouldn't work out in Ontario anyway!

Definitely, just really depends on an individuals specific profile. Someone who is lower in the stats fields, but stronger in ECs, would likely have better odds at a school like UBC over manitoba etc.

[starbright]

On 8/22/2015 at 8:38 PM, StriveP said:

 

It's difficult to compare the overall admission rate in Ontario to BC because most schools in ontario doesn't even reserve any seats for Ontario students and you can have mediocre stats and still gain admission to UBC, Alberta, and UofC med. Just to clear this up Queens, UofT, Western, and Ottawa doesn't reserve any seats for Ontario students. So you can't compare the "OVERALL admission rate in Ontario" to BC. The only school that gives Ontario an advantage is McMaster which receives 5000 applicants with 200 seats (90% reserved for out of province).  

 

And using % interview is probably the best measure because getting an interview in Ontario is much more difficult than west coast schools since they Ontario schools don't look at ECs as heavily. It's mainly about GPA and MCAT cutoff scores. And it's a universal method of comparing because after the interview stage, it's all up to the applicants performance and every school has an interview process. I hope that helps.

 

Oh just for kicks, this is what The Association of Faculties of Medicine of Canada had to say on page 1:

" For those applicants who are free to move to any location where a place may be offered, chances of success in gaining admission may be considerably enhanced. Those who apply to only one faculty of medicine have the smallest chance of being offered admission " Source: https://www.afmc.ca/pdf/AdmissionRequirementsfor2015_en.pdf

Okay, THANK you so much for this!
I am wondering if you have information after med school.

If I studied in Alberta/BC for med school, would I:
(1) have to do my residency in AB/BC? or could I do my residency back home in ON?
(2) After I finish my residency, regardless of where I am, can I practice in ON? (Or what do I have to do to do so?)

I am looking to practice psychiatry/ neuropsychiatry after all is said and done. (I am still learning the world of professional school, and what's to come, so any information is greatly appreciated!)